Getting people to move to Tulsa

[TheArtist]

I remember doing some reading online during the "Channels" debate, and actually I remember hearing about it for years before that, about how demographics were shifting. There were a lot of different articles that made comments like.  



The baby boomers will start retiring and young workers will be in demand.

Cities will start competing to attract the "Creative Class" "YP's" and skilled labor force in general.

A more skilled workforce is going to be needed to stay competitive internationally.

The labor pool will more and more be able to pretty much choose where they want to live and businesses will follow them and grow there. Some can even take their jobs with them, wherever there is an internet connection, thats where they can work.




On the one hand I keep hearing people say that we need to create more jobs to get people here. But on the other hand I keep hearing stories about so many companies that do have good paying jobs yet are having a hard time getting people to move here.

One group says we need more jobs to become competitive and more people will come. Tulsa isnt growing because it doesnt have enough good jobs.

Another group is saying, I have good jobs but cant get the people here We arent growing as much because we arent an attractive enough city that competitively offers the lifestyle many young people want.  

If plenty of jobs are available in many cities. And a young person can choose where they want to live based on a cities qualities other than just a job. It seems to me that cities will have to compete using the "lifestyle" angle.

Though we offer such things as "more house for the money" than some other areas. Well you can say that about a lot of places where people are choosing not to live. It may seem crazy that people will pay 2,3,4 times as much to live in one area and have a horrid commute to boot, but they do in order to be near the things they like. Whether the reality is that over all they dont have a better lifestyle as we see it. Thats the way it is. As someone once said. "Perception is Reality"

How is Tulsa perceived in comparison to other cities that are competing for young workers?

As more and more baby boomers leave the work force. What can we do to lure young people away from other cities? And remember the baby boomers arent just retiring here they will be retiring in other cities as well so those cities, and companies in those cities, will be after our young people trying to get them to move away. Do we... Lower city sales taxes? Have better roads? Do the river?


http://www.kotv.com/news/topstory/?id=136299
(   Construction Workers Wanted
KOTV - 9/19/2007 8:26 PM - Updated 9/19/2007 10:33 PM
Construction workers are in high demand in Green Country. The area is seeing a building boom, but local construction companies say workers are in short supply. Some companies are actually having to turn away business. The News On 6's Ashli Sims reports local construction companies say there's plenty of work to do, but not enough workers to do it.

Commercials are hitting the airwaves across four states, because Crossland Construction is at a crossroads.

"The industry as a whole is facing a shortfall of worker all across the country," said Dennis Burns, Crossland Construction business development director.

Burns is the business development director for Crossland and the star of the company's new commercials. He says they've never advertised on television until now.

"There's a large number of baby boomers leaving the industry and then there's not enough people new coming into the industry to replace them, so this is a problem," Burns said.

Flintco saw projects jump 27% last year. But the lack of workers is causing a construction crunch.

"We've had a challenge in meeting those needs, and we've actually had, which is really hard in the construction world to say no to projects, but we've had to say no to new clients because we're going to continually work with clients we have existing," Flinto division president Dave Kollmann said.

It's a problem that's actually a good sign for Green Country's economy. Building is booming from the rising BOK Center to local hospitals and schools.

The labor shortfall has companies like Crossland Construction using different tactics to go after a different kind of worker.

"We're going after a different market, we want those people who perhaps already have jobs, and may not be looking for work," said Burns. "If they see Crossland enough and want to come on board, we're ready."

Some say Oklahoma's recent immigration legislation, House Bill 1804, isn't helping the problem. It's not affecting commercial construction companies directly, but it's hammering their subcontractors. And some say if that continues it will drive up the price of doing business.

If you're interested in applying at Crossland Construction call 918-712-1441 or visit their website, www.crosslandconstruction.com.

Watch the video: Companies Hanging The Help Wanted Sign

 

[rwarn17588]

Personally, I think Tulsa needs to harp on the low cost of living and housing in a metro area, without the massive traffic hassles, but many of the amenities.

At the end of the day, you have more money for fun stuff. That's what impresses people when I tell them about Tulsa.

