The Tulsa Premium

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

The marketers and refiners keep claiming it's our special blended fuel which is responsible for keeping us higher than other parts of the state.

Well, doesn't that make sense?  If you have a "special" blend, as we do because of previous ozone issues, then, all things being equal, this blend is going to cost more, right?

Pretty much what I said, CL.

However, that is a "summertime" blend.  Still doesn't explain why gas was .10 cheaper in OKC last winter.

I find this very intersting because we use the same type blended gas in Phoenix and I have found gas near my house at $2.39/gallon. (Use 85024 for the zip code on gasbuddy.com) Diesel price here are close to what Tulsa has. It is interesting that the southwest US now has the lowest prices and we don't have a single refinery in the state of Arizona, our gas comes from Houston and southern California.

Gas taxes by state:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gas_taxes_by_state_2002.html

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by dbacks fan

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

The marketers and refiners keep claiming it's our special blended fuel which is responsible for keeping us higher than other parts of the state.

Well, doesn't that make sense?  If you have a "special" blend, as we do because of previous ozone issues, then, all things being equal, this blend is going to cost more, right?

Pretty much what I said, CL.

However, that is a "summertime" blend.  Still doesn't explain why gas was .10 cheaper in OKC last winter.

I find this very intersting because we use the same type blended gas in Phoenix and I have found gas near my house at $2.39/gallon. (Use 85024 for the zip code on gasbuddy.com) Diesel price here are close to what Tulsa has. It is interesting that the southwest US now has the lowest prices and we don't have a single refinery in the state of Arizona, our gas comes from Houston and southern California.

Gas taxes by state:

http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/statistics/gas_taxes_by_state_2002.html

Tulsa uses Re-oxygenated fuel from June 1 to September 15 -the summer driving months.

HOWEVER, Tulsa's "boutique" blend of Re-oxygenated fuel is unlike any other blend in the U.S., as measured by the Reid Vapor Pressure, which is how Re-oxygenated fuel is measured.

Allegedly, Tulsa has an air quality problem.  So, as an "settlement", a tri-party agreement
was signed between the EPA, the City of Tulsa (Mayor Savage), and the local refineries.

The local refineries were Sooooooooooo happy to sign for at least 3 reasons:

1)  It was acknowledged that due to higher "costs" to produce the blend, that they would get to charge a few cents per gallon more.

2)  By agreement to a Reid Vapor Pressure of 7.75, which is a slightly different level that ANY OTHER City in the U.S., the Refiners knew they would be gaining a mini-monopoly.  

How?  Excess capacity in the other refineries in Ponca City, Coffeyville, and Fort Smith would ordinarily mean that they would send their fuel to a large out-of-area market.  But, with Tulsa's boutique blend, they were put in a position of making MULTIPLE fuel blends.  An additional operational hurdle, and one entailing additional costs.

3).  Our local refiners are such good corporate citizens.  Emitting the noxious fumes that they do daily release, and also periodically creating "controlled burns" called "fires" of highly toxic petroleum by-products which they store until an opportune moment, and that blacken the skies of mid-town and downtown, they just want the air to be cleaner like everyone else.


[]

[Conan71]

Recycle needs to chime in, but I thought I'd heard or read that the only place our particular blend was blended was in Houston, and that we don't get local fuel from Sinclair during the summer is that right or am I suffering from second-hand crack smoke?

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Recycle needs to chime in, but I thought I'd heard or read that the only place our particular blend was blended was in Houston, and that we don't get local fuel from Sinclair during the summer is that right or am I suffering from second-hand crack smoke?

You are correct from what I have read, our blend is rare, but not unique. Memphis and Houston at least use it. And the local refineries do not produce it.  

There's nothing dirty about less competition equals higher prices, it just how the world works. Businesses are in the business of making money. But, it leaves an opening for a new gasoline retailer to enter the market. Which is exactly what it looks like Kum and Go is doing right now with all the stores they are building.

[Conan71]

All the retailers appear to be in lock-step when it comes to pricing.  It usually seems that Shell is a few hours ahead of QT when it comes to increases.

Used to be you could drive a mile or two and save a few cents a gallon.  Not anymore.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Recycle needs to chime in, but I thought I'd heard or read that the only place our particular blend was blended was in Houston, and that we don't get local fuel from Sinclair during the summer is that right or am I suffering from second-hand crack smoke?

You are correct from what I have read, our blend is rare, but not unique. Memphis and Houston at least use it. And the local refineries do not produce it.  

