Mandatory deportation has illegals on the run

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little
20,000 people is about 5% of Tulsa's population, and they support city services by purchasing goods and services (sales tax).  It's really straightforward.  If you chase off 5% of the sales tax (and by that I mean YOU, specifically), then you should be willing to pay an extra amount in sales tax, water bills, ambulance fees, etc., in order to offset those losses.

You are missing the point. If 20k stop paying sales tax because they leave, 20k are also not using water, electricity, fire, medical, etc. So the loss in sales tax revenue is offset by the reduction in used services. The last time I checked smaller communities spent less on public services than large communities. Simple math.

[MichaelC]

Imagine what it'll do to the housing market.  Not just building, but you know the housing market is suffering from all these sub-prime deals.  The rental markets in Tulsa have been hurting because of population loss and easy home financing.

In Tulsa, the last few years while we were dropping population, people were still buying houses and a whole lot of rental property went on the market, driving the price down.  A lot of apartment complexes have way too much empty space. Sending 20,000 renters out of the market may force a lot of apartment complexes to eventually become Housing Authority.

I think we increased our potential for blight, even without consideration of the potential loss on the sales tax base.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

You really don't get it, do you?  20,000 people is about 5% of Tulsa's population, and they support city services by purchasing goods and services (sales tax).  It's really straightforward.  If you chase off 5% of the sales tax (and by that I mean YOU, specifically), then you should be willing to pay an extra amount in sales tax, water bills, ambulance fees, etc., in order to offset those losses.  Are you willing to do that?  Are you willing to raise taxes on yourself?

Cry me a Try not to use the **** things please river. It is the pro-illegals that got us into this situation and 20,000 of the poorest people in Tulsa can not be contributing much in sales tax revenue considering the fact that A. they are poor and B. the majority of it goes back to their home countries.If Tulsa really is dependent on sale tax revenue of illegals it is the fault of pro-illegals for tolerating criminals,not those who want our laws obeyed.

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

Imagine what it'll do to the housing market.  Not just building, but you know the housing market is suffering from all these sub-prime deals.  The rental markets in Tulsa have been hurting because of population loss and easy home financing.

In Tulsa, the last few years while we were dropping population, people were still buying houses and a whole lot of rental property went on the market, driving the price down.  A lot of apartment complexes have way too much empty space. Sending 20,000 renters out of the market may force a lot of apartment complexes to eventually become Housing Authority.

I think we increased our potential for blight, even without consideration of the potential loss on the sales tax base.

When you profit off of criminal activity  you have no one else to blame but yourself for your loss of business when the criminals get booted or driven out.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

When you profit off of criminal activity  you have no one else to blame but yourself for your loss of business when the criminals get booted or driven out.

No, when East Tulsa loses a huge chunk of population and we're still having to provide policing and repair infrastructure with our decreased tax base, I'm blaming you, insult removed.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

When you profit off of criminal activity  you have no one else to blame but yourself for your loss of business when the criminals get booted or driven out.

No, when East Tulsa loses a huge chunk of population and we're still having to provide policing and repair infrastructure with our decreased tax base, I'm blaming you, numb-nuts.

Loss of population would only mean a stress on infrastructure if those people lost were in the first place legal and paying taxes on their incomes.  Property taxes?  These people are renting.  Who rents to illegals?  Slumlords.  If some slumlord is having financial difficulties, he'll just sell to a bigger richer slumlord.  Or maybe, just maybe, a slumlord forced to sell would end up selling to a legitimite legal citizen of the US who will possibly occupy the home, pay taxes, be paid legit, participate in normal US culture, and generate new economic activity.  What a horrible thing for East Tulsa!

[jamesrage]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC
No, when East Tulsa loses a huge chunk of population and we're still having to provide policing and repair infrastructure with our decreased tax base, I'm blaming you, numb-nuts.

No you and other pro-illegals have only yourself to blame for profiting off of criminal behavior.You know it is illegal to hire illegals and you didn't report illegals to immigration authorities,so it is your fault for trying to profit it off of illegals.

BTW if most illegals live tightly packed in single family homes,earn below minimum wage and send the rest of their money to their home country,how can they really be contributing much in taxes?Is there a really huge tax for using money wiring services?

[Lister]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by jamesrage

When you profit off of criminal activity  you have no one else to blame but yourself for your loss of business when the criminals get booted or driven out.

No, when East Tulsa loses a huge chunk of population and we're still having to provide policing and repair infrastructure with our decreased tax base, I'm blaming you, numb-nuts.

