Why are Church Leaders silent on the River Tax?

[TheArtist]

Your perfectly able to move some place where the taxes are lower and life is better.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Your perfectly able to move some place where the taxes are lower and life is better.

I'm needed here.  The Oppressed and Exploited citizens of the Banana Republic of Tulsa need help.  

My heart, guts and grit are hereby applied to thwarting the harmful domination of the ruling Oligarch Familias.

I think Tulsa can actually be recovered from its long-term, nose-dive to financial ruin accompanied by ruinous taxation lining the pocket of the controlling Oligarch Families and their connected cronies.

Just follow the dots................

First, we have to drive a wooden stake through the hearts of the Tax Vampires.

Second, take back our local Goobermint with a true reformer, not a False Reformer like former Mayor Major MisFortune, or Non-Reformer Chatty Kathy Taylor.

Third, kill all the lawyers.

Fourth, never mind about Third.  That was William Shakepeare's idea.  Wouldn't work here; too many lawyers, not enough rope.

We had a brief few months of transparency in our local City Government when the Gang of 4.5 was elected to the City Council:

Turner, Henderson, Mautino, Medlock and Sam "Benedict Arnold" Roop.  

A short period of daylight and transparency ensued, but which Republican Mayor Bill MisFortune stridently resisted all REFORM actions of the Gang of 4.5, on behalf of his Masters.  

The Gang was outing all kinds of Favors-Trading, insider sweetheart dealing, like:

$200K "lobbying" contracts with Margeret Erling-Frette.

$360K "Lobbying" contracts with Friends of Bill MisFortune.

Sweetheart 40-year water contracts with Bixby and Owasso.

Great Plains Airlines fiasco and investigation.

And on and on and on.

With a slim majority arrayed against the long-entrenched privileged elite power structure, the local elite power establishment used sniper rifle accuracy to pick off the weak link in the Gang of 4.5, an out of work WilTel employee who needed a job, and was seduced to change sides by Mayor MisFortune.  

A $90K City job was invented for Mr. Roop, and in the subsequent special election to fill his open city councilor position, all the stops were pulled out to finance a slime-o campaign to elect one of their own, Bill Martinet, with the help of political consultant and mercenary-for-hire Jim Burdge.

Sam the Sham is gone now, along with Mayor MisFortune swept into the dustbin of Tulsa Political History, another popular politician whose Moral Authority was quickly eroded by serial lies uttered on behalf of the benefit of the local Ruling Oligarchy.

But, there will be another day.

Maybe the mysterious Hand of God will finally help the oppressed and exploited citizens of the:

Banana Republic of Tulsa.

This Topic being a Summons for Church Leaders to Opine on the Moral Impact of the Kaiser River Tax,

Let us Pray.  

Dear Lord, give us strength to resist the Oppressors and Exploiters of our fellow Tulsans. Give us Strength to face the Truth.

In your name we pray, Oh Lord, Amen.



[:O]

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear
I'm needed here.  The Oppressed and Exploited citizens of the Banana Republic of Tulsa need help.  

I feel neither oppressed nor exploited. You're assistance is no longer needed here. [:X]

[Breadburner]

Why did you leave out Kenneth Hagin.......[]

[waterboy]

Bye, bye miss American Pie...
Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry...
Them good 'ol boys was drinkin whiskey and rye...
Singin' this will be the day that I die....

Sounds like your song Bear. Full of hidden messages, symbolic references with mostly entertainment value.[8D]

Perversely, i enjoy a man with a mission and passion to execute it, even if I disagree with them.

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

What a stupid topic!

You expect advice from the pulpit on commercial development or tax issues?

What was the stance of your church on funding EMSA or a south Tulsa toll bridge? Does you God speak about sales tax holidays or TIF districts?

Oh, and the leaders of my church do not have "moral authority" over me. I look to them for positive examples and interpretation of moral values, not authority over me.

Well, if it's so stupid, why'd you bother to reply?  Duh.

And, there's that ANGER again RecycleM.  

E-A-S-Y.

Church leaders certainly do speak with Moral Authority over their congregations, and most likely speaking in general on religion and the meaning of morality which is integral to all major religions.  

Teaching how to leading a morale (pious)life is in their job description.

Ministers are ordained into their religion, after years of study, and after passing various tests to do so.

And, then they are selected by their Congregation as their Religious Leader.

They certainly can and should opine on the moral implications of a new regressive sales tax that will literally reduce the disposable income of Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens.

They certainly do not have to be an expert on TIF's or the INCOG River Master Plan to so opine.

They are experts on the teaching of Morality......

Or are they?

And what they do say, or do NOT say when an IMMORAL taking of the means of sustenance from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens speaks volumes about hypocrisy.

There could well be a sermon on it this weekend.

Still listening...........

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

Waiting...................

[]

So we're screwed either way. If we respond then it validates you and your asinine assertions. If we don't then your statements pass as unassailable fact which they never are. I think your just lonely and crave the attention with such weak arguments as churches responding to tax issues. Wait a minute...didn't Jesus throw the tax collectors out? YOU want them back in arguing for equal time.

Actually, I'm waiting for Richard Roberts, Billy Joe Daugherty, Dr. Mouzon Biggs, Deron Spoo, or any of the host of prominent and respected local religious leaders to SPEAK OUT as to how taking more sales tax money from the pockets of struggling poor people CAN be a moral act.
 