[perspicuity85]

I'm part of the "young professional" target market, and I love Tulsa, but only because I look for what it has to offer.  I grew up in the South Tulsa suburban scene, where most of my high school classmates went to Downtown or Midtown very rarely.  Luckily for me and Tulsa, my two best friends grew up in Midtown.  There's nothing wrong with South Tulsa, or the other suburbs, except for the fact that they are exactly like other suburbs in over a hundred other US cities.  Midtown and Downtown are what makes Tulsa unique, and are the type of places that 80-90% of my young professional peers are looking to reside.  Unfortunately, most of these y.p.'s are largely unaware of the true culture that resides in Midtown and Downtown.  The extent to which the young professionals are actually marketed to in Tulsa is minimal at best.  Civic planners in Tulsa are so myopic when it comes to solving the problem of keeping highly educated workers in the city.  

Tulsa's suburbs are graduating more college-bound high school students than anywhere else in the metro area.  When these students go to college, they carry little if any awareness of Tulsa's urban culture.  When these students graduate from college, they are typically looking for jobs in someplace other than Tulsa, someplace with a perceived vibrant urban culture.

Tulsa can build itself up with river development and urban lofts all it wants.  No matter how great the product is, people have to perceive it as being great before they will buy.  The phrase "great products sell themselves" is 100% outdated.  The world is much more competitive today.  Without proper marketing efforts, including promotion, Tulsa will never reach its full potential in attracting young professionals.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

I'm part of the "young professional" target market, and I love Tulsa, but only because I look for what it has to offer.  I grew up in the South Tulsa suburban scene, where most of my high school classmates went to Downtown or Midtown very rarely.  Luckily for me and Tulsa, my two best friends grew up in Midtown.  There's nothing wrong with South Tulsa, or the other suburbs, except for the fact that they are exactly like other suburbs in over a hundred other US cities.  Midtown and Downtown are what makes Tulsa unique, and are the type of places that 80-90% of my young professional peers are looking to reside.  Unfortunately, most of these y.p.'s are largely unaware of the true culture that resides in Midtown and Downtown.  The extent to which the young professionals are actually marketed to in Tulsa is minimal at best.  Civic planners in Tulsa are so myopic when it comes to solving the problem of keeping highly educated workers in the city.  

Tulsa's suburbs are graduating more college-bound high school students than anywhere else in the metro area.  When these students go to college, they carry little if any awareness of Tulsa's urban culture.  When these students graduate from college, they are typically looking for jobs in someplace other than Tulsa, someplace with a perceived vibrant urban culture.

Tulsa can build itself up with river development and urban lofts all it wants.  No matter how great the product is, people have to perceive it as being great before they will buy.  The phrase "great products sell themselves" is 100% outdated.  The world is much more competitive today.  Without proper marketing efforts, including promotion, Tulsa will never reach its full potential in attracting young professionals.

That's pretty well said. I'm a believer that the more things change, the more they stay the same. I recognize some of your feelings from when I traversed that age. Everything seems too slow, too dated. That song where the guy laments, "We're waiting for the world to change" is classic.

When ever the pendulum swings one way too far, the other side looks attractive. Our emphasis the last 30yrs on safe, clean, good investment suburbs with a strong spiritual presence, has created a class of young people who have no real knowledge of urban Tulsa and its different lifestyle. So for those residing in the "innovator" or "early adopter" mindsets the midtown/downtown experience is attractive. I hope we can make use of that momentum before the pendulum swings again.

Tulsa needs jobs that are disbursed over a wider range of demographics than is now available. Not something you just pull off the shelf though. We've always been oil because we invested in that commodity as a community. It built the city. Now, we have large numbers of $7-$10 jobs and large numbers of Masters level jobs and not much in between. It makes for a city dominated by a professional class of people being served by worker bees with two totally different sets of values and needs. No wonder we rarely find consensus.

We are at the mercy of economics. Oil prices are solidifying that disparity right now. The higher they go, the harder it is on the lower end and the easier it is on the upper end. Those in the middle quietly suffer as their numbers diminish and their last refuge of security, the equity in their homes, erodes. No river project, reduction in taxes, road rebuilding or centennial celebration will have much effect on this.

In the end, the young worker goes where he is paid well, catered to, and sees entertainment value. Tulsa should use that to market to them. In my youth that was Colorado, California, Atlanta, Houston, Minneapolis and New York. Where is it now?

