Don't end up like OKC.

[cannon_fodder]

I travel around quit a bit, and since being on Tulsa Now on a regular basis take note of things in a city.  What makes this city seem nice?  What makes this area seem run down?

I have come to the conclusion that the general feel for a city is a three fold affair:

1)  Flashy Public Infrastructure.

Public areas like the new arena, the river program, or in OKC the Arboretum, Brick Town, or the Capital area.  BIG public works programs that are meant to benefit the city and lure businesses in.  Built with the intention of people going "wow, that's really nice."  Includes large city parks.

Oklahoma City does this very well in their downtown district/bricktown and around the capital.

2) Day to day infrastructure

Adequate roads.  Well placed and attractive signs.  Little touches like coloration on overpasses that all match each other (a city 'theme' of colors on signs, over passes/bridges, municipal buildings, vehicles, etc.  Like a company would do.  Amirillo is brown and green, Albuquerque is pink and blue, Des Moines is a dark Blue stripe... everything kind of matches).   Maintained medians (sculpture, landscaping, or at least well mowed.  If paved swept of debris on occasion).  General cleanliness by street sweeping, work gangs, and maintenance of public infrastructure (working fountains, non-crumbling road barriers, etc.).  A great example is the details like this in the Plaza or Westport areas of KC.

Oklahoma City does not do this well.  Their roads are largely crap.  Outside of the tourist areas things look very run down.  The overpasses are just utilitarian.  The medians are full of gravel, bums at every corner, etc.

3) Private Enterprise/People

How does the personal property look?  It isnt really the cities job to tell you your house is ugly, but their are laws that can make you get rid of junk cars, mow your lawn, and not have random crap sitting in front of your house.  Business are subject to many of the same rules.  The easements must be maintained by law.  Abandon property is supposed* to be held to the same standards unless it has been surrendered to the city.  How well does the city enforce its ordinances and attempt to keep private property looking good?  This might be, by and large, a reflection of civic pride or attitudes.

Oklahoma City does very poorly in this regard.  In my experience, most areas look run down and ill maintained in OKC.  There are, of course, nice areas to be sure, but much/most is not somewhere you would like to show off to a visitor.
- - -

Tulsa seems to excel in category #3.  For the most part, yards are kept up, junk cars to a minimum, and neighborhoods/business districts look nice.  We are making strides at #1 with recent 2025 developments and perhaps with the river plan and our parks have always seemed nice to me.  But is the city doing anything for #2?

2/3 is probably OK.  But of the hundreds of millions we throw at an arena or to make some puddles, how far would a little of that go to beautify the major corridors through the city, mow the medians, or spruce up a few parks?  When the city OK's a widening project of I-44 did they look at how much extra it would cost to make it look nice (color the overpasses, add a sculpture, landscape the medians, etc.) or to develope a coherent plan so future projects "match" other projects or areas.  

Tulsa not only has to BE as nice of a place as possible, it also has to appear that way to people that may just be passing through.  I do not want to be El Paso where everyone agrees that the city is not appealing, but I also do not want people to have the impression of Tulsa that I have of OKC - "the Bricktown area is nice, but it is a bit like Disney in that the clean nice City look is just an illusion."  (MY opinion of OKC, dont bother telling me I'm wrong because that is MY impression.  Sry.)

Not sure if I articulated that well, but the thought has been brewing for a while so I thought I would at least TRY to share.  It seems fitting given the large amount of public development going on in the last couple of years and proposed for the future years.

[sgrizzle]

I think overpasses and barriers are a real easy way to make a large effect on the city. Most paint is in bad shape at best. The rules for houses are that a fresh coat of paint is the cheapest and makes the biggest difference. A fresh coat of paint + public art projects + good signage = better impression.

Plus, if they're looking at all that, maybe they won't look at how crappy the road is.

[MichaelC]

OKC is always going to have some of the worst roads in the state.  It's simple math, they're covering maybe 200 to 400% the linear mile on major roads, and other infrastructure, than Tulsa.  Yet, they're population is less than 50% more than Tulsa.

And OKCs tax base is actually in worse shape than Tulsa's in some ways. Their burbs developed faster in sales tax base, because they're a lot farther from the center of OKC.  Edmond and Norman have been mostly self contained for at least a couple decades, Tulsa is seriously dealing with that, now.

OKC is 660 something square miles.  Tulsa is 183+.  I think we've annexed some since then.

