TulsaNow river forum - post discussion

[Conan71]

How about the white elephant in the middle of downtown and the projects from which funding was taken to cover that.

Don't know that I've heard of any others over budget aside from the arena, but it has penalized or delayed the start of others.

[chesty]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle



Can you name 3 over budget projects? 2?

Well, the arena for one.  How about the low water dams we were promised would be constructed for a second one.  They're so far over budget on that one that they are asking us to raise our taxes again.  

The ballot I voted on said "Construct", not "Study" low water dams.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by chesty

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle



Can you name 3 over budget projects? 2?

Well, the arena for one.  How about the low water dams we were promised would be constructed for a second one.  They're so far over budget on that one that they are asking us to raise our taxes again.  

The ballot I voted on said "Construct", not "Study" low water dams.

Let's add the Route 66 (11th Street) Bridge renovation/rehabilitaion which will not occur at all now.

That makes three.

[chesty]

OK, there's three.

I thought about the route 66 project too, but since it's not going to happen it isn't technically over budget.

Now why exactly isn't it going to happen?

[Vision 2025]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by chesty

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle



Can you name 3 over budget projects? 2?

Well, the arena for one.  How about the low water dams we were promised would be constructed for a second one.  They're so far over budget on that one that they are asking us to raise our taxes again.  

The ballot I voted on said "Construct", not "Study" low water dams.

Let's add the Route 66 (11th Street) Bridge renovation/rehabilitaion which will not occur at all now.

That makes three.

The Avery bridge preservation work is happening NOW.  

The missing railing sections have been replaced, new lighting is being installed and the deck has been cleaned and sealed to retard further weather damage.

The new parking area is nearly complete and the pedestrian crossing (bridge) across SWB is under contract and will soon be under construction.  In addition, the bronze artwork is in fabrications and is expected to be installed on the east approach within the next year.

FYI - That Bridge is structurally incapable of again supporting traffic or even large numbers of people safely, the rendering that circulated around of it being used as a gathering place was proven infeasible in the structural evaluation.  Also I believe that structure is on the National Register, generating serious doubt of being able to put anything on it that was not there originally there, like pavilions.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by chesty

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle



Can you name 3 over budget projects? 2?

Well, the arena for one.  How about the low water dams we were promised would be constructed for a second one.  They're so far over budget on that one that they are asking us to raise our taxes again.  

The ballot I voted on said "Construct", not "Study" low water dams.

Let's add the Route 66 (11th Street) Bridge renovation/rehabilitaion which will not occur at all now.

That makes three.

I seem to remember seeing trucks and workers working on it right now.

Maybe I was just better educated than most going into the Vision2025 vote, but I never thought we were paying for the whole dam cost.

[Rico]

Originally posted by sgrizzle.

quote:I seem to remember seeing trucks and workers working on it right now.

Maybe I was just better educated than most going into the Vision2025 vote, but I never thought we were paying for the whole dam cost.

Sgrizzle I think what you saw them working on can be best described by this excerpt from Rwarn's blog page....

I was able to procure handout artist’s renderings of the Cyrus Avery Centennial Plaza planned near the Route 66 museum and interpretive center that’s going to be built at 11th Street and Southwest Boulevard in Tulsa. It’s all part of the Vision 2025 master plan for Route 66 in Tulsa County.

[Wrinkle]

quote: That Bridge is structurally incapable of again supporting traffic or even large numbers of people safely, the rendering that circulated around of it being used as a gathering place was proven infeasible in the structural evaluation.  

Don't you mean it costs too much?

I seriously doubt any claim which says it cannot be done.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote: That Bridge is structurally incapable of again supporting traffic or even large numbers of people safely, the rendering that circulated around of it being used as a gathering place was proven infeasible in the structural evaluation.  

Don't you mean it costs too much?

I seriously doubt any claim which says it cannot be done.

Zing! I wonder how many of these conceptual renderings for the river tax concepts will be proven infeasible if this tax passes? Closer examination of Vision 2025 should cause second thoughts about this river tax. Just look at the tax rebates for Seniors in Vision 2025, I wonder how many eligible Seniors are utilizing that rebate?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote: That Bridge is structurally incapable of again supporting traffic or even large numbers of people safely, the rendering that circulated around of it being used as a gathering place was proven infeasible in the structural evaluation.  

Don't you mean it costs too much?

I seriously doubt any claim which says it cannot be done.

Zing! I wonder how many of these conceptual renderings for the river tax concepts will be proven infeasible if this tax passes? Closer examination of Vision 2025 should cause second thoughts about this river tax. Just look at the tax rebates for Seniors in Vision 2025, I wonder how many eligible Seniors are utilizing that rebate?

If you read the Route 66 master plan (also been out there for years) they spent about a third of it discussing all of the options for the bridge. They were concerned about the river being able to hold vehicles again and decided against it and decided to go for aesthetic changes. I doubt it's gonna cave in anytime soon considering they are repaving it right now. Like, with big trucks.

[cks511]

quote:Originally posted by Vision 2025

The Avery bridge preservation work is happening NOW.  