[cannon_fodder]

I too fall into the young professionals.  I'm in Tulsa because its a good place to raise a family.  If I was single, I probably would not be here.

While there is plenty to do if you look, you actually have to look (I'm not a bore, just sayin').  Tulsa is not a young happening place.  Tulsa has legacy industries that employ an older work force, we have either really fallen behind in the YP market or the YP's that are here allow the perception to be such.   And its really a snowball.  If your city seems young and vibrant, it attracts more industry seeking young vibrant workers and more workers seeking a young vibrant place to live.

In Tulsa, the most notable places are old.  The streets and bridges look old.  Most good jobs are seeking people with 5+ years of experience in their field - good jobs but just out of reach for many YPs.  Most of the amenities of Tulsa do not appeal to YP - Utica Square is geared for the older crowd, world class museums nor ballets nor opera's do not help, classical architecture, quite living... these are not things that appeal to most young professionals.  

High paying jobs and affordable housing help.  New arena's and pretty parks help.  Notable bar districts and big festivals help.  Entertainment options like college football, arena football, concerts and others help.

I don't know exactly how to define it, but Tulsa is a spark.  I guess its missing one area that screams "this city has life."  Certainly that isnt downtown, and South Tulsa has about as much life as any other place people go to escape city life.  Hell, I don't know.  Its just missing SOMETHING.

As it stands Tulsa is a nice town for people who want to settle down, buy a home, start a family and stay out of trouble.  The problem is, many young people hit this phase while living in other cities.  It's there that they will probably stay, start their own business, and grow their families.  

Just my 2 cents, and I know its a bit ambiguous.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Personally, I think Tulsa needs to harp on the low cost of living and housing in a metro area, without the massive traffic hassles, but many of the amenities.

At the end of the day, you have more money for fun stuff. That's what impresses people when I tell them about Tulsa.

Are these people you are talking to "adults" and people with families, or young single people? Many of the young single people I know, well I have tried convincing them that buying a house is a good idea, but they say they dont want to be locked in or held down with something like that right now. No matter how good a deal it may be. Highrise or midrise Condo, yes, house no. That also seems to be something Tulsa lacks. Many cities have areas with neighborhoods of flashy new condo towers or new mid-rise neighborhoods. But I suppose you have to have the demographic of young people that want that type of lifestyle as well. Kind of a chicken and egg thing there. However I do believe there is a demand for that type of thing here. If we could just get it started somewhere. Often those places start around areas like Brookside and Cherry Street, but can you imagine the holler we would hear if you started tearing out those homes right around Brookside and putting in mid rise condos? Cherry Street seems to be a more likely place for something like that to take off at the moment. But neither of those areas really has the critical mass or obvious "look" just yet.

One thing that is interesting to note on the "Perceptions" front. I have noticed that some of my friends who have moved to places like Dallas or Denver or Austin, dont actually end up right in the core, they often cant afford it, but they move to areas, even small towns around those cities. But its the lifestyle and perception of that lifestyle that draws them there. Of course there are lots of young people to hang around with in those central areas as well. May say they are moving to Dallas, but end up living in Addison. To them its still the same thing, they can get the same busy, bustling lifestyle and be around lots of young people like themselves. And often those places have nice trendy complexes to live in.    

I actually think that the River District (if it really goes through as planned) and the new Riverwalk in Jenks has the possiblility of offering that, clean, new bustling lifestyle just outside the core. You can hop on riverside and be in Downtown Tulsa or Brookside and Cherry Street in no time.

Lots of interesting comments though.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

Tulsa can build itself up with river development and urban lofts all it wants.  No matter how great the product is, people have to perceive it as being great before they will buy.  The phrase "great products sell themselves" is 100% outdated.  The world is much more competitive today.  Without proper marketing efforts, including promotion, Tulsa will never reach its full potential in attracting young professionals.

And "Comfortably Cosmopolitan" doesn't do that for you?

[tulsa1603]

Tulsa's image problem is that it's too anonymous, too boring, and too small.  I travel constantly, and when I meet people from other cities, they immediately have this attitude of "How can you live THERE?"  and most haven't even been here.  The few I've convinced to visit me here have actually come away impressed, even if not entirely CONVINCED that it's a great place to live.  I don't think jobs are the main problem, it's a problem of image.

