Downtown Wal-Mart

[Double A]

I know how to stop this Wal-Mart dead in it's tracks. Stop the city hall move and the city property will not be freed up for this development to take place. I hope this makes you happy you supported the city hall move. Good work. Make life bitter.

Personal attack removed

[TheArtist]

I just got back from looking at the area. I dont think there is a more desolate and blighted looking spot in all of downtown. Even a regular looking wal-mart would be an improvement. Add 150 decent apartments, putting close to 200 more people living downtown, and a 4 story parking garage along with other shops along with it could only improve that corner.

There is pleeeenty of other property available for development.

I am anxious to see the over all design and layout however. But its really hard to actually drive around that spot and think of complaining about something new of any kind going in there.

[inteller]

it needs to have a ziggurat at least.  And I think it needs art deco motifs of wal-mart workser doing various forms of labor, kinda like the old fire alarm building.

[dsjeffries]

I'd really like to see it reflect an art deco design, given Tulsa's affinity for it.  Streamline would be really cool, but so would zig-zag.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I just got back from looking at the area. I dont think there is a more desolate and blighted looking spot in all of downtown. Even a regular looking wal-mart would be an improvement. Add 150 decent apartments, putting close to 200 more people living downtown, and a 4 story parking garage along with other shops along with it could only improve that corner.

There is pleeeenty of other property available for development.

I am anxious to see the over all design and layout however. But its really hard to actually drive around that spot and think of complaining about something new of any kind going in there.

While I agree that what's there now is pretty crappy, and that anything would look better, we should shoot for something that's more than mediocre.  If they're gonna do it, they should do it right.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I just got back from looking at the area. I dont think there is a more desolate and blighted looking spot in all of downtown...

There is pleeeenty of other property available for development.

I am anxious to see the over all design and layout however. But its really hard to actually drive around that spot and think of complaining about something new of any kind going in there.

I've spent time looking around the site, especially since another topic about a proposed baseball stadium was posted two or three years ago.  I think Nordam security must be tired of seeing me lurking around the place.

It's not the gloomiest corner of downtown IMO.  I see tremendous potential for some of the buildings.  I think it could be a great residential district.  Many of the existing buildings are non-descript, but the brick facade facing Lansing between 5th Place and 5th Street has a nice art deco feel to it with its rhythm of vertical piers.  Two or three of the buildings on Kenosha between 5th and 6th are attractive also.

Over the past decade, I've seen a worse area in downtown Portland tranformed into an attractive urban neighborhood.  Whether or not something like that will happen in the east portion of downtown Tulsa remains to be seen.  But I know it could happen.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

 Most potential shoppers will not care whether the development is 'urban' or not.

Most potential Wal-Mart shoppers are complete idiots though.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by deinstein

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

 Most potential shoppers will not care whether the development is 'urban' or not.

Most potential Wal-Mart shoppers are complete idiots though.

Would a customer base of apathetic eggheads who don't give a flip about urban design be any better?  Most potential shoppers, regardless of intelligence level, will not care whether this development is 'urban' or not.

[YoungTulsan]

I don't think a typical Wal-mart shopper would be indifferent to whether it was "Urban" or "suburban".  The typical Wal-mart shopper would actually be DISCOURAGED by "Urban".  When you have people saying "we have to minimize surface parking" and what not, that makes the store more of a pain to the average auto-commuter who wants all the convenient parking they can find.  Places with parking in the rear also make it to where people need to plan their route, rather than driving down the street to a big sign and big inviting parking lot, and going "OO Dere go a walmart!!" and cutting across 2 lanes of traffic in a split second decision to go buy some junk.    The city would have to change dramatically before developers are not going to prefer to build big inviting parking lots and giant signage.  Why would they want to hurt business?  I do hate the fact that they are lying and saying they are building an "Urban" Wal-mart when they are most likely not, however.

Also, I wonder if they'll get a Penguin.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

I don't think a typical Wal-mart shopper would be indifferent to whether it was "Urban" or "suburban".  The typical Wal-mart shopper would actually be DISCOURAGED by "Urban".  When you have people saying "we have to minimize surface parking" and what not, that makes the store more of a pain to the average auto-commuter who wants all the convenient parking they can find...

