Reports of sharp drop in Latin community business

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm a bit confused as to what Restored2x said that inspired this diatribe.

He wants a "civilized" discussion about events that are harming real people; I think a little passion is in order.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


if getting rid of the illegals does "harm" to tulsa, then I say lets get busy with the harming.

Tulsa suffers and the country continues on, business as usual.  That's a steep price to pay for a town that is struggling.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Weather has cost us over $24,000 in lost revenues from one location due to rain causing cancellations of 12 events there.  Also cost the concessionaires another $6,000 in lost revenue from sales of concession items, which where not purchased for resale.  

Cost me $3,600 in income alone thus far this season, having select dates on my schedule canceled.  

I relate to and agree with the weather causing lack of work/income and spending.  It has affected me and several of our staff directly.

Facts and Common sense....God &amn I hate that....

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm a bit confused as to what Restored2x said that inspired this diatribe.

He wants a "civilized" discussion about events that are harming real people; I think a little passion is in order.

I don't think passion negates civility.

[Hometown]

No, and you have been and always are "civil" Sgrizzle.  But a lot of folks have not been and a little talk back from Mr. Little's perspective is overdue.

I question how many people can really leave Tulsa.  It is not easy for working people to pick up and move.  I think a lot of people may be afraid and staying at home.  That might eventually lead to pent up demand.  I'm not confident a large number of people have actually been able to leave.  I do have the impression that rumors are rampant in the community and there is a lot of fear.  You don't want a situation where people are afraid to talk to the police.

[Double A]

I think Chicken Piddle should stop squawkin' and start walking. Vote with your feet and join your amigos on the amnesty train to a sanctuary city somewhere else. Better hurry, it's about to pull out of the station. Wages are going up(minimum wage increase took effect) and wage depressing illegal workers are leaving in droves. You're doing fine Oklahoma. We might even stop seeing headlines like this:                                                             Immigrant jailed in sex case



Daniel Ramirez: He avoided being turned over to immigration officials.



By LEIGH BELL World Staff Writer
7/20/2007

A man in the country illegally is accused of molesting a 16-year-old boy at a swimming pool.


An illegal Mexican immigrant was in jail Thursday after being arrested the day before on a complaint of sexual battery against a 16-year-old boy at a community swimming pool, according to the Tulsa Police Department.

It's the second time the same man has been in jail on sex complaints, but he somehow avoided being turned over to immigration officials the first time.

Daniel P. Ramirez, 39, has a detainer from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which means this time he could face deportation after the criminal complaint is resolved.

Federal immigration officials confirmed Thursday that Ramirez is in the country illegally.

Ramirez touched the victim's "buttocks and chest without consent," and the man "was touching his genitals through clothes while talking to victim," according to the police department's arrest report.

The victim did not appear to know Ramirez, a police spokesman said Thursday.

The arrest report shows Ramirez lives in Broken Arrow and works for a Tulsa contractor.

Ramirez was arrested Wednesday afternoon in the area of 7200 S. Atlanta Ave., where he was working on a nearby house, according to police records.

He was booked into jail at 5:20 p.m. on a single sexual battery complaint and out standing court costs related to a previous encounter with the law, according to jail records.

Ramirez was charged less than two years ago with first-degree burglary and sexual battery against an adult female in Broken Arrow, said Maj. Mark Irwin of the Broken Arrow Police Department.

But court records show Ramirez was only convicted for trespassing, a misdemeanor.

Records at the time of the 2005 arrest do not indicate an effort was made to determine the immigration status of Ramirez, Irwin said.

Immigration officials said Thursday there was "no record of a 2005 conviction of this alien."

Immigration checks were not done in the Tulsa County Jail, as they are now, when Ramirez was booked there in August 2005, said Chief Deputy Tim Albin of the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.

The Sheriff's Office took over jail operations July 1, 2005, and did not begin its current practice of checking immigration status until several months later, Albin said.

Ramirez was being held on a $2,717.40 bond.

"He won't go anywhere until his charges are either resolved or he bonds out and is turned over to ICE (immigration officials)," Albin said.

Illegal immigrants convicted of aggravated felonies are subject to immediate deportation after any related prison sentence is served.

Ramirez approached the 16-year-old victim and made inappropriate statements, according to a police report.

Later, the teenager saw Ramirez near a community pool talking with several young boys, the report says.

"The teenager went over to the suspect, at which time the suspect made inappropriate contact with the victim," according to the report.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Weather has cost us over $24,000 in lost revenues from one location due to rain causing cancellations of 12 events there.  Also cost the concessionaires another $6,000 in lost revenue from sales of concession items, which where not purchased for resale.  

Cost me $3,600 in income alone thus far this season, having select dates on my schedule canceled.  

I relate to and agree with the weather causing lack of work/income and spending.  It has affected me and several of our staff directly.

Facts and Common sense....God &amn I hate that....

And yet many communities that had the same or worse weather, like OKC...had increases in sales tax revenue. damn those facts and that common sense.

[iplaw]

But if this is really from, as Bollweevil says:

quote:The new immigration law in Oklahoma.

we should see an overall state decrease and not isolated changes in revenue from town to town.  I would imagine that OKC has as many, if not more, Latino businesses than Tulsa...

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

But if this is really from, as Bollweevil says:

quote:The new immigration law in Oklahoma.

we should see an overall state decrease and not isolated changes in revenue from town to town.  I would imagine that OKC has as many, if not more, Latino businesses than Tulsa...

i agree. There is more going on than weather and exiting Hispanics. Each contributed but to what extent, is guessing. I suppose it will take more than one month of figures to see what's really happening.