Loss of population would only mean a stress on infrastructure if those people lost were in the first place legal and paying taxes on their incomes.  Property taxes?  These people are renting.  Who rents to illegals?  Slumlords.  If some slumlord is having financial difficulties, he'll just sell to a bigger richer slumlord.  Or maybe, just maybe, a slumlord forced to sell would end up selling to a legitimite legal citizen of the US who will possibly occupy the home, pay taxes, be paid legit, participate in normal US culture, and generate new economic activity.  What a horrible thing for East Tulsa!

Amen to that.. Wow, I can't believe some of the comments I'm hearing from the slaveowner left.

[RecycleMichael]

Slaveowner left?

You mean pro-immigration folk like President Bush?

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Slaveowner left?

You mean pro-immigration folk like President Bush?

Pro illegal and liberal Bush. Bush is not a conservative and just as much a part of the slave owner left as anyone.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Loss of population would only mean a stress on infrastructure if those people lost were in the first place legal and paying taxes on their incomes.  Property taxes?  These people are renting.  Who rents to illegals?  Slumlords.  If some slumlord is having financial difficulties, he'll just sell to a bigger richer slumlord.  Or maybe, just maybe, a slumlord forced to sell would end up selling to a legitimite legal citizen of the US who will possibly occupy the home, pay taxes, be paid legit, participate in normal US culture, and generate new economic activity.  What a horrible thing for East Tulsa!

Tulsa collects income tax and "slumlords" don't pay property taxes?  Both are those are wrong, not that you knew, nor that your lack of knowledge makes you a complete idiot.

You can probably expect your aryan brothers to flee afterwards as housing simply gets boarded up and shopping becomes less prevalent.  You're not pulling a magic trick out of your ar$e, not on this one.  You might try learning how the city works.  If 20K is anywhere near true, everything we're trying to correct in North Tulsa, you've doomed East Tulsa to the same fate.

[restored2x]

I was in a discussion like this a few weeks ago that was shut down by the admin. There was actually less name-calling in that discussion.

Does it actually make a point more logical and acceptable if you call someone a racist? What a cheap way out of an intelligent conversation.

Many of the posts on here look like they come from a schoolyard fight instead of from responsible adults trying to discuss disparate views. Do you guys even read what you've written? Or do you just get a kick out of name-calling?

Some of us are truly interested in dialogue on immigration. Unfortunately - it has become impossible on this board. What a shame.

[Breadburner]

Do they pay their Auto insurance....Federal and State taxes...Medicare taxes.....Excise tax....Automobile Tag.....Drivers License.....Anything......

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Most people across the country [feel the same way I do]

Not really.  It's easy to take that view in Oklahoma, but you are encountering this much opposition on a fairly conservative board in one of the most conservative states in the union.  If most people held this view, illegals could be rounded up and shot.  

There are nearly as many people that feel we should have open immigration as those that hold your view. Most people are in the middle but LEAN towards enforcement for various reasons.  

So lets pretend every illegal immigrant leaves Tulsa today.  What good have we accomplished?  My roof wont get fixed this season, construction in general comes to a stand still, phone books arent delivered, lawns arent mowed and most restaurants have no cooks.  Not the end of the world, but what, really - have we accomplished?  For what greater good?

I wish people would go through the process and come legally.  But our incompetent government has made it nearly impossible to do that even for highly skilled workers.  Not able to come legally, I cannot begrudge a father for coming to America in the hopes of a better life for his family.

And I am not one to shed tears over "broken families" when they knew that was a risk when they came.  It sucks to be put in that position, but enforcement of the laws is what it is.  Anyone who has read more than 5 of my posts knows that I am a pretty staunch libertarian.  I put more blame on our government for having a crappy immigration system (and policy) than on the immigrants.

So while I do not object too loudly to enforcement of the existing laws, I hope they are changed to better accommodate legal immigration.  We are a nation of immigrants.  Each wave was at first opposed, and later made us stronger.  I hope our laws change to let that continue on some level.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by restored2x

I was in a discussion like this a few weeks ago that was shut down by the admin. There was actually less name-calling in that discussion.

Does it actually make a point more logical and acceptable if you call someone a racist? What a cheap way out of an intelligent conversation.

No, insults removed.  

Noted:  restored2x didn't complain about "slaveowner left" or the concept that Hispanics are in any fashion "abnormal".  You're already showing your hand.