East End Update?

[pfox]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

Looks like I was right, after all...suburban development wrapped in brick.

Tulsa World reported this morning that "this single-story store will have a brick facade..." and that it will be about 150,000 square feet. [B)]

That's a LOT of surface space to occupy, when it'd only be half that with even a 2-level store.

I had kept hopes up that Seay actually knew what 'urban' meant, because he kept throwing the word out in his interview(s), but it appears that does not.

I, too would like to see if TN could approach them with suggestions for design improvements.  Maybe with some facts about urbanism, walkability, scale and proportion, surface parking and mixed use facilities, it could help alter the plans...

Oh come now DScott!  Of COURSE he knows what it means. Pshaw!

[tulsa1603]

Well, my decision to move has just been made that much easier.  I swear, I am shaking as I type this.

Wal-Mart will be the flagship of our downtown.  And if you think the so-called "urban" design will be any different than any other Wal-Mart, you are kidding yourself.  A fence around the parking lot?  Whoopee!  Simply having a Wal-Mart supercenter sized parking lot will completely negate ANY "urban" design they tack onto this pig.  It, like pretty much any other Wal-Mart, will be a magnet for trash.

This is an embarrassment to our city.  Hopefully, oh hopefully, they will demand something that will allow public to fight it.

From Oil Capital of the world to "Wal-Mart, the shining (you know it will be well lit!) symbol of our city.

OK, I'm gonna go count to ten now.....

[brunoflipper]

the 64 million dollar question is will it be a super walmart? (re: groceries)

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

the 64 million dollar question is will it be a super walmart? (re: groceries)

Yes, 150,000 square foot Supercenter

[Renaissance]

Not the end of the world.  Not perfect, but not the end of the world.  

The key will be constant pressure and an open design process.  I wouldn't count on the latter, but I'll keep an open mind until I see renderings.

[Oil Capital]

Well, thank goodness we don't have a Bass Pro Shops spoiling our downtown.  Those type of stores just don't belong in a downtown.  []

[brunoflipper]

just make it look urban, that is all i ask...
make it look urban...
build a parking garage, on the back...
don't put a parking lot between the street and the front door...
do something like this

or this...


but for the love of god do NOT do this...


don't pull a bass pro and dump a standard big box in the middle of town...

below is a link and design that sounds like what they plan to do here (150k sqft, apartments, parking deck)...
and as long as the design were right on the street without a sea of asphalt between the building and sidewalk, i got no issues...

they build any of that suburban crap and i'll go ape**** crazy if they try and get a TIF... it has to have decked, hidden parking... that is a deal breaker...

urban walmart village with apartments...



article on urban big boxes


as a bonus, you could make the interior more urban like they did in atlanta and provide some more unusual merchandise choices...

article on urban walmart in ATL
another story on the atl walmart

[Townsend]

I'd love to see Walmart look less Walmarty for Tulsa DT.  I'm pleased for the development.

Any idea which development is taking over the old KOTV space?  I saw that Griffin was looking to Brady for a new KOTV location.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper


below is a link and design that sounds like what they plan to do here (150k sqft, apartments, parking deck)...
and as long as the design were right on the street without a sea of asphalt between the building and sidewalk, i got no issues...

urban walmart village with apartments...




article on urban walmart in ATL


article on urban big boxes

another story on the atl walmart

Those renderings look great!  Can we hope for something like that?

[dsjeffries]

bruno, that would make me happy.
This one, espcially, is what we should be striving for:


I hope they learned their lesson in Atlanta, and I hope some kind of neighborhood association/community association (IS there one in downtown right now, ASIDE from the joke that is DTU?) steps up and demands it.  Perhaps it's a job for SuperTulsaNow! []

I've tried to find contact info for the company, Seayco, but haven't found any yet.  We need to write, call, and e-mail this guy (and the unnamed Claremore guy) all we can and get something done about this.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

just make it look urban, that is all i ask...
make it look urban...
build a parking garage, on the back...
don't put a parking lot between the street and the front door...
do something like this

or this...


but for the love of god do NOT do this...


don't pull a bass pro and dump a standard big box in the middle of town...

below is a link and design that sounds like what they plan to do here (150k sqft, apartments, parking deck)...
and as long as the design were right on the street without a sea of asphalt between the building and sidewalk, i got no issues...

they build any of that suburban crap and i'll go ape**** crazy if they try and get a TIF... it has to have decked, hidden parking... that is a deal breaker...

urban walmart village with apartments...



article on urban big boxes


as a bonus, you could make the interior more urban like they did in atlanta and provide some more unusual merchandise choices...

article on urban walmart in ATL
another story on the atl walmart

Bruno, I hope you're design is what they go with, but I can't help being skeptical.  We're talking about a company that prides itself on being cheap.  Their corporate headquarters are in a bunch of ugly warehouses and military-style bunker.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

shhhh........ I think they heard you.

New Downtown Plan Includes Urban Wal-Mart



An Arkansas real estate developer plans a mixed-use project, including an urban Wal-Mart, on the east side of downtown that he believes has the potential to kick-start the redevelopment of the heart of Tulsa, the Tulsa Business Journal learned today.
Read More

"Global Development still plans a mixed-use project, according to Tom Kissler, partner.

"We have acquired one full city block, and we are working on other attractive land," Kissler said. "We intend to do a project – and it will be a big project. When we are in a better position to talk about it, we will.""

Sure it'll be big, punkin'... just like you told us before... [B)]  LOL.

[dsjeffries]

Oh God, I wish this idiot would just shut up.  He's now claiming it's "totally urban"....

From KOTV:

quote:...The land purchased for the shopping center is bordered by Sixth Street on the south and Fourth Street on the north. The shopping center will be next to the Inner Dispersal Loop and the Wal-Mart will back up to it, facing downtown.

