Is the name now: Tulsa, BOK or QT

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

CP:












Question #1. Why do you think a company is willing to pay tens of millions of dollars to put their name on an arena?
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They are able to place their name on a public building that cost millions to build for a fraction of what a sign board would cost.  Second: the money they are paying is well covered by the interest the public will pay to them on the back door loan guaranteed  by the mortgage on the public owned airport.  3trd: If they are such good citizens then let the have a mortgage burning regalia and take those millions of dollars of debts off the shoulders of the working poor,   Fourth they would have so supposedly have a sign permit to build a sign board of that size,   Shall I go on with the whole story?
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Question #2. How is the naming rights practice being abused?
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2: The reincarnation of following the  trail of the money is available to anyone that can reason.  There are many corporations who would be interested  in free advertisement by pasting their logo on millions of dollars in taxpayers investments in building built by the public tax money . Second: The Caste system that the founders though they could prohibit, is in full force in the Tulsa political community.  Third: Such incidents as the naming of public buildings is used to eliminate other competition by outbidding , in long drawn out plans. By the caste system , when buying such naming rights with the public's own money.  (refer back to question  #1)
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3. I never advocated for the city to be known by any other name. Does anyone forget the name Chicago because United named their arena? Or does anyone accidentally call Minneapolis "Target?" Never heard anyone call Dallas "American Airlines" by mistake either. That notion is just plain stupid.
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3: True you cite rare incidents of named arenas but that does not answer the QT Center naming.  Second: Dallas is not known as American Airlines but in the past and present the taxpayer contribution to the Tulsa's AA and their owners should include their logo on the new real-estate/city hall venture of the city by installing a by-pass route for these workers from the burbs to salute as they leave town with their pay checks to spend elsewhere.  

The word "Stupid" can be used in many ways.

OK cant resist.

(1.)   It costs about 1500 dollars a month for a Bilboard.  QT gave 2.6 million for 10 year naming rights.  It would take 144 years at 1500 dollars a month to equal 2.6 million.  Its not cheaper to put your name on a bilboard than the IPE building.  BOK paid 11 million for 20 years.

(2.)  If there are so many corporations who would love to avail themselves of what you call "free advertising" by purchasing naming rights. Nobody is trying to stop them, the more competing and bidding the better. More competition will mean that building can command a higher price for the naming rights. BOK was the highest bidder.

(3.)  Rare incidents of named arenas?  I would say its far more rare to have an arena, performing arts center, or other large public/entertainment type building that does cary the cities name. And if American Airlines wants to pay the city millions for naming rights to the new city hall. More power to them. I would say go for it. Take their money and run. Better than us giving them money.  

If QT wanted to give me 2.6 mill, I would change my name to QT and tattoo QT on my forehead, donkey, or any other body part they wanted. For 2.6mill, I aint too proud. []

Speaking of performing arts centers. Perhaps we could find a corporation or individual who would donate to ours and receive naming rights. It could use some more architectural flash on the outside and I am sure some improvements on the inside. I think Fort Worths "Bass Hall"  is neat with those huge angels on the side. http://www.basshall.com/indexa.html

[shadows]

ART:
#1 In heavens name where can you rent a multi-million dollar bill board to display a name on for 1,500 dollars a month.  We are not talking about bill boards but multi-million dollar public structures being use as bill boards at the citizens expense.  I don't believe that the amount of money would even keep the roof in repair.

#2 In this follow the money game the inside traders seem to have the money in place before the bidding even starts.  In the card games this is called "Buying the Pot".  I would believe that you are looking to tax that guy behind the tree and pass it on the rich corporations.

#3 I believe if you look back over the records when Douglas wanted to buy the building that AA is in and made an offer to the general services, there was a outcry from the in-house at city hall.  Instead  AA was taken on with the sweetheart dealings that I believe the company now enjoy the perks maintained by the working poor working at below the poverty level.  Believe the word is subsidized.

