South County (tulsa)

[cannon_fodder]

That's it, I'm feeding hipno frog to my son's snake.  Wow, now that I actually typed that out, it sounds horribly perverted.  My son actually has a pretty large lizard.  Damnit, that didnt help.  I'll feed your frog avatar to my son's garter snake.  I think that works.  I give up.
- - - - -

Development does not have to start with leveling terrain.  Look at the area near Gilcrease.  Bulldozing everything and starting over is cheaper and faster than trying to build WITH the terrain.  It also yields more generic spaces that often lack character for 20 years or more.

Not saying it shouldn't be allowed, just not my cup of tea.  I wish Tulsa had area's like Dubuque, IA where the terrain was such you HAD to build around it.  Always leads to interesting architecture and neighborhoods.

[dbacks fan]

South County is the next in the "Sea of Sameness" or "Hey my neighborhood looks just like yours!"

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by intellerWind River doesn't look destroyed.  The destruction argument has always fallen short. Land leveling has to be done no matter where you build.

There is land that has already been developed within the city limits where people could live.  

all of the DESIREABLE developed land in Tulsa dried up years ago.

[izmophonik]

If you ever watch that McGraw show on Sunday morning you'll see some big wig with Simmons homes talking about some development in "South County" and I was just as in shock as you.. especially when he had the balls to say that Tulsa is moving south.  Here's a reality check guys, Jenks/Bixby/Broken Arrow have nothing ..NOTHING in the way of industry that can support their city alone.  They all have 5 bazillion people that live there but work in Tulsa. Why?  Because Simmons and the rest of the home builder cartel makes cookie cutter homes that are worth less than the dirt that they flattened to put them on.  The only reason people move out there is because the ratio of new home construction within the city of Tulsa is much lower than outside where there is plenty of beautiful land to mow down.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by izmophonik

If you ever watch that McGraw show on Sunday morning you'll see some big wig with Simmons homes talking about some development in "South County" and I was just as in shock as you.. especially when he had the balls to say that Tulsa is moving south.  Here's a reality check guys, Jenks/Bixby/Broken Arrow have nothing ..NOTHING in the way of industry that can support their city alone.  They all have 5 bazillion people that live there but work in Tulsa. Why?  Because Simmons and the rest of the home builder cartel makes cookie cutter homes that are worth less than the dirt that they flattened to put them on.  The only reason people move out there is because the ratio of new home construction within the city of Tulsa is much lower than outside where there is plenty of beautiful land to mow down.

omg you guys are cracking me up!  bwahahahahaha this is hilarious.  an outsider would think that they only build "cookie cutter" homes in the suburbs and all the homes inside tulsa are these custom built masterpieces...[}:)]  you want cookie cutter?  Go to frickin Lortondale you rube!  That might as well be the birth place of "cookie cutter".  And beautiful land to mow down?  Like Tulsa has never done that![}:)]  Pot, meet kettle.

[izmophonik]

Now you are putting words in my mouth.  I never said all homes in Tulsa are masterpieces. You just did though and that is not true.  I'm just making a point that happens to be true which is:  All new homes in the 3 cities I mentioned are cookie cutters and a 3 cities cannot survive on thier own because they have a population that is 5X the workforce since most of the population works in Tulsa.  Stop overreacting.

[izmophonik]

Inteller, are you just upset that $125.00 sq/ft. is the starting rate in Swan Lake and I got in at $75 a foot? (Multiply $50 x 2,500 and see how much equity I have) Or is is because your house might break even because there are 5 other neighborhoods around you that 25% of the buyers used the same floor plan as you in a neighborhood with no shopping, no entertainment, no night clubs??...Welcome to Suburbia.  Enjoy.  :-)

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by izmophonik

Inteller, are you just upset that $125.00 sq/ft. is the starting rate in Swan Lake and I got in at $75 a foot? (Multiply $50 x 2,500 and see how much equity I have) Or is is because your house might break even because there are 5 other neighborhoods around you that 25% of the buyers used the same floor plan as you in a neighborhood with no shopping, no entertainment, no night clubs??...Welcome to Suburbia.  Enjoy.  :-)

upset?  haha no I'm laughing my donkey off.  Last time I checked Jenks was preparing to GET the Drillers, not lose them.  You can have your narrow streets and failing infrastructure.  But you better watch out, cause according to the commercial all your furniture is going to move to SOuth COunty....or as I'll start calling it SOCO.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

omg you guys are cracking me up!  bwahahahahaha this is hilarious.  an outsider would think that they only build "cookie cutter" homes in the suburbs and all the homes inside tulsa are these custom built masterpieces...[}:)]  you want cookie cutter?  Go to frickin Lortondale you rube!  That might as well be the birth place of "cookie cutter".  And beautiful land to mow down?  Like Tulsa has never done that![}:)]  Pot, meet kettle.

Actually...that was pretty darn funny.[}:)]

quote:Originally posted by izmophonik

...the home builder cartel makes cookie cutter homes that are worth less than the dirt that they flattened to put them on.

Zing!

[Rowdy]

I've been here for a few years and some things never change.  People who moan and groan about the suburbs.  Well get over it.  I'm tired of hearing about how crappy Bixby, Glenpool and Owasso are. Also how some of you want to see those communities blown off the face of the earth and have your treasured downtown back.