The hip part of town that young people look for exists here, but there isn't enough of it.  And it's often surrounded by blighted and abandoned areas - depressing.  Go to Austin, for instance, and nothing is blighted for long there, at least not in the immediate vicinity of downtown.  Real estate is snapped up quickly, everything is in demand.  I think it's a snowball of energy.  We have got to get people excited and thinking that there is something to be excited about, even if it is all puffery.

YPs in my experience don't give a damn about low commute times or low housing costs.  Twentysomethings are not always known for being practical.  Those things may be somewhat of a factor, but YPs really want to live somewhere exciting, and unfortunately, Tulsa's national image is equal to that of Des Moines or Omaha - dull.  I'm not sure the river is going to be the cure, either.  My seat of the pants evaluation is that Austin seems exciting because there are cranes in the air all over the place, there are young people making tons of money at 25 years old (other 25 year olds think it will rub off on them), and it has a hip image that has been developed over the last 40 years due to it's somewhat counterculture roots and having a large university near downtown.  We have quite a struggle ahead since our image (or lack of one) is probably something that needs to be overcome, and that won't be easy.

[Conan71]

There have been a lot of improvements in Tulsa just in the last 20 to 25 years alone.  

At the turn of the last century, Tulsa went from an Indian outpost to bustling small city in a short amount of time with the oil boom.  A natural resource brought jobs and people to Tulsa back then.  In the scheme of things, Tulsa is still a very young city.  We had our identity as the "Oil Capital" stripped from us.  We need to find a new identity which will catch people's attention.

The cityscape helps, but people won't move here just because we have some hip districts like Blue Dome, Brookside, Cherry Street, Brady, the river, et. al. unless they have a way to make a good income.

It's almost a chicken/egg issue.  Low cost of living, fast commute times, very liveable central and suburban areas, a government eager to provide incentives to companies who bring new jobs.

We had a growth in YP-type jobs with the build-up of telecom, then that cratered.  Many of our oil jobs moved to Houston to be near all the other oil companies.  We have to get our Metro Chamber out of the mind-set that call center and service/retail/entertainment jobs are all we are worthy of.

What we need to think of is what resources does our city have to offer to companies to bring high-paying jobs?

We have gotten a great investment in higher ed through V-2025.  I had a great conversation with Gary Trennepohl the other night prior to the TN forum at OSU-Tulsa.  There are even more great things coming in the way of higher ed.  I've thought for a long time not having a four year state school in Tulsa for long has hurt our rentention of quality job candidates, which is a resource that companies will seek out.

So what's the answer?  

-Keep supporting and developing public higher ed.  

-Fix infrastructure problems that make Tulsa look like a second-tier city

-If necessary, overhaul the MTCC and put people in who will agressively seek out better quality jobs

-Elect better legislators to send to OKC to see to it that Tulsa gets it's fair share of the state budget to really make Tulsa shine

-Keep thinking along the lines of general civic improvements like tributary and river development (IMO- tributary development is much more hip)

-Promote the liveability of the region, not just the city.  We have vast natural resources within a 70-mile or so radius which provide great recreation (i.e. lakes, rivers, museums, destinations)

Okay, just my little manifesto.  I hope there's something in there which makes sense.

[YoungTulsan]

I liked the idea of a 4 year college downtown.

[Tony]

Why the rush for a hometown makeover? Tulsa is a great community and still quite vibrant -- a town is what you make of it -- I have moved 5 times for my profession, starting in Ft Worth, Texas, to Atlanta, to Knoxville, back to Ft Worth and now to Oklahoma. Tulsa has a lot going for it and except for Knoxville[] is the best of all those cities, in cost of living, affordable housing and wide open spaces to relax in -- you can get just about anywhere from the burbs to downtown in 20 minutes even during rush hour -- the appeal of T TOWN IS the laid back lifestyle for executive level professionals -- for young couples and pros coming up Tulsa will almost always be a stop in the road as careers expand, but you can bet a lot of those people will remember Tulsa as a great place to live. Throwing large sums of money at a perceived problem usually does not get the crux of the matter -- for Tulsa metro to expand the corporate tax base will need to be lowered to make professional business willing to relocate -- face it OKLAHOMA is regressive in its corporate tax system, to the point it drives business elsewhere. It isn't a Tulsa problem but a statewide problem -- you only need look south of the Red River to see that. Oklahoma as a whole is just not an industry friendly state -- the workers comp laws scare many firms that would be willing to relocate. I could list ten business reasons that would bring business to Tulsa -- Education of the work force would be right at the top.