Before you start the tattooing binge I might suggest that you inspect the conditions on what is entailed by the agreement to make a sign board out of the public owned building.

[cannon_fodder]

What TheArtist said  +1
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K, I wrote out a substantive answer to each response.  I then decided that it would have no effect, so I'll just post a couple amusing things.

quote:
Third: Such incidents as the naming of public buildings is used to eliminate other competition by outbidding , in long drawn out plans. By the caste system , when buying such naming rights with the public's own money. (refer back to question #1)

Syntax error (incidents is), superfluous language ("Such incidents as" & "other" before competition are totally unneeded words), erroneous possessive state (public does not have a possessive state, it should read "public monies"), duplicative possession (if the public had money, of course it is its own), incomplete sentence (last sentence lacks s subject... I think).

What does the clause "in long drawn out plans" have to do with anything?  Or "By the Caste System?" Seriously, this is the most illogical pairing of horrible clauses ever.  I have no idea what you are talking about and I'm guessing I'm not alone.

quote:
3: True you cite rare incidents of named arenas

If only I could think of other Arena's that sold their naming rights:
1st Mariner Arena
Allstate Arena
AmericanAirlines Arena
American Airlines Center
Amway Arena
ARCO Arena
AT&T Center
BankAtlantic Center
Bradley Center
Blue Cross Arena
Compuware Arena
Conseco Fieldhouse
Continental Airlines Arena
EnergySolutions Arena
FedExForum
Ford Center
Frank Erwin Center
Honda Center
HP Pavilion at San Jose
HSBC Arena
Jobing.com Arena
Joe Louis Arena
KeyArena
Madison Square Garden
Mellon Arena
Mohegan Sun Arena
Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum
Nationwide Arena
Oracle Arena
Pepsi Center
Philips Arena
Prudential Center
Quicken Loans Arena
RBC Center
Sears Centre
Scottrade Center
Sommet Center
Sprint Center
St. Pete Times Forum
Staples Center
Stockton Arena
Target Center
TD Banknorth Garden
Toyota Center
UIC Pavilion
United Center
Verizon Center
US Airways Center
U.S. Cellular Arena
Van Andel Arena
Wachovia Center
Wachovia Spectrum
Well's Fargo Arena
Xcel Energy Center

What me to do MLB stadiums?

The fact is Shadows, that you have NO CLUE what you are talking about.  Of the major indoor arena's in the United States only the Charlotte Bobcats Arena, New Orleans Arena and the Palace of Auburn Hills have the cities name.  And 2 of those are because their naming rights contract expired and they have not found a new partner.  

It is VERY clear that you are clueless in this area and are swinging blind.  Please, I advise you to stop before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

quote:Second: Dallas is not known as American Airlines but in the past and present the taxpayer contribution to the Tulsa's AA and their owners should include their logo on the new real-estate/city hall venture of the city by installing a by-pass route for these workers from the burbs to salute as they leave town with their pay checks to spend elsewhere.

The word "Stupid" can be used in many ways.

First, congratulations on breaking the 50 word barrier with one sentence.  Were you trying to make an actual point, or trying to be ironic there?  

[shadows]

Artist:
If QT wanted to give me 2.6 mill, I would change my name to QT and tattoo QT on my forehead, donkey, or any other body part they wanted. For 2.6mill, I aint too proud.
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Was it not Faustus in past mythology that believe the same way?

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

ART:
#1 In heavens name where can you rent a multi-million dollar bill board to display a name on for 1,500 dollars a month.  We are not talking about bill boards but multi-million dollar public structures being use as bill boards at the citizens expense.  I don't believe that the amount of money would even keep the roof in repair.

#2 In this follow the money game the inside traders seem to have the money in place before the bidding even starts.  In the card games this is called "Buying the Pot".  I would believe that you are looking to tax that guy behind the tree and pass it on the rich corporations.