The only reason we have the above mentioned communities is due to the success of Tulsa. I don't see separate communities.  I see it as one city. You'll have those who complain endlessly about the North Side.  Then you have those complain about downtown.  Then there is whining about the south side.  Some people need to get over it. Things are changing and some here will have to adjust and adapt to that change or perhaps they need to move just to save their sanity.

I have seen constructive criticism and then obtuse behavior towards anything developed south of 41st St. A lot of people live in the outlying communities such as myself.  It gets real old hearing how some here act holier than thou because of Tulsa's beloved past.  Well you need to get over yourselves. Yes I agree that without Tulsa, there wouldn't be these communities like I said.  However, change is change. You either adapt or move on.  I am all for building the Northside and downtown.  You won't see me putting down the folks who live in the Northside or live downtown. The area's not for me but it is for some people. Without all of us being spread out, there wouldnt be a NORTH-EAST-SOUTH-WESTside at all.

If downtown gets a better looking Walmart than the one built by me, then good for those downtown. But Im not going to treat others like we are separate countries. The only thing anyone can do is speak their mind in meetings and vote accordingly.  Otherwise eat some Lexapro.
[]

[cannon_fodder]

I'd just like to point out that Inteller called someone a "rube."   I think I am more in line with izmophonik's thought on this, but Inteller, that was funny.  An under utilized word to be sure.

[TheArtist]

You make a good point. I am willing to bet those areas that are now being developed would still be being developed if that land was in Tulsa. People arent moving over there just because its Jenks or Bixby. Its developing that way because thats the direction Tulsa has been developing and Tulsa has simply run out of room in that direction and the development has spilled over.  Don't say its because of the schools, those schools would mostly be the same regardless of whether they were in Tulsa or not because of the demographics.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

You make a good point. I am willing to bet those areas that are now being developed would still be being developed if that land was in Tulsa. People arent moving over there just because its Jenks or Bixby. Its developing that way because thats the direction Tulsa has been developing and Tulsa has simply run out of room in that direction and the development has spilled over.  Don't say its because of the schools, those schools would mostly be the same regardless of whether they were in Tulsa or not because of the demographics.

You don't want us to say it's because of the schools.  But hasn't development occurred in that direction primarily because of the schools, i.e., to avoid Tulsa Public Schools?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Rowdy

I've been here for a few years and some things never change.  People who moan and groan about the suburbs.  Well get over it.  I'm tired of hearing about how crappy Bixby, Glenpool and Owasso are. Also how some of you want to see those communities blown off the face of the earth and have your treasured downtown back.

The only reason we have the above mentioned communities is due to the success of Tulsa. I don't see separate communities.  I see it as one city. You'll have those who complain endlessly about the North Side.  Then you have those complain about downtown.  Then there is whining about the south side.  Some people need to get over it. Things are changing and some here will have to adjust and adapt to that change or perhaps they need to move just to save their sanity.

I have seen constructive criticism and then obtuse behavior towards anything developed south of 41st St. A lot of people live in the outlying communities such as myself.  It gets real old hearing how some here act holier than thou because of Tulsa's beloved past.  Well you need to get over yourselves. Yes I agree that without Tulsa, there wouldn't be these communities like I said.  However, change is change. You either adapt or move on.  I am all for building the Northside and downtown.  You won't see me putting down the folks who live in the Northside or live downtown. The area's not for me but it is for some people. Without all of us being spread out, there wouldnt be a NORTH-EAST-SOUTH-WESTside at all.

If downtown gets a better looking Walmart than the one built by me, then good for those downtown. But Im not going to treat others like we are separate countries. The only thing anyone can do is speak their mind in meetings and vote accordingly.  Otherwise eat some Lexapro.
[]

Yep, Rowdy.  You have an excellent point, the region is tied together more than people want to admit.  But it's the "South County" folks who have an identity crisis.  Why are they trying to disassociate themselves from Tulsa?

The Mayor of Louisville, Jerry Abramson, once said, "You can't be a suburb of nowhere."  But this is much more than an effort to create an "identity" out of a suburban template.  It's about money.  These "South County" communities are filled with people who use Tulsa everyday:  they have jobs in Tulsa; they drive the streets in Tulsa, they drink water secured and cleaned by Tulsa; they flush using pipes that feed into Tulsa; they can drive a short distance to big hospitals, shopping centers, and first-class restaurants.  Tulsa literally financed their growth over the decades through the TMUA.  And on every level, without Tulsa, they'd be no-place.  Tulsa's been an excellent neighbor for decades, but now Tulsa's stressed.  It's time to pull together, but instead, they ratchet up the pressure.  Threatening to buy water from some dumb creek out east, excluding poor populations, and throwing up oversized supercenters to "funnel" (siphon) people headed to Tulsa.

Everybody knows that if Tulsa loses, they lose too.  And everybody knows that cities aren't private companies.  Cities are there to serve the public good, not to kill the competition.  Is Tulsa entitled to more than it's fair share...heck, no.  But Tulsa is not a "freebie" for these guys, either.  "One big city" is a nice idea, one big happy family is the way it should be.  But right now, the kids are shopping for a nursing home...and that ain't right.  If they aren't careful, they could get written out of the will.

[swake]

I would like to point out that the cities don't have anything to do with this, this is a group of developers.