Back to back ozone alert days

[AMP]

Simple solution to traffic light problems is to cycle them into flashing mode during light traffic times.  One directions flashes yellow while the less used direction flashes red.  Many small towns traffic lights are set up that way.

Cheap and easy fix. Slow down and proceed through on flashing yellow. Stop and go when clear on flashing red.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Thousands of other Tulsans do care. Bus ridership is up 30% on ozone days.

Is that because the rides are cheaper or is because people actually care? I tend to be skeptical of the latter version.

[RecycleMichael]

You think people are going to totally change their commuting habits just to save 75 cents each way?

[AMP]

Don't think an Ozone Alert would stop a scheduled major auto race.  

Oh, it didn't they are racing tonight and tomorrow and Saturday. LOL

Not sure of the effects of burning Methanol fuel in high compression efficent engines.

Anyone have the specs on that?

[Double A]

That's right, attack me because you really can't defend this. If we do not make serious changes, instead of continuing these voluntary spin and window dressing illusions, we will be facing expensive involuntary changes that we cannot afford to be forced to make. The EPA is making the ozone standards stricter and Tulsa will not be able to avoid non-attainment under our current Ozone Alert spin solution to deal with our pollution problems. Besides, it looks more and more likely that we will be on the dirty air list under the current standards, anyway. Tulsa needs to stop the cheer leading and start the proof reading.

[RecycleMichael]

Please don't refer to our extensive ozone education campaign as "spin". You insult the team of people who work hard every year to do all we can to keep Tulsa off the dirty air list.

Tulsa has the best voluntary ozone reduction program in the country. We work hard to get the message out and our efforts have kept Tulsa's air clean. When Tulsa passed last year by one one thousand of a point, we know our efforts mattered. When you are that close to failing, every person makes a difference.

Half of the problems for ozone formation comes from passenger cars. Other high contributors are gasoline lawn equipment like mowers and weed-eaters. Our campaign addresses these areas very publicly, but that is not all that is happening.

We have had meetings with every local indutry that is classified as an emitter. We are working together on a variety of strategies to reduce emissions. Many of these industries are taking expensive measures because we asked them to and they too want clean air in Tulsa.

You probably didn't know all that, so you just attacked us. Your comments like these, We've done the absolute least we could possibly do. Hell, we don't even offer free bus rides on ozone alert days anymore. This apologist/enabler mentality is why we are in the mess we are in today, that and poor leadership from the "so-called" environmental stewards(uncle Tom's) of this city. Ozone Alerts are a joke, they are a feel good solution that don't substantively solve a damn thing. All it does is sedate the chicken ****, conformist, consumer masses by giving them illusion that our city leaders are solving the problem so they will return to their complacent apathy comas and bury their heads back in the bar codes of their fascist feudalist massers. tell me that you just want to attack us and call us names. I don't know why you think that is the solution.

[cannon_fodder]

Am I the only one who avoids getting gas on Ozone alert days?  A few people I talked to didnt even know that was a problem.  For the love of god, you can SEE the fumes while pumping gas.  Sheesh!

[Rowdy]

Sheesh yourself!  I work in the field in a Network Operations job and I can't help filling up on Ozone Days due to mileage reasons.  Some people cannot help it.  I do honor it by not doing yard work when I get home.

[cannon_fodder]

No, I understand Rowdy.  If tomorrow is an ozone alert day I will have to fill up for sure... one can only go so many days.  Especially if you have a long commute or drive for work.  I understand that.

What I was referring to was several friends of mine.  I mentioned something about running on "E" to avoid filling up and it stirred a discussion on why.  I said to avoid going over the pollution limits... ozone alert days, dirty air list.  They had no idea filling up with gas contributed.

That's what perplexed me.  They didn't even realize they should try to avoid it.

[RecycleMichael]

We should always try to buy gas at night during the summer.

Ozone is produced by a mixture of VOC and NOX that gets baked by the afternoon sun. Buying gas(or even mowing) late at night gives the problems a chance to dissipate before morning.

The weather forecast calls a little wind to pick up the next few days so I think we will be OK for a short while. If the wind is blowing, feel free to buy gas or mow and trim the lawn.

[Rowdy]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

No, I understand Rowdy.  If tomorrow is an ozone alert day I will have to fill up for sure... one can only go so many days.  Especially if you have a long commute or drive for work.  I understand that.

What I was referring to was several friends of mine.  I mentioned something about running on "E" to avoid filling up and it stirred a discussion on why.  I said to avoid going over the pollution limits... ozone alert days, dirty air list.  They had no idea filling up with gas contributed.

That's what perplexed me.  They didn't even realize they should try to avoid it.

