Downtown Development

[claygate39]

I am continually surprised how naïve many of the poster are in this forum about downtown development.

Although I live on the east coast, I monitor development in other places in the US where I lived while working for a major oil company. One of those places was Houston (lived there twice) and another is Austin since my daughter lives there now.

During the past few days two items in the papers caught my eye. In the Houston Chronicle they mentioned that no fewer than five luxury mixed use developments are going up near downtown and two new office towers are going up downtown. A front page article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday titled "Luxurytown USA" profiled a new luxury mixed use area in Austin called the "Domain" near downtown that is home to many upscale NY retailers. Both articles attributed all these developments to the proximity of high paying corporate and technical jobs in both cities.

The lesson for Tulsa is clear. An arena will not do it nor will a grocery store downtown. What will do it is a couple of Fortune 500 headquarters located downtown. It is the high paying jobs that do it. Locating WalMart downtown is a joke and embarrassing to boot.

[aoxamaxoa]

Which is precisely why the Ice Cube deal sux....

The building should be sold to a Fortune 500 company....

And the city should stay out of the way of capitalism and free enterprise.

Great post.

[YoungTulsan]

Alright man, I'll put up a nice big sign saying "Wanted: Fortune 500 company" prominently downtown.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Alright man, I'll put up a nice big sign saying "Wanted: Fortune 500 company" prominently downtown.

actually that might cause enough red faces in the right places to get something going.  

See if you can find a vacant office owner downtown that would let you put that up.  If you do I will assist in paying for the sign.

[TheArtist]

I would think that we arent putting all our downtown bets on a wal-mart or even the arena. There are a lot of things going on in our downtown. Small steps but at least in a positive direction lately, which is a hopeful change in itself. Yes indeed it would be nice to have some fortune 500 companies downtown. Since you are so wise and we so naive,,, what do you think we should do to get those fortune 500 headquarters to locate in our downtown instead of places like Austin or Houston?

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by claygate39

I am continually surprised how naïve many of the poster are in this forum about downtown development.

Although I live on the east coast, I monitor development in other places in the US where I lived while working for a major oil company. One of those places was Houston (lived there twice) and another is Austin since my daughter lives there now.

During the past few days two items in the papers caught my eye. In the Houston Chronicle they mentioned that no fewer than five luxury mixed use developments are going up near downtown and two new office towers are going up downtown. A front page article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday titled "Luxurytown USA" profiled a new luxury mixed use area in Austin called the "Domain" near downtown that is home to many upscale NY retailers. Both articles attributed all these developments to the proximity of high paying corporate and technical jobs in both cities.

The lesson for Tulsa is clear. An arena will not do it nor will a grocery store downtown. What will do it is a couple of Fortune 500 headquarters located downtown. It is the high paying jobs that do it. Locating WalMart downtown is a joke and embarrassing to boot.

No sh*t, sherlock.  What, you think Tulsa doesn't know it needs workers downtown?  Given that global pressures have pulled employers like yours OUT of our city, one way to recover is to gradually turn our downtown from a 9-5 office park into a more viable, 24-hr neighborhood.

What's your point?  Is your suggestion that Tulsa pull a Fortune 500 company out of its donkey?    Or is your point that since this isn't going to happen, the city should give up on any sort of development in the loop?

You're the naive one, brother.  Enjoy your "east coast" home.  What is it, Galveston?  [}:)]

[claygate39]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by claygate39

I am continually surprised how naïve many of the poster are in this forum about downtown development.

Although I live on the east coast, I monitor development in other places in the US where I lived while working for a major oil company. One of those places was Houston (lived there twice) and another is Austin since my daughter lives there now.

During the past few days two items in the papers caught my eye. In the Houston Chronicle they mentioned that no fewer than five luxury mixed use developments are going up near downtown and two new office towers are going up downtown. A front page article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday titled "Luxurytown USA" profiled a new luxury mixed use area in Austin called the "Domain" near downtown that is home to many upscale NY retailers. Both articles attributed all these developments to the proximity of high paying corporate and technical jobs in both cities.

