Lets Keep the Arkansas River In Perspective

[Tony]

I guess those who lost their lives were aware well in advance they would die in that event too.

For USACE it was an OH CRAP crowning moment !!!

[waterboy]

I don't think you'll win this one Tony. Too many people were around. Whichever flood was the one they mistakenly read upstream flows, I believe it was the '84 flood, was the flood that caught them by surprise. Even so there was time to warn the populace.

The other one was well publicized in advance and like Artist said was an event. Those who died were not washed away down the river unawares. They drove through high water, one tried to raft the river if I remember, stayed in mobile homes etc.

Now if the dam breaks.... very little notice. Goodbye downtown Tulsa!

[sgrizzle]

In tornado alley, anything with more than 5 minutes notice seem mild. There was a ton of time before the 84 flood and everyone had time to get out of the way. Not to mention Tulsa and surrounding communities have spent millions on floodwater mitigation as well as a much better understanding of keystone so the chances of past occurrences is very, very much lower.

Keep in mind the "private west bank levee" you mentioned failed because the owners had all but removed it.

[Vision 2025]

quote:Originally posted by Tony

I guess those who lost their lives were aware well in advance they would die in that event too.

For USACE it was an OH CRAP crowning moment !!!

That event from Keystone was in '86 and I do not believe there were any deaths related to it.  

I personally worked the aftermath documenting the flood height along all of the rivers in eastern Oklahoma.

[Tony]

I stand corrected -- the 1984 flood was death related -- I don't find that in the 86 descriptions, (when Keystome dam was threatened)

Still the bottom line is -- when you obstruct a flood plain with more dams the result is the river spreads further out - unless you remediate the volume by increasing river width, OR build higher levees -- something I don't believe is included in the budgeting.

And to all those who say it can't or won't or is unlikely to happen again -- let me sell you some Arkansas river bottom real estate.

Tulsa will remain in the MESO storm boundary line and unless Vision 2025 has found an innovative way around that, it remains an UNREPORTED fact.

[Vision 2025]

quote:Originally posted by Tony

I stand corrected -- the 1984 flood was death related -- I don't find that in the 86 descriptions, (when Keystome dam was threatened)

Still the bottom line is -- when you obstruct a flood plain with more dams the result is the river spreads further out - unless you remediate the volume by increasing river width, OR build higher levees -- something I don't believe is included in the budgeting.

And to all those who say it can't or won't or is unlikely to happen again -- let me sell you some Arkansas river bottom real estate.

Tulsa will remain in the MESO storm boundary line and unless Vision 2025 has found an innovative way around that, it remains an UNREPORTED fact.

Tony,

Give it a rest.  

Keystone dam was never "threatened" in 86 or this year either for that matter.  Oh and Zink Lake caused no flooding, even in the 1986 flood of record.

[Tony]

310,000CFS in 1986 tells me USACE was running scared of something -- I won't give it a rest till your GROUP quits its ASSUMPTIONS.

[Tiny]

it may not have been threatened but folks were very concerned then ... the dam itelf may have felt no such emotion but emotion was running fairly high when they reported the dam was shaking. now that must have been something to see and hear from atop something that big that seemed to the reporters to be actually moving. the dam itself was probably thinkin hey ... it's cool ya'll ... I got this covered but I membahs a lot of tulsans wasn't so comfortable with the situation.

[bacjz00]

"A lot of people arent going to go digging around, like us crazies on here, in newspapers and online to find out what this is about. "

Funny how doing a little research and actively becoming informed on a topic makes us "crazies" in today's age.  I actually don't disagree with that perception, but I think it's just a sad commentary that there are folks who are going to vote on this proposal without ever lifting a finger to research the facts.  I'm saddened.