Yeah, I still remember a few years ago where one of the local news crews was going out to filling stations and walking up to people interviewing them on the spot.  They would ask why they were filling up on Ozone Alert Day and they had the Deer-In-The-Headlights look. []

[aoxamaxoa]

I will vote for the river tax if it includes funds for oxygen masks which are now neccesary to enjoy the river parks during the summer months.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Please don't refer to our extensive ozone education campaign as "spin". You insult the team of people who work hard every year to do all we can to keep Tulsa off the dirty air list.

Tulsa has the best voluntary ozone reduction program in the country. We work hard to get the message out and our efforts have kept Tulsa's air clean. When Tulsa passed last year by one one thousand of a point, we know our efforts mattered. When you are that close to failing, every person makes a difference.

Half of the problems for ozone formation comes from passenger cars. Other high contributors are gasoline lawn equipment like mowers and weed-eaters. Our campaign addresses these areas very publicly, but that is not all that is happening.

We have had meetings with every local indutry that is classified as an emitter. We are working together on a variety of strategies to reduce emissions. Many of these industries are taking expensive measures because we asked them to and they too want clean air in Tulsa.

You probably didn't know all that, so you just attacked us. Your comments like these, We've done the absolute least we could possibly do. Hell, we don't even offer free bus rides on ozone alert days anymore. This apologist/enabler mentality is why we are in the mess we are in today, that and poor leadership from the "so-called" environmental stewards(uncle Tom's) of this city. Ozone Alerts are a joke, they are a feel good solution that don't substantively solve a damn thing. All it does is sedate the chicken ****, conformist, consumer masses by giving them illusion that our city leaders are solving the problem so they will return to their complacent apathy comas and bury their heads back in the bar codes of their fascist feudalist massers. tell me that you just want to attack us and call us names. I don't know why you think that is the solution.

                                            The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Short of a full frontal lobotomy, there is no way I will join the chorus of cheer leaders who engage in this mental illness.  This voluntary approach to solving this problem is like holding a gambler's anonymous meeting at a casino and we are getting about the same results. Lady Luck has been very kind to us this summer, but she is a fickle mistress. Our luck will run out. Sorry if I think gambling Tulsa's future on feel good measures is an insane way to deal with this problem.

[RecycleMichael]

I realize that you just "hate the establishment" and use this forum like a urinal.

We get it.

You have no clue about real facts and write and speak incorrect innuendos and anger as a tool to act like a rebel.

We get it.

You would rather call people names and make speeches to anyone who has a camera and a microphone. It is all about you.

We get it.

Tulsa has been off the dirty air list for every year since we have had an organized air quality education committee. The larger communities around us...Dallas, Kansas City, Houston, Denver and even smaller communities like Longview have all failed and now on the dirty air list. Tulsa has a program that almost every other community wants. The EPA calls our program the best voluntary program in the country and has entered into contracts with us pledging to do everything they can to keep us off if we fail.

Tulsa was even given a special status a few years ago calling us a "Flexible Attainment Region". They admitted that we did better than anyone else and if we failed, it was impossible for anyone in our situation to succeed.

The standards will probably continue to become more strict and there may be a day where they set a standard that we cannot meet. But I am going to do all I can before then to convince everybody else in town to act those few days a year where it really matters.

They get it.

[YoungTulsan]

It seems to me, that the reality of "Ozone Alerts" and what our air measures at, is about 99.9% weather, and 0.1% people refraining from cutting the weeds.

A freaking weed eater is going to make a difference?  We pollute the same amount every day.  Every day there are airplanes, helicopters, thousands of semi-trucks, two refineries, a power plant, and plenty of gas pumping at the local QTs.  Not buying gas at a certain time because of "pollution" is just as foolish as those chain e-mail letters about "Boycott gas on the 12th, we can cost Exxon $10 billion if we all work together!!1" - Because you are still going to fill up your tank.  You will be polluting the same.   The Ozone alert system is pretty much saying "pollute more at night, instead" or "pollute more next week".

But it is the WEATHER that usually does a good job of blowing our pollution away, and every now and then stagnates allowing us to breath in our own pollution.

I think Double A's point, while he may come off as hostile against the whole establishment, is simply that if we REALLY want to deal with the problem of POLLUTION, we should actually address the core of the problem.  Telling people not to use a weed-eater makes people FEEL like they are doing something.  So Joe Citizen now has a yard looking like squalor, while BillyBob the truck driver continues driving his big-rig across town, the refinery finds new and clever ways to dispose of toxic waste under our noses, and news helicopters fly around just for the hell of it.

I'm adding to that point my own, that pollution on a windy fall or spring day is the exact same pollution as on a stagnant summer day.  Why not hold every day of the year to the same standard, instead of suddenly thinking we have a problem because of the weather?