Maybe this "Surge" thing is working...

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

To all who say this is "hopeless" or things aren't improving...

That group does not include me.  Things are improving somewhat, and there's always hope.  But, hope is not a strategy.  There are things that we know: 1) We cannot sustain the surge indefinitely, in fact, we'll need to begin to draw down to previous levels within a few months...that jerk Al-Sadr knows this, too; and 2) The Iraqi Government is not using this precious time improve their own lot.  The "surge" is simply that, a temporary increase in troop levels.  Everybody knows this.  The fact that Al-Sadr and the radical Shiites may take a few months off may simply indicate that time is on their side.

I hope for the best, of course I do.  I hope that religious extremism goes out of style at exactly 4 'o clock this afternoon and never comes back.  I hope that every AK-47 owner on the planet trades his weapon for an Xbox and get's hooked on Madden.  And I hope that the surge works.  

But, at the same time, it seems clear that the surge is not going to be enough for long enough.  I don't think we need to spill American blood to forestall an inevitable conflagration.

[iplaw]

quote:The Iraqi Government is not using this precious time improve their own lot.

I think that VOA article I linked to is in disagreement with your position.  They have somehow managed talk Al-Sadr into a cease-fire for at least 6 months and they are working on getting other factions to come to the table as well.  Certainly not an insignificant turn of events.

We may need to draw down due to limits on deployment, but leaving doesn't seem to be a very palatable idea either, at least from a humanitarian POV, especially since Iran has now stated that they are "willing and ready to step into the power vacuum" when and if we leave.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little



I hope for the best, of course I do.  I hope that religious extremism goes out of style at exactly 4 'o clock this afternoon and never comes back.  I hope that every AK-47 owner on the planet trades his weapon for an Xbox and get's hooked on Madden.  And I hope that the surge works.  

As they say: "Hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills up first."

I can't stand Madden or X-box.  I like my small armory. []

[cannon_fodder]

<--- AK-47 owner.  Not trading.  An X-Box will not help me when I have to overthrow Hillary. []

But no, in all honesty... I've owned significant firearms (8mm Mausers, AK-47, .223 Remington, 12 Gauge, and on...) and have never even shot AT anyone.  Held a car thief at gunpoint until the cops came one time, but never got a chance to shoot him.

Iraqi's just got the right to bear arms in their own homes.  If I lived in Iraq, I would damn sure be armed within the law (outside the law is a good way to get killed by US forces).  The demand for security is such that a single round for an AK is 90 cents.... 9 times the going rate.  Hopefully that will not be needed in the near future, just like my firearms are not a mandatory security measure here.

[Chicken Little]

The reports I've heard seem to indicate that Al-Sadr's decision was independent, that he may be reacting to the results of a recent gunbattle where 50 were killed.  He's pulled back before...it could be a tactical or strategic move on his part.  Who knows, the guy is as crazy as a pet squirrel.

Nevertheless, he has called on all others to cease fire, too.  I'm still not sure that Al-Sadr's move was prompted by the Iraqi gov't or the surge, but yes, if others take a few months off, that is most definitely a hopeful sign.

As for the humanitarian fallout and the future of Iran in that country, Al-Sadr proved today that those are Iraqi choices.

[Breadburner]

I have been shot at once... I have Taken a pistol away from a guy that was going to shoot someone...And been peppered in the field while hunting, none of it was fun....But If I could have shot back it would have made me feel better......[}:)]


P.S. Sgrizz thanks for the laugh...heh...

[Rico]

“tell me that if the kind of success we are now seeing here continues, it will be possible to maintain the same level of security with fewer American forces.�

“I urge members of both parties in Congress to listen to what they have to say,� the president said. “Congress shouldn’t jump to conclusions until the general and the ambassador report.�

^
It is now going to be his decision....

Does he flip a coin at times like this or get out the Ouija Board....?

Decisions decisions.... Best left to the "deciderer"....
[}:)]

[iplaw]

quote:It is now going to be his decision....

M'kay...

Nearest I can tell from my public school ejumication in civics...he IS the one that makes that decision.  Who else is supposed to...YOU? [}:)]

[Chicken Little]

From LA Times

quote:Troop buildup fails to reconcile Iraq
BAGHDAD -- The U.S. military buildup that was supposed to calm Baghdad and other trouble spots has failed to usher in national reconciliation, as the capital's neighborhoods rupture even further along sectarian lines, violence shifts elsewhere and Iraq's government remains mired in political infighting.

In the coming days, U.S. military and government leaders will offer Congress their assessment of the 6-month-old plan's results. But a review of statistics on death and displacement, political developments and the impressions of Iraqis who are living under the heightened military presence reaches a dispiriting conclusion.

Despite the plan, which has brought an additional 28,500 U.S. troops to Iraq since February, none of the major legislation that Washington had expected the Iraqi parliament to pass into law has been approved.

The number of Iraqis fleeing their homes has increased, not decreased, according to the United Nations' International Organization for Migration and Iraq's Ministry for Displacement and Migration...

[more]

quote: ...Pouring troops into the capital is no doubt going to make some areas safer, said one Marine officer, who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the upcoming assessment.

"I don't know anyone who said, 'Let's have an argument on whether 20,000 troops can have an impact on some neighborhoods,' " the officer said. "I heard a debate about whether a 20,000-man surge would appreciably enhance the security of the Iraqi people and end the sectarian violence so political reconciliation could occur across the country, not just in Baghdad neighborhoods...

Exactly!

[iplaw]

Oh boy! an LA Times article...Al-Jazeera website down today?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Oh boy! an LA Times article...Al-Jazeera website down today?

Very funny.  The LA Times is one of only a handful of news agencies that maintains a Baghdad bureau.  Where would you prefer to get your news IP?

[iplaw]

I like the Chicago Sun-Times...but they're all equally poor for reporting nowadays.  I think the days of honest and unbiased news reporting are long gone.  It's hard to find good reliable news anywhere.

I like to read news from multiple sources in an effort to get all sides of the issue.

LA Times is one of the most dishonest papers in the US, IMO.  For every story that makes one point, I can find three others that come to the opposite conclusion.

In other words, I tend to take all newspapers with a grain of salt.

[Chicken Little]

From Chicago Sun-Times

quote: Invest in U.S. instead of sacrificing in Iraq

September 4, 2007
JESSE JACKSON jjackson@rainbowpush.org  

Heh. []

Other than that, on Iraq, it's a bunch of AP reprints for the last week.  I like the Chicago Sun-Times, too.  But if they don't have the story, then they don't have it.

[iplaw]

And we know how reliable the AP is...maybe they just doctor their photos...or was that Reuters?  Either way, I've given up on newspapers to get anything right anymore.

[rwarn17588]

I'd get my news from McClatchy News Bureau. They have reporters in Iraq, and it was the only bureau that got it right in the run-up to the Iraq war. Namely, they figured out there were very likely no WMDs in Iraq.

http://www.ajr.org/article_printable.asp?id=3725