Upping The Ante On The River

[Conan71]

I've seen far fewer of the No signs on public right-of-way.  They had trash crews working HWY 75 between 21st and the 244 split this morning.  I'll be interested to see if they bagged the illegally placed Yes signs.  Wish I'd have had a few No signs to stick in next to them so I could feed FB's conspiracy theories if they left the Yes ones in place and took the No's.

[South County]

quote:Originally posted by Sangria

I'll take a dozen No Miller signs and pay for them myself.

They have not yet bribed gifted anything to Glenpool yet.

Not so much as a jar of generic vasilene. []

anyone notice all the signs located on the right of ways?

The Glenpool leadership has told an interesting story. Back in June and July they asked to not be part of the tax and they were told too bad by the County and charitable groups. Once they found out they would have to pony up they asked for some help with their econ. development project (a large 850 acre business park). They were told (by the County and Charities) if one penny was spent off the river all the private funds would pack up and go home. If one penny goes off the river the County would loose all 117MM of private money. Now the yes side says all along 5MM was meant for parks and pools off the river That's not the story Glenpool was told. They didn't even get the jar of generic petroleum jelly!!!!![:O]  

[Double A]

2007 City Utility rate increases from the Whirled:

Utility increases:  Tulsa residents likely won't escape this budget year without paying a bit more on their sewer and stormwater bills.

A sewer rate increase of 7 percent is proposed that would amount to an extra $1.30 per month for a single-family home.

Also, a 4.5 percent increase in the stormwater rate is in the budget. That would translate to an additional 16 cents per home.

No increases are recommended for water or residential trash rates.

Water, sewer and stormwater rates were all increased in the last budget.

2006 city utility rate increases from the Whirled:

The proposed increases include a 7 percent hike for water service, 9 percent for sewer and 25 percent for stormwater. Budget officials say the total cost to the average Tulsa household for these hikes would be about $3.72 per month.

Just to recap, in the last two years:

Sewer rates increased 16%

Stormwater rates increased 29.5%

Water rates increased 7%

That's over a 50% cumulative increase on household utility budgets over the last two years, and that does not even include the monthly EMSA subsidy fee of $3.64 cents.

Consumers face record winter heating costs
Yahoo! News
September 25, 2007

U.S. consumers are expected to pay record prices for heating oil, electricity and propane to warm their homes this winter, and low-income families will need government help to cover those bills, government energy officials said on Tuesday.

Heating fuel expenses this winter will be highest for heating oil, with the average family paying $1,834 for the season, up 28 percent or $402 from last year, according to the National Energy Assistance Directors' Association.

The group expects propane costs to average $1,732, up 30 percent or $384. Consumers that rely on electricity for heat will pay $883 this winter, up 7 percent or $58.

Natural gas expenses will be the cheapest of the major heating fuels, averaging $881, up 5 percent or $50, the group said.

Mark Wolfe, the group's executive director, called on the Bush administration to immediately release money from the government's Low Income Home Energy Program, commonly known as LIHEAP, to help poor families pay their heating bills as well as cover past-due high cooling bills from the summer.

"These record prices will place a significant burden on low and moderate income families this winter with record high prices," Wolfe said.

The group points out that poor households pay a higher share of their income for heating costs than other families.

During 2005, energy expenses accounted for 20 percent of the income of households that received LIHEAP assistance, compared to only 3 percent for higher income families.

The group's report is based on preliminary heating fuel estimates from the U.S. Energy Information Administration. The EIA, which is the Energy Department independent analytical arm, will issue its official winter forecast on October 9.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by South County

quote:Originally posted by Sangria

I'll take a dozen No Miller signs and pay for them myself.

They have not yet bribed gifted anything to Glenpool yet.

Not so much as a jar of generic vasilene. []

anyone notice all the signs located on the right of ways?