I digress but Tulsa is already a great place to live.

[OurTulsa]

It would be nice to have a vibrant intact urban fabric.  Many of my friends have moved to cities that provided them with a significant amount of public stimulation found within a well established urban and accessible fabric.  

Cities they moved to include Chicago, Seattle, Boston, Portland.  Some have moved with the security of having good employment others decided that job or no good job they wanted to be somewhere where they knew they didn't have to go far or look hard to find thier people or an exciting display of culture.

When we have friends come visit from urban cities they get bored with Tulsa fast.  They only want to sit in a house or car for so long and they're not interested in a mall and while impressed with the River, Philbrook/Gilcrease and architecture they end up more underwhelmed with the lack of an urban culture.  One calls our downtown the perfect movie set, we were walking about on a Saturday afternoon looking at the architecture down the middle of the streets and he couldn't quit saying stuff like he felt like he was in a cemetary for buildings, or in a movie set...  They always ask me, "Where is everyone?"  We walk to Brookside for drinks on a Sat. night and while the bar is alright after a few ok blocks of Peoria that's it.  And the walk is not exactly pleasant when competing with vehicles in the street at night (lack of sidewalks in the neighborhoods and proximity of most of the sidewalk on Peoria above and below the core of Brookside).

Many ask where to find our Michigan Av.(Chicago), Newbury St.(Boston), 23rd St.(Portland)?  Or they ask where they can go hang out and get a real good view and feel of Tulsa culture.  Again, when they find out it's the mall, Utica Sq. (which most like but after an hour and a block it's an identical scene), a few broken blocks in Brookside, Cherry St. or Blue Dome they get a little underwhelmed.  

They ALL think Tulsa's pretty but leave not the least bit interested in moving here.  I try to argue 'great place to raise a family, good schools, quality of life' but they've got that where they came from.  The only thing I have on them is my housing cost but they always throw back at me that I get what I pay for, a nice house but what else...they say paying the premium for a great neighborhood, or easy walking distance to train station or in a great city is worth it.

For God's sake, my own mother isn't interested in moving here even though she pays a little more than me a month for her teeny tiny apartment.  'I love you and my grandchildren very very very much and I wish my mortgage was lower but OurTulsa I can't leave this place.  I live in a great neighborhood, I have my stores right here, these people look after me (her neighbors - many of whom she met on the neighborhood streets, in the park, in the coffee shop at the end of her block), we (she and her old fart cackeling friends) play Bocci at the park down the street, I don't have to drive when I don't want to and I can go to New York real quick if I need the big city life (She lives in Philadelphia).  I like Philly and all but for God's sake Philly!?! over me and my children.  Btw, she's 52 and lives alone but tells me often that her neighborhood has become her family (none of my brothers live there either).  

All the rambling to suggest that it would be nice to have an intact public realm in which Tulsa could easily display it's differing personalities.  Boston Av. would be my candidate as Tulsa's great public street.  Downtown between 3rd and Boston Av. United Methodist Church could cater to main stream Tulsa culture with theaters, known restaurants, starbucks, a good bookstore...while Boston Av. below the IDL could accommodate the funkier side of our City.  In both cases, the critical mass of commerce and residences around public streets create the kind of magnet that can attract a little bit of all of Tulsa's people and can provide the services and amenities such that it could be active during many hours of teh day and night.  Imagine the visual stimuli beyond all the people with the Bok Tower and Boston Av. church providing impressive bookend visual termini and the architecture in between.  Parks, theaters, restaurants, residential towers off to the east and west of the spine.  
This City could be great!

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

Tulsa's image problem is that it's too anonymous, too boring, and too small.  I travel constantly, and when I meet people from other cities, they immediately have this attitude of "How can you live THERE?"  and most haven't even been here.  The few I've convinced to visit me here have actually come away impressed, even if not entirely CONVINCED that it's a great place to live.  I don't think jobs are the main problem, it's a problem of image.