The lesson for Tulsa is clear. An arena will not do it nor will a grocery store downtown. What will do it is a couple of Fortune 500 headquarters located downtown. It is the high paying jobs that do it. Locating WalMart downtown is a joke and embarrassing to boot.

No sh*t, sherlock.  What, you think Tulsa doesn't know it needs workers downtown?  Given that global pressures have pulled employers like yours OUT of our city, one way to recover is to gradually turn our downtown from a 9-5 office park into a more viable, 24-hr neighborhood.

What's your point?  Is your suggestion that Tulsa pull a Fortune 500 company out of its donkey?    Or is your point that since this isn't going to happen, the city should give up on any sort of development in the loop?

You're the naive one, brother.  Enjoy your "east coast" home.  What is it, Galveston?  [}:)]

My employer was never in Tulsa -- they had their offices in NYC for many years before moving to the Dallas area (ie, Irving).

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by claygate39

I am continually surprised how naïve many of the poster are in this forum about downtown development.

Although I live on the east coast, I monitor development in other places in the US where I lived while working for a major oil company. One of those places was Houston (lived there twice) and another is Austin since my daughter lives there now.

During the past few days two items in the papers caught my eye. In the Houston Chronicle they mentioned that no fewer than five luxury mixed use developments are going up near downtown and two new office towers are going up downtown. A front page article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday titled "Luxurytown USA" profiled a new luxury mixed use area in Austin called the "Domain" near downtown that is home to many upscale NY retailers. Both articles attributed all these developments to the proximity of high paying corporate and technical jobs in both cities.

The lesson for Tulsa is clear. An arena will not do it nor will a grocery store downtown. What will do it is a couple of Fortune 500 headquarters located downtown. It is the high paying jobs that do it. Locating WalMart downtown is a joke and embarrassing to boot.

The Domain is nowhere NEAR downtown Austin.

[bacjz00]

Not sure how this thread has gone this long without the obvious being stated...

Tulsa already has a couple of Fortune 500 companies downtown.  ONEOK and Williams.

The 2 largest companies in the state in fact and both are actually rated closer to the top 200 nationally.  Of course not trying to miss the point entirely, I suppose we could use a few more. You can never have TOO much private money to throw around.

Fortune 500 - CNN

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by claygate39

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by claygate39

I am continually surprised how na�ve many of the poster are in this forum about downtown development.

Although I live on the east coast, I monitor development in other places in the US where I lived while working for a major oil company. One of those places was Houston (lived there twice) and another is Austin since my daughter lives there now.

During the past few days two items in the papers caught my eye. In the Houston Chronicle they mentioned that no fewer than five luxury mixed use developments are going up near downtown and two new office towers are going up downtown. A front page article in the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday titled �Luxurytown USA� profiled a new luxury mixed use area in Austin called the �Domain� near downtown that is home to many upscale NY retailers. Both articles attributed all these developments to the proximity of high paying corporate and technical jobs in both cities.

The lesson for Tulsa is clear. An arena will not do it nor will a grocery store downtown. What will do it is a couple of Fortune 500 headquarters located downtown. It is the high paying jobs that do it. Locating WalMart downtown is a joke and embarrassing to boot.

No sh*t, sherlock.  What, you think Tulsa doesn't know it needs workers downtown?  Given that global pressures have pulled employers like yours OUT of our city, one way to recover is to gradually turn our downtown from a 9-5 office park into a more viable, 24-hr neighborhood.

What's your point?  Is your suggestion that Tulsa pull a Fortune 500 company out of its donkey?    Or is your point that since this isn't going to happen, the city should give up on any sort of development in the loop?

You're the naive one, brother.  Enjoy your "east coast" home.  What is it, Galveston?  [}:)]

My employer was never in Tulsa -- they had their offices in NYC for many years before moving to the Dallas area (ie, Irving).

Is that you man...?

[USRufnex]

I think the above poster is the naive one here.
Houston, eh?  Do you know DAVAZ?