The Glenpool leadership has told an interesting story. Back in June and July they asked to not be part of the tax and they were told too bad by the County and charitable groups. Once they found out they would have to pony up they asked for some help with their econ. development project (a large 850 acre business park). They were told (by the County and Charities) if one penny was spent off the river all the private funds would pack up and go home. If one penny goes off the river the County would loose all 117MM of private money. Now the yes side says all along 5MM was meant for parks and pools off the river That's not the story Glenpool was told. They didn't even get the jar of generic petroleum jelly!!!!![:O]  

Voters across Tulsa County will consider increasing sales tax by four-tenths of a penny on Oct. 9. Less than half of a cent may not sound like much, but to many communities it will push their sales tax merchants collect to a different level.

The tax, if passed, will generate $282 million over a seven year period to fund development along the Arkansas River.


Tulsa County currently has a 1.017 cent sales tax in place, according to the Oklahoma Tax Commission.

The city of Glenpool has the highest municipal sales tax at 4 cents on every dollar. Bixby and Sand Springs have the second highest city sales tax at 3.5 cents.

Six communities - Owasso, Tulsa, Skiatook, Broken Arrow, Collinsville, Jenks, and Sperry - are at the 3 cent level.

The state sales tax is 4.5 cents. By adding the city, state and county taxes together, which is what merchants are required to charge customers on every dollar the rate varies from community to community.

In Glenpool the current rate is 9.51. If the river tax is passed Glenpool merchants will be charging 9.917 cents on every dollar. Glenpool took in $183,656.96 in sales tax for the September 2007 reporting period, compared to $179,656.28 for the same period in 2006.

In Owasso the current rate is 8.517 cents, if county voters approve the river tax that will increase to 8.917 cents. Owasso received $1,312,193.14 in sales tax revenue on its three cent city sales tax for the September 2007 reporting period, compared to $1,364,828.62 in 2006 for the same time.

Broken Arrow's municipal sales tax is also at three cents. During the September 2007 reporting period it received $2,386,789.89 in sales tax revenue. This compares to $2,419,248.09 for the same time in 2006.

Sand Springs, where the local tax rate is 3.5 cents, took in $777,589.93 during the September 2007 period compared to $801,193.58 in 2006.

Bixby, with a current rate of 3.5 cents, took in $599,851.95 for September and 615,681.20 in 2006.

Tulsa's sales tax rate is at 3 cents. During the September 2007 reporting period they took in $17,065,733.17 compared to $16,258,254.81.

Sales reports are for a period one month prior to the month. The OTC's September report reflects revenues collected from July 16 to August 15.

Many communities reflect lower revenues for the reporting period in 2007 than a year earler, which may be connected state's new Sales Tax Holiday, which was enacted by legislators. The holiday was Aug. 3-5, 2007 and exempted clothing items for children headed back to school. The exemption was not on school supplies, however some legislators are consider future legislation that would exempt all school supplies during the weekend.

Current City Sales Taxes
Owasso - 3 cents
Skiatook - 3 cents
Bixby - 3.5 cents
Broken Arrow - 3 cents
Collinsville - 3 cents
Glenpool - 4 cents
Jenks - 3 cents
Sperry - 3 cents
Sand Springs - 3.5 cents
Tulsa - 3 cents

Current County Sales Tax
Tulsa County - 1.0170 cents

State Sales Tax
State tax - 4.5 cents



"This vote is not about the river;

  it is about Tulsa priorities."

 

    "At a time when our streets are deteriorating, schools are failing,

and crime is rising, the City of Tulsa would be foolish to surrender more

taxing authority to the county.

    This county tax is bad public policy.  It places the cities within

Tulsa County at the mercy of county government and diverts vital resources

the cities may need in order to fix basic infrastructure."

Roscoe H. Turner

Tulsa City Council Chairman

[RecycleMichael]

Your facts and figures don't make your point.

Yes, utility rates have gone up, but it is wrong to imply they have gone up 50%. You don't get to add up all the percentages in regular math. If I buy a hundred items at the grocery store and they each have gone up one percent, my total bill is still only one percent higher, not a hundred percent.

The average City of Tulsa residential utility bill is about ten dollars higher per month than it was four years ago. Yes, that is higher.