I think you have a valid point.  I stand corrected.

Surface parking is fairly easy to understand.  Many drivers are confused by multi-level and especially by underground parking structures.

[TheTed]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

I don't think a typical Wal-mart shopper would be indifferent to whether it was "Urban" or "suburban".  The typical Wal-mart shopper would actually be DISCOURAGED by "Urban".  When you have people saying "we have to minimize surface parking" and what not, that makes the store more of a pain to the average auto-commuter who wants all the convenient parking they can find...

I think you have a valid point.  I stand corrected.

Surface parking is fairly easy to understand.  Many drivers are confused by multi-level and especially by underground parking structures.

I agree.

I live and work downtown and I constantly hear people complaining about downtown parking when parking is incredibly easy, especially if you're willing to walk two blocks or pay a very minimal fee. People are A-OK with walking several blocks distance across a concrete wasteland at woodland hills, but walking two blocks downtown is apparently far more difficult for many people.

I guess it confuses many Tulsans when there's not a big surface lot in front of every building.

[Bledsoe]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I don't think hardly anybody wants this development. Pissing off a bunch of people is not the way to get this thing done.

I could live with a very different type of Urban Wal-Mart, but who is kidding whom? These guys have no intention of doing that.

I say we refuse them any public support and fight them on every detail we can.

I agree with Michael.  This mornings paper states that a TIF District will be necessary for the project to go forward.  

See: http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070805_1_A1_hApar20631
Tulsa World

JUST SAY NO TO A DOWNTOWN WAL-MART!!!!!  

I do not shop at Wal-Mart because of their many politically incorrect positions.  

See http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/press/
Wake-Up Wal-Mart Press Center

Downtown is not necessary for their business model. In fact, as has been pointed out, an "Urban" Wal-Mart is a myth.  Wal-Mart and YUPPIE does not compute.  A downtown Wal-Mart will be a cold shower for any other downtown retail.  If a Wal-Mart had gone into downtown OKC most of their retail development would have been scared off.  Those good business Republicans over there understand this and OKC would have never permitted a downtown Wal-Mart.

Before we put City support behind Wal-Mart we need to find an anchor tenant for the vacated Albertson's at Pine and Peoria.

Contact the Mayor and Councilors and JUST SAY NO TO A DOWNTOWN WAL-MART!!!!

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld
[br  Many drivers are confused by multi-level and especially by underground parking structures.

people like this are typically the same ones that go to wal-mart.

there is nothing hard about a parking garage.  If you can't figure that out then you should just shoot yourself since even mice can figure out how to navigate a maze.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by booWorld
[br  Many drivers are confused by multi-level and especially by underground parking structures.

people like this are typically the same ones that go to wal-mart.

there is nothing hard about a parking garage.  If you can't figure that out then you should just shoot yourself since even mice can figure out how to navigate a maze.

Mice?  How about lemmings?

Surface parking is ugly, but it's the simplest type of parking for drivers to understand.  Underground parking structures are the most difficult for drivers to understand because they are not visible at a glance.

I'm opposed to TIF or any other type of public funding for this project.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by booWorld
[br  Many drivers are confused by multi-level and especially by underground parking structures.

people like this are typically the same ones that go to wal-mart.

there is nothing hard about a parking garage.  If you can't figure that out then you should just shoot yourself since even mice can figure out how to navigate a maze.

Mice?  How about lemmings?

Surface parking is ugly, but it's the simplest type of parking for drivers to understand.  Underground parking structures are the most difficult for drivers to understand because they are not visible at a glance.

I'm opposed to TIF or any other type of public funding for this project.

The only positive about a TIFF is that it would give the city an element of control of the design and quality of the project. If a TIFF is rejected you can be quite sure what we will end up with is a Wal-Mart that is a duplicate of the new one at 66th and Memorial. As it is now with the current zoning, the city has no say in anything.