[/quote]

What happened to the plans for the museum and restaurant plans for that hill?

[TheArtist]

I have always thought Tulsa could use a "Fall Fest". Something that would bring people downtown like Mayfest does. But perhaps an art festival that has booths and tents on the bridge would be nice. A "Route 66 Art Festival". It wouldnt neccessarily have to have art that just focused on Route 66, but I bet a lot of artists, musicians, etc would tend to bring out stuff that reflected Route 66.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

My perspective on the whole river issue:

Tulsa is slowly falling behind other cities across the nation because a large number of citizens are against any form of urban development.  I'm part of the young professional generation as well, and I am amazed at the lack of support with generally all major projects in Tulsa.  Tulsa is probably the most unknown city of its size in the U.S., and still thousands of local citizens are against anything that will move the city forward.  Sometimes, you have to spend money to make money.  That's just the way it is.  This isn't The Channels, this is an infrastructure project.  Infrastructure is supposed to be supported by governments and taxes.  Whether you live in the urban core, or the suburbs, you will always benefit from the marketability of the general region you reside in.  Believe it or not, job creation is actually related to the marketability of a geographic region.  A vibrant urban core attracts young professionals- about 80% of my peers want to live in a vibrant urban core.  Furthermore, Tulsa has a big problem with retaining the already-present young people in the city.  When the native Tulsan newly graduated college students pass up Tulsa, they take their tax money somewhere else.  By not voting for civic infrastructure projects, you are really just allowing more of the tax burden of the community to be placed on you, because you're not investing in ways to bring in new taxpayers or retain the ones already in the community.  The world is a far more competitive place today than ever before, and cities have to give themselves a competitive advantage against other cities in order to retain their brightest young people and attract outside job seekers.  Okla. City installed a man-made river.  All this vote is asking for is to sustain and further utilize a natural asset the area already has!

You make excellent points here, persp.

quote:I have always thought Tulsa could use a "Fall Fest". Something that would bring people downtown like Mayfest does. But perhaps an art festival that has booths and tents on the bridge would be nice. A "Route 66 Art Festival". It wouldnt neccessarily have to have art that just focused on Route 66, but I bet a lot of artists, musicians, etc would tend to bring out stuff that reflected Route 66.

I'm all in favor of a Fall Festival, and I like your idea of incorporating Route 66.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

My perspective on the whole river issue:

Tulsa is slowly falling behind other cities across the nation because a large number of citizens are against any form of urban development.  I'm part of the young professional generation as well, and I am amazed at the lack of support with generally all major projects in Tulsa.  Tulsa is probably the most unknown city of its size in the U.S., and still thousands of local citizens are against anything that will move the city forward.  Sometimes, you have to spend money to make money.  That's just the way it is.  This isn't The Channels, this is an infrastructure project.  Infrastructure is supposed to be supported by governments and taxes.  Whether you live in the urban core, or the suburbs, you will always benefit from the marketability of the general region you reside in.  Believe it or not, job creation is actually related to the marketability of a geographic region.  A vibrant urban core attracts young professionals- about 80% of my peers want to live in a vibrant urban core.  Furthermore, Tulsa has a big problem with retaining the already-present young people in the city.  When the native Tulsan newly graduated college students pass up Tulsa, they take their tax money somewhere else.  By not voting for civic infrastructure projects, you are really just allowing more of the tax burden of the community to be placed on you, because you're not investing in ways to bring in new taxpayers or retain the ones already in the community.  The world is a far more competitive place today than ever before, and cities have to give themselves a competitive advantage against other cities in order to retain their brightest young people and attract outside job seekers.  Okla. City installed a man-made river.  All this vote is asking for is to sustain and further utilize a natural asset the area already has!

You make excellent points here, persp.

quote:I have always thought Tulsa could use a "Fall Fest". Something that would bring people downtown like Mayfest does. But perhaps an art festival that has booths and tents on the bridge would be nice. A "Route 66 Art Festival". It wouldnt neccessarily have to have art that just focused on Route 66, but I bet a lot of artists, musicians, etc would tend to bring out stuff that reflected Route 66.

I'm all in favor of a Fall Festival, and I like your idea of incorporating Route 66.

We have a great fall festival, Oktoborfest.  It's on the river too. I swear, you chamber youths, always bellyachin' theres nothing to do in Tulsa or on the river. What's the matter, a beer festival beneath you?

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by Double A:
We have a great fall festival, Oktoborfest.  It's on the river too. I swear, you chamber youths, always bellyachin' theres nothing to do in Tulsa or on the river. What's the matter, a beer festival beneath you?

I'm well aware of Oktoberfest, but that's not the Arts festival I think artist was envisioning.  He even said like Mayfest but in the fall.  Does it hurt to have more than ONE festival during one season?  Really?

No, Oktoberfest isn't beneath me, and I've NEVER said that there's nothing to do in Tulsa--quite the opposite.  And I'm not associated with the Chamber, either.  

So, is reading something and NOT spinning it to fit your cynical, conspiratorial mindset beneath you?