If you're in the oil industry, then you should already know that Tulsa used to be the "Oil Capital of the World."  The title now belongs to Houston for a multitude of reasons... and it's been that way for awhile now.

Tulsa has tried.  Tulsans voted for additional Vision2025 taxes as a bribe, er, uh.... an incentive for Boeing to come here...

Tulsa also had these guys who were going to build the type of "luxury" mixed-use project many Tulsans wanted for downtown...

http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/EastEnd.html

quote:Global Development Partners announces a dynamic urban lifestyle environment, the East End in Downtown Tulsa, Oklahoma. Encompassing over 14 city blocks, the East End connects Tulsa's revitalizing Downtown to the affluent Mid-Town district of the City creating a destination that will serve a 100 mile regional trade area of over 2,500,000 people...

From promising beginnings...

  --Summer 2005
http://www.aegworldwide.com/news/aeg_news_050728.html

quote:About Global Sports and Entertainment and Global Development Partners

GSE and GDP are sister companies which will work together to marry sports teams and state-of-the-art facilities with innovative mixed use development concepts, especially in urban environments. The companies are working on a number of projects in cities around the United States and abroad. D.C. United is the first acquisition of GSE.

  --Summer 2005
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5988372&postcount=1

quote:Serious talks are under way about transforming downtown's East Village into a mixed-use, destination point featuring residential, office and retail space with the possibility of a sports facility.

Mayor Bill LaFortune said ongoing discussions with a number of private groups have focused primarily on how to use this older area of downtown to create an entire multi-use project.

"The primary thrust of the redevelopment projects we're in discussion with will have the end result of the new urbanism concept for this city that we don't have now," he said.

  --November 2005
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=051118_Ne_A1_Citym117

quote:Tulsa is again one of several cities being considered for a Major League Soccer team, Mayor Bill LaFortune confirmed Thursday.

The Tulsa World has learned that a national sports agency that owns a franchise is interested in bringing a team to Tulsa.

  --November 2005
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=051120_Ne_A1_Propo32801

quote:
An unnamed group's proposal to include a medium-size soccer stadium in the latest plans for downtown Tulsa's East Village district, though, fits a trend for sports stadiums, especially those used primarily by Major League Soccer teams.

Nine of the 12 MLS franchises have new stadiums or are in some stage of planning or construction of stadiums built specifically for soccer. Eight of the nine are part of larger, multiuse developments like the one city planners envision for the East Village. Last week, the new owners of Washington's D.C. United announced plans to include a 27,000-seat stadium in a 100-acre housing, hotel and office development on 100 acres in Poplar Point, on the east side of the Anacostia River in one of the District's most blighted areas.

A group of investors led by real estate developers Tim Kissler and Willi Lauterbach bought D.C. United last summer for an estimated $26 million, apparently contingent on pulling together a stadium deal. The new owners formed two sister companies, one to manage the soccer club and the other to build the stadium and accompanying development.

to trouble in paradise...

  --January 2006
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/17/AR2006011701016.html

quote:Six months after announcing its operating rights had been sold for an MLS-record amount, D.C. United is going back on the market. Global Development Partners, a real estate firm founded by Northern Virginia executives Willi Lauterbach and Timothy Kissler, has withdrawn from an agreement that had been trumpeted as the most lucrative in league history, an estimated $26 million.

Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), which has operated United since 2001, will continue to run the club until a new buyer is found.

"It was a mutual decision," said team president Kevin Payne, far left, of the dissolved agreement to sell the team's operating rights to Willi Lauterbach, center, and Timothy Kissler of Global Development Partners.  "It was a mutual decision," United President Kevin Payne said yesterday. "There were concerns on both sides that this probably was not ultimately going to be the right fit for anybody."

  --May 2006
http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2006/05/15/daily64.html?jst=s_cn_hl

quote:Patrick McAteer, a Maryland resident who signed onto the group as a minority investor last spring, fired the first salvo.

He filed suit early this year in D.C. Superior Court alleging that Tim Kissler, Willi Lauterbach and Baker Al-Sadi -- managers of Global Development Partners -- cheated him out of nearly $2 million he thought would go toward buying the team and developing a mixed-use real estate complex, including a soccer stadium, in Anacostia.