#3 I believe if you look back over the records when Douglas wanted to buy the building that AA is in and made an offer to the general services, there was a outcry from the in-house at city hall.  Instead  AA was taken on with the sweetheart dealings that I believe the company now enjoy the perks maintained by the working poor working at below the poverty level.  Believe the word is subsidized.

Before you start the tattooing binge I might suggest that you inspect the conditions on what is entailed by the agreement to make a sign board out of the public owned building.

(1.) How is it at the citizens expense?  What good would it do us to have our name on it and lose 11 million in extra funds? Everyone is going to immediately know the BOK center is in Tulsa. If its the Tulsa Arena they arent going to immediately think that BOK is here. So its more of a benefit to a company to have their name on this multi million dollar billboard than for us.

Plus do we really think we would get 11 million dollars worth of exposure on top of the exposure we are going to be getting even with it called the BOK Center? Tulsa will get immediate "bill board exposure" with this arena regardless of what it is called. Would you rather us basically spend 11 million MORE dollars to have our name on it for some imagined added exposure?

(2.)  Show me evidence that there was any other company that was interested and was offering a better deal. Otherwise I am not going to believe in some conspiracy theory. Just one other company.

(3.) What on earth does this have to do with the BOK Center or the QT Center or the naming rights of City Hall? Quit squirming all over the place like a dying snake with its head cut off. If you have a beef with that matter, start a different thread.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

Artist:
If QT wanted to give me 2.6 mill, I would change my name to QT and tattoo QT on my forehead, donkey, or any other body part they wanted. For 2.6mill, I aint too proud.
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Was it not Faustus in past mythology that believe the same way?

No, it wasn't.  He lost his soul for material gains.  Not his forehead or donkey.

Stop typing like that.

[cannon_fodder]

Good point Townsend, I believe the term Shadows was looking for was prostitute.  He could have even worked in a bible reference to keep it cryptic.  And everyone's a whore for some price, for $2.2mil I'd have anything I can think of tattooed on my donkey (yes, even a picture of Larry Craigs hand).  If anyone from BOk is reading this and interested for some reason, my rate is negotiable.

[RecycleMichael]

Money is the root of all evil.

Send $9.95 for more information.

[bokworker]

Cf.. please post a pic of your butt and we'll get back to you....

[Johnboy976]

Is this typical for you guys over at BOK?

[bokworker]

Johnboy.... is what typical? Having a sense of humor?

[shadows]

Since the area employment is quote as 430,000 and the city population as 382,000 which includes children and the unemployed, I would assume that all this discussion is from the minority sector of the citizens of Tulsa.

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CP quoted: I'd have anything I can think of tattooed on my donkey
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Guess to some there would be no relationship between Faustus selling his soul to the devil for material possessions and CP selling his tattooed a$$ for sign purposes to sway the opinions of others.

[cannon_fodder]

My god Shadows, you really cannot see the difference between selling your SOUL to Satan and having BOk tattooed on ones donkey?

Let me explain the differences.  First, a SOUL is believed to be eternal.  The sale of the soul would indicate a willingness to give up eternity for current world pleasure.  Its symbolic of humans lust for immediate gratification, even at the cost of future benefit.  

An donkey is a commonly mocked and usually hidden part of the human body.  Few ever see ones donkey.   Also, an donkey is as temporary as our mortality.  So the possession of wealth would presumably last as long as ones possession of their donkey.

Satan is the semblance of an evil being in Western mythology.  Selling ones soul to Satan would also, presumably, prohibit entry into judeo/Christian heaven.   In addition, it is presumed that any "deal with the devil" will be a bad one on the human end of the bargain. BOk is just a bank.

Now do you see the difference between RM selling his donkey to a bank and Faustus selling his soil to Satan?  If not, there is really no need to EVER try to reason with you.

[RecycleMichael]

It wasn't me selling my donkey as advertising to a bank. It was Artist.

I was thinking of selling the other side to a restaurant...my tattoo would say "Home of the Whopper".

[bokworker]

RM... don't forget to add "Have it your way"...