[Conan71]

Waterboy,

That's the fallacy in the supposition that the new immigration laws are causing sales tax revenue to fall in Tulsa.  

We have new state-wide laws on immigration, not just Tulsa's enforcement.  The labor part of the law penalizing employers came out of our legislature in OKC and is state-wide in scope, not just Tulsa.

Illegal immigrants and employers in OKC are facing the same issue, yet their revenue is up.

I'd say there are a lot of seasonal issues at play.  It will be interesting to see the August and September figures.  Maybe someone will be kind enough to publish those figures as they come out.

[Wrinkle]

I suspect that on top of weather and illegal exitgration, June-July is pretty typically a big vacation period, particularly with those with school-age kids. With all the weather, many plans probably changed to a time when weather and/or gas might be more favorable. Probably lost out in both regards, however.

Pent up demand for lake time, too.
Then, there were the two 'Woodstock' type events up at Pryor, and other out of town events.

All of which removes people/money from the local.

We might also consider the following:

       July 2007      $16,720,350.xx (via TW)
   July 2006      $16,934,815.77   +$1,531,558.08 (+9.94%)
   July 2005      $15,403,257.69


So, the question may really be why was last year so good?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

I think Chicken Piddle should stop squawkin' and start walking. Vote with your feet and join your amigos on the amnesty train to a sanctuary city somewhere else. Better hurry, it's about to pull out of the station. Wages are going up(minimum wage increase took effect) and wage depressing illegal workers are leaving in droves. You're doing fine Oklahoma. We might even stop seeing headlines like this:                                                             Immigrant jailed in sex case

That's right Double A, immigrants are just a bunch of job-stealing pedophiles bent on destroying this perfect system...whatever, man.  Seems like half the time you care about the working man, and the other half you're demonizing him.  At any rate, when you get your new sig, I don't think it should include Woody Guthrie.  

A handful of lazy, bigoted, corrupt politicians found a way to give it all away to the robber barons and still blame brown-skinned, foreign-tongued devils for all our nation's woes...so, what else is new?  Once upon a time, there were people who could see through all of that.

Forget all of that for a minute and explain to me how Tulsa is supposed to prosper when every other city in the country will continue to compete with illegal labor?  Those "amnesty" cities you deride are...uh...everybody.

Just what exactly have you "solved"?  And if this exodus does end up hurting Tulsa, are you willing to share responsibility for it?

If your goal was to get brown people out of your field of vision, then congrats, mission accomplished.  But if you really want to help the working man, I can't see how you've helped.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

I think Chicken Piddle should stop squawkin' and start walking. Vote with your feet and join your amigos on the amnesty train to a sanctuary city somewhere else.

It happens more often than you think, folks leaving Tulsa.  That's how we lost a US representative, Okies multiply like rabbits then flee for more sane, more economically stable, pastures.

Good thing we've got Hispanics to whip up on, helps keep our minds off things.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by guido911

If I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.

R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.

Wanting immigration laws enforced does not make you a hater.  But expecting your city council and local police to do a job that the feds refuse to do makes us all look like a bunch of bigots, stupid ones at that.  

And if you cared at all about spiralling health care and public service costs then you'd know that illegal aliens aren't the problem...so don't give me that cr*p.  Where's your proof?

I've let you righteous types go on and on about how "illegals" are bad for 'Merica.  And it looks like you guys have got what you wanted...an exodus...from Tulsa anyway.  It's exactly what we don't need.  That's gonna hurt us and I want to hear you guys take ownership for it.  I want you up at the microphone explaining that, since you chased off several thousand taxpayers, we all now need to pay a higher rate, and why we're all going to have to start paying more than our neighbors for just about everything.  Are you willing to accept responsibility for that?

You can have your principled discussions about what this country needs to do about immigration policy, but Tulsa can't solve this country's problems by itself.  That's just dumb.

NO Chicken, what's dumb is ignoring the problem because somone else will not do the job. Tulsans are at the "grass roots" of this problem. Tulsans are up close and personal and often times victims of with the crime that illegal aliens are causing. Tulsans wait in line in our emergency rooms that are filling up with illegals using them as primary care clinics. Tulsans see our local property taxes being used to provide education for illegal alien's children or even anchor babies. If you cannot see these facts of life, you apparently are dumb.

I do not care whose job immigration reform is. I am just happy somebody is trying.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

To infer that all who disagree with your viewpoint on illegal aliens, immigration reform, or how the new law affects local tax revenue...

I think you can have differing points of view on immigration reform and illegal aliens, but I think your being pretty naive if you think chasing several thousand laborers and consumers out of Tulsa won't hurt the our bottom line.  From what I hear, it already has.

This is only going to leave more slack for the rest of us to pick up.  It's a fair bet that the haters that prompted this change won't be too excited about paying more taxes.  Talk about unintended consequences. [xx(]

If I am a hater because I want our immigration laws respected, because I am genuinely concerned about the spiralling costs for health other public services, and because I am tired of hearing stories of drunken illegal aliens killing Americans in car wrecks or the committing of other violent crimes, so be it.

R2X, remember and take solace, Hometown and CF's side in this debate is the same as Geraldo Rivera.  

And the other side is Michael Savage and Sean Hannity, your point?

There are idiots on both sides and the hate spewed from some on the right is shocking.

I do not know what Savage or Hannity's "side" is on the issue. I can presume that they are in favor of border security based on your statement. I guess that must be a bad thing to you.