The developer says the land is under contract and the next step is seeking permits from the city to build the development.

The land to be redeveloped covers 15 acres, and besides the Wal-Mart, it will include 65,000 square feet of other shops, a four story, 150 unit apartment complex and a four story parking garage.

The developer told us Friday the Wal-Mart would be smaller than most suburban stores being built now, with a totally urban design to reflect it's location. He would not reveal how much he paid for the land to build it.

Not to mention that the "it's" should be "its"...  I'm starting to think this guy is dumber than a box of hair (not that he wrote the article and misspelled 'its'--that's KOTV's fault--but by his statements).

If there's going to be a four story parking garage, would there really be need AT ALL for surface parking?  Perhaps he's ditched the whole 'box in the parking lot with fences and bushes' idea?  And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the proper next step is NOT to apply for building permits, but to seek citizen input.  District 4 Councilwoman Barnes wasn't even approached At All, and isn't happy about it.

From KTUL:

quote:The land is in Councilor Maria Barnes' district. And, she's concerned because she hasn't been a part of any discussion about the big development...

Councilor Barnes says it could be a good thing, if only she could see it.

"I don't like to get up in the morning and read the paper and say 'oh, this is what's going on in District Four'," Barnes says. "I think it makes for good practice just to keep the councilors, the mayor, everybody on board, on the same page so we know what's going on."

This really has me ticked.

For the love of God, don't tout urban unless it actually is!

White Plains = Urban Transformation:
Before:


After:

[USRufnex]

Does this mean the guy with the resume doesn't have the money...... and the guy with the money doesn't have the resume?!?

[dsjeffries]

Also, here's a freakishly similar downtown situation in Tacoma, Washington. Oh, and they apparently are called T-Town, too.. Who knew Tulsa had so much in common with Tacoma? One blogger was upset that Wal-Mart would even consider downtown Tacoma: "whether Wal-Mart would work or not, you do NOT put a Wal-Mart smack in the middle of T-Town."

From the News Tribune (http://dwb.thenewstribune.com/business/columnists/voelpel/story/6442298p-5739911c.html):

quote:Downtown and Wal-Mart: A perfect match?

DAN VOELPEL; THE NEWS TRIBUNE
Published: April 1st, 2007 01:00 AM
Ask folks to identify two things downtown Tacoma needs and you'll usually get the same answers – some big-name retail and a grocery store. What if both came in one big box?

A box called Wal-Mart.

Imagine the barbs from those uppity Seattle pundits.

But what if I told you scouts for the world's largest retailer have requested traffic counts at multiple downtown sites for Wal-Mart's newest format – a multi-story, inner-city supercenter, with its own parking, woven into the urban landscape?
Jennifer Holder, Wal-Mart's Seattle-based public affairs manager, declined to discuss specific plans, potential sites or demographic conditions that precipitate location decisions, but ...

"We definitely have an interest in Tacoma," Holder confirmed.

Does the prospect of a Wal-Mart in downtown Tacoma strike terror in your heart, tick you off, make you salivate at the opportunity or cause you to yawn?

Let's look at White Plains, N.Y. – the best real-life example of what could happen in Tacoma.

Sears abandoned its hulking department store next door to historic White Plains City Hall for a shopping mall and its concrete shell sat vacant for years at Second and Main streets, the heart of downtown. A downtown that had started to undergo a bit of a renaissance with a new hotel, some luxury condominiums and apartments, but no grocery store. Sound familiar?

A New Jersey developer, Ivy Equities, partnered with an investment company, Barrow Street Capital, to buy the shell and an adjacent parking garage in 2003.

A year later, in a news release, came this revelation:

"(New York, N.Y-based) Staubach Retail announces that Wal-Mart Stores Inc., has leased 186,000 square feet at Shoppes on Main, a new retail center being developed at 275 Main St. in White Plains, New York."

"When they were first proposing it, there was a lot of opposition," said Richard Liebson, a reporter for The Journal News in White Plains. "People were skeptical and cynical."
   
At City Hall and in the entrenched downtown merchant community, the first conversations started with, "How can we stop Wal-Mart?"

"People were concerned about what it would do to our businesses," said Melissa Lopez, coordinator of economic development for the mayor's office. "I mean it's right next to City Hall, and we're right smack in the middle of downtown."

A Wal-Mart in a downtown core didn't compute in minds of White Plainsians. Wasn't Wal-Mart a more suburban conqueror?

Yes, but downtown White Plains gave Wal-Mart executives the chance to show off its latest brainstorm, a new configuration that had potential to expand the retailer's domain to inner-cities. They called it, perhaps sardonically, "a stacked deck."

In White Plains that meant: groceries on the ground floor, general merchandise on the second floor, levels of parking above that, a newfangled escalator that carries shopping carts and a downtown-looking exterior in a shared building with other retailers and restaurants.

And yet.

Even in the days before Wal-Mart opened last July 19, some locals railed against it with picket signs and protest lines.

And then.

"It's always crowded, and it's been very well received," reporter Liebson said.

What about the merchants' collective fear that Wal-Mart's discount smiley-face pricing would suck away customers?

The opposite happened.

"We've actually received very good feedback from our merchants," Lopez said. "Our downtown business improvement district says Wal-Mart has brought a lot of foot traffic downtown.

What Wal-Mart may or may not do in downtown Tacoma remains undisclosed – for now.

The "stacked decks are looked at as an option in each individual market" and could include underground parking with office space and condominiums above the store and a mix of other retailers, Wal-Mart's Holder said.

"How we pick any of our store markets is confidential, and we don't disclose any of it," she said.

Downtown Tacoma and Wal-Mart. The White Plains experience would foreshadow a match made in heaven. But my gut says it would face a heckuva battle. Except from the Seattle pundits.