There's nothing dirty about less competition equals higher prices, it just how the world works. Businesses are in the business of making money. But, it leaves an opening for a new gasoline retailer to enter the market. Which is exactly what it looks like Kum and Go is doing right now with all the stores they are building.

And, the question still, why is Tulsa's gasoline so high compared to other cities cited in this thread, to its historically being the lowest in the U.S.??

The Answer is _____________________  .

Chester the Jester??

[YoungTulsan]

Why the hell doesn't Tulsa switch to an even cleaner burning, but more common and apparently less costly, blend than we are using now?  Makes no sense to me when I hear we use some unique blend to meet a certain standard while there are CLEANER standards out there.

Maybe we should all run our lawn mowers on Ozone alert days so we can get on that dirty air list and get some cheaper gas (kidding, yes, but it seems to be our situation.  How do we go about mandating a cleaner blend of gas without exceeding?)

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

$2.48 just outside St. Louis last night.

Hmmmm? Makes ya wonder.

Saw it (and bought it) cheaper at a run down mom and pop station outside Poplar Bluff Mo.

[Conan71]

There is a mom and pop convenience store at 15th & Columbia who used to be a few pennies cheaper.  They recently pulled their tanks and pumps.  Not that I ever used them.  I don't have the same level of trust for tank maintenance on M & P operations as I do with larger retailers.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Why the hell doesn't Tulsa switch to an even cleaner burning, but more common and apparently less costly, blend than we are using now?  Makes no sense to me when I hear we use some unique blend to meet a certain standard while there are CLEANER standards out there.

Maybe we should all run our lawn mowers on Ozone alert days so we can get on that dirty air list and get some cheaper gas (kidding, yes, but it seems to be our situation.  How do we go about mandating a cleaner blend of gas without exceeding?)

I would happily settle for the same Reid Vapor Pressure re-oxygenated fuel sold in Dallas.

Using their fuel blend would theoretically LOWER our prices, due to economy of scale.

Then again, there's the whimsy of Chester the Jester to contend with..........

[]

[Steve]

Gasoline is an inelastic commodity, that is demand does not fall proportionate to price increases.
Gasoline retailers in Tulsa will charge whatever price the market will bear, given their wholesale cost.  There is nothing illegal going on I think, just good old supply and demand at work.  Isn't that the "American Way?"
The only way gasoline prices are going to significantly fall permanently is for the driving public to decrease demand on a long-term basis.  As long as we keep driving gas-hog vehicles and such and demand continues to rise, gas prices will continue to rise too.  I think demand is much more of a factor in gas prices than supply.

[MichaelBates]

Missouri has always had cheaper gas than Oklahoma.

I noticed gas was 10-cent cheaper last Saturday in Bartlesville than in Tulsa. I figured that it was because B'ville is outside the Tulsa emissions management boundary.

And it seems like I heard that Coffeyville is one of the refineries that made Tulsa's special blend.

I say blame the feds for creating barriers to supply and demand by requiring so many distinct, not-quite-the-same blends to be sold around the country.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

Gasoline is an inelastic commodity, that is demand does not fall proportionate to price increases.
Gasoline retailers in Tulsa will charge whatever price the market will bear, given their wholesale cost.  There is nothing illegal going on I think, just good old supply and demand at work.  Isn't that the "American Way?"
The only way gasoline prices are going to significantly fall permanently is for the driving public to decrease demand on a long-term basis.  As long as we keep driving gas-hog vehicles and such and demand continues to rise, gas prices will continue to rise too.  I think demand is much more of a factor in gas prices than supply.

Well, those that control the Supply have a very strong incentive to LIE about what level of both crude supplies and refined fuel are actually on hand.  

WHY?

To inculcate a belief that there is SCARCITY.
And, drive up the price, of course.

We hear weekly that the supply of crude or the supply of fuel is lower than the level a year ago.

Well, with crude prices HIGH, it makes since from an inventory basis to maintain a little of the high priced feedstock as possible.

George W. Bush was put in the White House by the Energy Industry.

And, they have been rewarded handsomely.

[!]

[YoungTulsan]

Somewhat related, somewhat not:

I just saw some guy at QT put $3.00 worth of gas into his Chevy Suburban and drive away.  It was like 1.05 gallons of regular unleaded, he would have made it like 5 miles.  Are people that broke?  I thought I was bad only putting $25 in (about half a tank)

On the topic of the refineries: Last night there was a chokingly large amount of toxic gas in the air along the river and Brookside area.  It was enough for me to at first question why everything smelled like WD-40, and then proceed to have my eyes and nose burn a bit.

[dbacks fan]

From the EPA the list of states and the maximum Reid vapor pressure limits.

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/420b07007.pdf