------------------------------------------------

It's unclear exactly why the agreement between Global Development Partners and D.C. United owner Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG) fell through, although McAteer claims in his suit that Major League Soccer would not approve "ownership of a franchise by an entity involving" Lauterbach, Kissler and Al-Sadi.

D.C. United President Kevin Payne would not comment on that claim. A Major League Soccer spokesman did not return a call for comment.

encouraging news... another lawsuit... the bitter end...
  --Summer 2006
http://www.globaldevelopmentpartners.com/documents/060830TulsaPressRelease_000.pdf

  --January 2007
http://www.tulsabusinessjournal.com/article.asp?aID=44082

quote:The Nordam Group Inc. has sued Global Development Partners, operating as Tulsa Partners I LLC, claiming the Washington, D.C.-based development company failed to complete with terms of a purchase and sale agreement for a downtown property that would be part of the "East End" development.
The agreement, dated Jan. 16, 2006, and filed with the Tulsa County Clerk a month later, is for a large parcel of land in northeast downtown Tulsa that would be part of the planned development, which is expected to encompass more than 14 city blocks and to connect Tulsa's revitalizing downtown to the midtown district.

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/PrintFriendly?oid=oid%3A15952

quote:Instead of a bigger, better, hipper version of Cherry St. or Brookside situated around a baseball stadium as promised, downtown Tulsans could instead be looking forward to having just another Wal-Mart in their backyard.

[YoungTulsan]

Captain obvious does have a good point, Fortune 500 companies would be nice.  But what Tulsa city leaders should be lobbying for right now is for some of the business that we already have in Tulsa to consider relocating to downtown office space.  Perhaps sweeten the deal to entice companies to relocate headquarters.  Even a little bit of subsidizing wouldn't be a bad thing, if the ultimate goal of reaching critical mass of a dense lively downtown was thus achieved.  There are lots of mid-sized companies located throughout the region located in random cheap warehousey type locales.  With one or two story facilities in some area not particularly served well by the services that employees would enjoy for their prework, postwork, and lunchtime festivities (since none of these random areas have any sort of critical mass).  Some companies legit need to be in warehouse land with rail access, but all kinds of businesses dont.  Energy companies, restaraunt HQs, Call Centers, Staffing agencies, education, medical, etc etc.

The City Hall consolidation and getting all related entities in one area is a great idea, aside from the fact that they may have chosen the wrong building or method of finance.

Perhaps Im using the term Critical Mass too much, but that should be the name of the game for downtown development.  Encourage companies of the benefits of joining an area that has the potential to reach critical mass versus operating in an area that does not have it.  Much more lively work experience and eventually more close proximity downtown housing would follow the businesses.

[Johnboy976]

It's got to be Davaz. No one is that much of a hostile individual right off the first post, for the exception of a very special few.

Listen, Davaz says one or two good things in the worst way possible. And besides, Houston is a big city. It's as if you're comparing BA to Tulsa. Tulsa doesn't have the assets, yet, to accomplish all of Davaz's negative observations. We have to be original... not Houston. Fortune 500 companies won't come here until they have a reason to. You have to have something very tempting for them in your town before you can entice. That means updated technology, low costs, safe surroundings, plenty of other businesses to throw money around in, adequate housing... etc etc. We have a couple of these, but there are many areas where we lack. We have to focus on them and act on it.

[swake]

Queue Elton John.

The ***** is back.....

[cannon_fodder]

Big companies downtown... man, why didn't someone think of that?

I'll email Microsoft, GE, the automakers, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Exxon, Citigroup, Home Depot, IBM, Google, Intel, and Boeing about moving their corporate HQ downtown.  I think we have a shot if we all email a handful of companies and ask really nicely.  What do we think about having a Wal-Mart HQ downtown?  Maybe we should pass on that one.

Anyway, thanks Davaz for the idea.  Big companies = big buildings downtown.

Brilliant!