[swake]

The real fact of the matter is that all cities in Oklahoma are broke. Tulsa, Oklahoma City, Jenks, Broken Arrow. All of them. Federal and state money devoted to cities has dried up and in Oklahoma cities still live on a constant two cent operating fund sales tax and costs for everything continues to go up. And that's while sales taxes erode to the internet and "tax holidays".

Tulsa actually outperforms Oklahoma City on sales taxes. Tulsa, per capita, per cent of sales tax assessed brings in $14.56. Oklahoma City only gets $13.72, or about 94% of what Tulsa does per capita.

Funding for cities in this state has to change. The state is flush with lots of money from oil but isn't sharing when the reality is that local government has the most impact on citizens day to day.

[Breadburner]

I was in OKC today....In the Crown Heights area....Seemed like a nice walkable place to me......

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

I was in OKC today....In the Crown Heights area....Seemed like a nice walkable place to me......

Yeah, all 2 1/2 - 3 blocks of it are pretty decent.  Looks like a mimicking of Brookside, only on a much, much smaller scale.

I've actually been thinking about the paint on the overpasses lately, too.  As I drive into downtown on 75, the right side of the concrete wall (before the signs indicating where PGA Tour parking is...you know, 7 miles before you need it...) looks good, the left side not so good.

Is there some concerted, citywide group like Up With Trees that is responsible for that sort of thing?

[Aa5drvr]

I was in Seattle recently and traffic slowed on one of the freeways.  There was a moving truck with a sign that said, "Flushing Truck."

Sure enough, up ahead was a big truck with a high pressure nozzle spraying off the inside shoulder of the freeway.  Ahead of that truck was a loader scooping up any solid debris.

I have noticed the amount of junk along the shoulders of I-244 especially is tremendous.

[swake]

Painting overpasses and cleaning highways are not even city issues. The state isn't cleaning or painting the highways (or maintaining them for that matter). And we all know the state has plenty of money at the moment.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Painting overpasses and cleaning highways are not even city issues. The state isn't cleaning or painting the highways (or maintaining them for that matter). And we all know the state has plenty of money at the moment.

Inside the City it is.....It's contracted....

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by swake

Painting overpasses and cleaning highways are not even city issues. The state isn't cleaning or painting the highways (or maintaining them for that matter). And we all know the state has plenty of money at the moment.

Inside the City it is.....It's contracted....

Then why do I see ODOT crews on the highways? Wasn't it an ODOT employee that was killed on 169 a month or so ago clearing brush? I think you are wrong, and I know you are wrong on maintaining highways.

[Breadburner]

Nope....I'm not....

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Nope....I'm not....

ODOT also does all the mowing on highways

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Nope....I'm not....

Yes, you are:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-164570338.html

Jun. 6--TULSA -- A state Department of Transportation worker was run over this morning in Tulsa while clearing tree limbs from a highway, police said.

Robert Cherry, 42, was killed about 8 a.m. Wednesday while clearing debris in the 500 block of N U.S. 169,




And More:

Mowing in and around Green Country is a welcome sight. Crews are finally getting a break from constant rain, which has made Green Country really green, but has also made the grass really high.

"The biggest challenge really is the weather," ODOT Maintenance Engineer Mike Smith said. "It might be dry in one area of the city and we might get a rain shower that comes through and another area gets wet."

Mike Smith says in more than 35 years with ODOT he can't remember a July like this one. Often it's been too wet, too muddy and too dangerous for tractors.

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=131803



And ODOT does potholes on highways:

May showers have potholes in bloom. Steady rain and heavy traffic have turned several Tulsa roads into a minefield of potholes. News On 6 anchor Omar Villafranca reports ODOT says they're fixing the roads, but we spoke to a woman Thursday who says potholes have put her in a financial hole.

"What did it sound like when you went over?" asked News On 6 anchor Omar Villafranca.

"BOOM! It popped. And then my signal light automatically said tire pressure," said Tulsa driver Vercillia Jones.

A deep pothole on the Broken Arrow expressway bent two of Vercillia Jones' rims and popped her tires. The bump in the road put a dent in her wallet. She's out $1,000 in repairs, and she is not alone. At David's Custom Wheels, the rain brought a flood of customers, all due to the potholes.

"It's getting bad out there. You've got to be careful," said David Jones Of David's Custom Wheels.

Martin Stewart with ODOT says his crews are working day and night.

http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=127060

[Breadburner]

Hey Dingus....I never said he did not work for ODOT.....But the City is responsible in part for clean up on highways in the city......

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Hey Dingus....I never said he did not work for ODOT.....But the City is responsible in part for clean up on highways in the city......

Prove it