+1.  Well said.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa

It would be nice to have a vibrant intact urban fabric.  Many of my friends have moved to cities that provided them with a significant amount of public stimulation found within a well established urban and accessible fabric.  

Cities they moved to include Chicago, Seattle, Boston, Portland.  Some have moved with the security of having good employment others decided that job or no good job they wanted to be somewhere where they knew they didn't have to go far or look hard to find thier people or an exciting display of culture.

When we have friends come visit from urban cities they get bored with Tulsa fast.  They only want to sit in a house or car for so long and they're not interested in a mall and while impressed with the River, Philbrook/Gilcrease and architecture they end up more underwhelmed with the lack of an urban culture.  One calls our downtown the perfect movie set, we were walking about on a Saturday afternoon looking at the architecture down the middle of the streets and he couldn't quit saying stuff like he felt like he was in a cemetary for buildings, or in a movie set...  They always ask me, "Where is everyone?"  We walk to Brookside for drinks on a Sat. night and while the bar is alright after a few ok blocks of Peoria that's it.  And the walk is not exactly pleasant when competing with vehicles in the street at night (lack of sidewalks in the neighborhoods and proximity of most of the sidewalk on Peoria above and below the core of Brookside).

Many ask where to find our Michigan Av.(Chicago), Newbury St.(Boston), 23rd St.(Portland)?  Or they ask where they can go hang out and get a real good view and feel of Tulsa culture.  Again, when they find out it's the mall, Utica Sq. (which most like but after an hour and a block it's an identical scene), a few broken blocks in Brookside, Cherry St. or Blue Dome they get a little underwhelmed.  

They ALL think Tulsa's pretty but leave not the least bit interested in moving here.  I try to argue 'great place to raise a family, good schools, quality of life' but they've got that where they came from.  The only thing I have on them is my housing cost but they always throw back at me that I get what I pay for, a nice house but what else...they say paying the premium for a great neighborhood, or easy walking distance to train station or in a great city is worth it.

For God's sake, my own mother isn't interested in moving here even though she pays a little more than me a month for her teeny tiny apartment.  'I love you and my grandchildren very very very much and I wish my mortgage was lower but OurTulsa I can't leave this place.  I live in a great neighborhood, I have my stores right here, these people look after me (her neighbors - many of whom she met on the neighborhood streets, in the park, in the coffee shop at the end of her block), we (she and her old fart cackeling friends) play Bocci at the park down the street, I don't have to drive when I don't want to and I can go to New York real quick if I need the big city life (She lives in Philadelphia).  I like Philly and all but for God's sake Philly!?! over me and my children.  Btw, she's 52 and lives alone but tells me often that her neighborhood has become her family (none of my brothers live there either).  

All the rambling to suggest that it would be nice to have an intact public realm in which Tulsa could easily display it's differing personalities.  Boston Av. would be my candidate as Tulsa's great public street.  Downtown between 3rd and Boston Av. United Methodist Church could cater to main stream Tulsa culture with theaters, known restaurants, starbucks, a good bookstore...while Boston Av. below the IDL could accommodate the funkier side of our City.  In both cases, the critical mass of commerce and residences around public streets create the kind of magnet that can attract a little bit of all of Tulsa's people and can provide the services and amenities such that it could be active during many hours of teh day and night.  Imagine the visual stimuli beyond all the people with the Bok Tower and Boston Av. church providing impressive bookend visual termini and the architecture in between.  Parks, theaters, restaurants, residential towers off to the east and west of the spine.  
This City could be great!

Well said.  And I totally agree with your thoughts re:  Boston Ave.  Unfortunately, the city is in the middle of one of the biggest, most-boneheaded missed opportunities that will not be fixable for many many years.  The current re-build of Boston Avenue, insisting on maintaining four lanes of traffic, two parking lanes and narrow sidewalks, killing essentially forever any chance of sidewalk cafes  or any other urban life on that street.

[waterboy]

Some good ideas and insights in these comments. Can someown with a clear head and more time summarize and bullet point those ideas? Then mail them to the Mayor, Council, Chamber and the County? They never seem to look outside their own little spheres of influence.