Waiting.............
Waiting..........
Waiting.......

FYI, Jesus threw the MONEY CHANGERS from the Temple, not the Roman Tax Collectors.  Changing common Roman coins for less common Jewish coins, for offerings IN the Temple, was their religious practice.  For a fee.  

Maybe Mr. Kaiser's family got their banking start there outside the Temple?

Saul was the Tax Collector for the Romans (River Tax Collector?), who had the religious epiphany on the Road to Damascus, and became Paul.

Thus Saith the Friendly Bear.

Could be your waiting for Godot!!!!

[Steve]

Church pastors/leaders have absolutely no business commenting on political matters or taxation issues.  Church leaders should be silent on all political matters, the recent river tax vote included.  Church pastors should concern themselves with matters of religious faith, and leave secular issues such as tax votes to the general populace.  If not, then churches should forfeit their tax-exempt status if they are going to get involved in political/tax issues.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

Church pastors/leaders have absolutely no business commenting on political matters or taxation issues.  Church leaders should be silent on all political matters, the recent river tax vote included.  Church pastors should concern themselves with matters of religious faith, and leave secular issues such as tax votes to the general populace.  If not, then churches should forfeit their tax-exempt status if they are going to get involved in political/tax issues.

Well, there's Political Campaigns which the IRS forbids endorsement by Churches of candidates, and then there are NON-PARTISAN elections such as ballot issues to change the State Constitution, or NON-PARTISAN ballot issues like the Kaiser River Tax, which are not governed by IRS guidelines.  How HANDY!

Non-Partisan ballot issues are treated totally differently than candidate elections in that there are NO LIMITS on what a contributor can provide to advocate their position.  

NO LIMITS.

For instance, in all likelihood, the Vote YES Tax Vampires will spend and raise over $1,000,000 to promote the Kaiser River Tax.

They are spendings big dollars on direct mail, TV and radio spots, polling, and phone solicitors.  

The Grass Roots NO RIVER TAX Dis-organization has a few No River Tax Signs.

Hardly a FAIR COMPETITION.

But, our ruling power Oligarchy in the Banana Republic of Tulsa Likes:  

They like things just the way they are...........

A $1M investment to yield $100,000,000's to the favored local heavy Construction Companies, their Connected Cronies, certain favored attorneys and accountants, and a select group of bond underwriters, another $282 million in taxes.

Certainly, a local pastor, priest, rabbi, or holy man should opine on the Morality of taking additional disposable income from Tulsa County's poorest and neediest citizens to move sand around in a prairie river.

It's definitely a MORAL issue.

Our holy men could legally sermonize tomorrow.

We'll see if they take a moral stand between now and Oct. 9th, or else melt under the heat of the moneyed ruling Oligarchy power play, showing their certified feet of clay.

Their here-to-for feckless moral infirmity makes one want to become a Heathen.

[:O]

[RecycleMichael]

Let us know what your pastor/rabbi/minister says tomorrow.

Do they preach politics before the snake handling or after?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Let us know what your pastor/rabbi/minister says tomorrow.

Do they preach politics before the snake handling or after?

It depends on the temperature that the cold-blooded reptile has been refrigerated at.

Swake for instance needs a 40 degree ambient temperature to handle.

Recycle on the other hand is dangerous at any temperature, liable to strike violently with venomously poisoned fangs at the slightes provocation.

C-A-R-E-F-U-L.

Such ANGER in one of God's Creatures.

Practice Love.  

Practice Peace.  

Practice Love of Your Fellow Man.

Vote NO October 9, For the Children!  
[B)]

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear
The Grass Roots NO RIVER TAX Dis-organization has a few No River Tax Signs.

Too bad that they are all in the public right-of-way. LOL [}:)]

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by TURobY

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear
The Grass Roots NO RIVER TAX Dis-organization has a few No River Tax Signs.

Too bad that they are all in the public right-of-way. LOL [}:)]

Well, the Vote No Supporters ARE THE PUBLIC.

[]

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Let us know what your pastor/rabbi/minister says tomorrow.

Do they preach politics before the snake handling or after?

Plus, what will you do if they say something you do not like?  What if they believe in the river vote?  What if your on the wrong side morally?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by joiei

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Let us know what your pastor/rabbi/minister says tomorrow.

Do they preach politics before the snake handling or after?

Plus, what will you do if they say something you do not like?  What if they believe in the river vote?  What if your on the wrong side morally?

That's a lot of What If's.

I know that unless they are total hypocrites, that they CANNOT say making the impoverished of Tulsa County MORE impoverished by raising the prices that they pay through a NEW FRIVILOUS TAX is a moral act.  

Tulsa's poor will pay more on every sack of groceries, every stitch of clothes for their children, every kilowatt hour of electricity, every cable TV bill, and every whiff of natural gas this winter, to move sand around in the Arkansas River.

That I suspect is why there is such a deafening silence from our local clergy.

[:O]

[RecycleMichael]

So...Bear...

What did your preacher say this Sunday morning about the proposed river improvement tax?

The closest my preacher got to discussing the issue was talking about Jesus changing water into wine. I don't think that was about the Arkansas River, but you have to admit it would make it quite a tourist attraction.

And Bear...don't call people hypocrites unless you want the tag yourself. You speak of peace and love, but have an avatar of a man running away from a bear attack.