But most costs have gone up, including fuel and payroll costs. Have you not paid more for items such as fuel in the last four years? Do you really expect everything to cost the same forever?

And by the way, you conveniently left off where costs have gone down. The city is lowering residential trash rates by 7.5% this year and lowered commercial rates by over 75% when the trash plant closed.

I agree that Glenpool will be the most affected by a new sales tax for the county, but it is because the citizens there voted to raise their city sales tax rates to be 33% higher than almost any other city. The citizens of Glenpool were convinced that paying a little more would make a better community.

That is all that this vote is for the entire county. It is an opportunity for county citizens to come together and agree to pay a little bit more for a better community.

[waterboy]

There are other failures in your logic and numbers as well. I guess they came from Roscoe Turner which is discouraging.

Taking one month's sales tax reports and making a direct comparison is foolhardy. Too many variables including weather, political events, stock market, availability of credit, wars, etc. Its what you refer to as spin.

You should instead pick a larger time frame and look for a trend. Throw out the non-conforming info, the highest and lowest numbers and well...put some thought into it.

Beware the unintended consequences of convincing people that we are paying too much in sales tax. Rising costs of materials and services effect government as well as private business. Unlike business, a city can't just cut back the services they provide or file bankruptcy or buy a competitor and raid their capital resources. If sales taxes are not available, other sources will be found. It won't be ad valorem tax because it turns out that may fluctuate too much. Also very unpopular with the public. It most likely will be a city income tax. You ready for that AA?

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Your facts and figures don't make your point.

Yes, utility rates have gone up, but it is wrong to imply they have gone up 50%. You don't get to add up all the percentages in regular math. If I buy a hundred items at the grocery store and they each have gone up one percent, my total bill is still only one percent higher, not a hundred percent.

The average City of Tulsa residential utility bill is about ten dollars higher per month than it was four years ago. Yes, that is higher.

But most costs have gone up, including fuel and payroll costs. Have you not paid more for items such as fuel in the last four years? Do you really expect everything to cost the same forever?

And by the way, you conveniently left off where costs have gone down. The city is lowering residential trash rates by 7.5% this year and lowered commercial rates by over 75% when the trash plant closed.

I agree that Glenpool will be the most affected by a new sales tax for the county, but it is because the citizens there voted to raise their city sales tax rates to be 33% higher than almost any other city. The citizens of Glenpool were convinced that paying a little more would make a better community.

That is all that this vote is for the entire county. It is an opportunity for county citizens to come together and agree to pay a little bit more for a better community.

The numbers don't lie, you do.

[Breadburner]

As of Noon today 335 people have voted.....

[Conan71]

As the late Honorable Mayor Daley used to say:

"Vote early and vote often..."

And remember, no election is over until every graveyard has been canvassed.

[]

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

As of Noon today 335 people have voted.....

I was number 414 at about 1:30. Did we cancel out each others vote?

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

As of Noon today 335 people have voted.....

I was number 414 at about 1:30. Did we cancel out each others vote?

NO!...heh...

[South County]

[/quote]
The Glenpool leadership has told an interesting story. Back in June and July they asked to not be part of the tax and they were told too bad by the County and charitable groups. Once they found out they would have to pony up they asked for some help with their econ. development project (a large 850 acre business park). They were told (by the County and Charities) if one penny was spent off the river all the private funds would pack up and go home. If one penny goes off the river the County would loose all 117MM of private money. Now the yes side says all along 5MM was meant for parks and pools off the river That's not the story Glenpool was told. They didn't even get the jar of generic petroleum jelly!!!!![:O]  

[/quote]

[8D]Here is the story from the Glenpool Post.[8D]

Calling a near 10 percent tax rate a "bitter pill to swallow," Glenpool Mayor Shayne Buchanan voiced his dissatisfaction with the Arkansas River tax proposal that will go before the voters Oct. 9.


If voters approve the $282 million river plan funding land purchases and low water dams along the Arkansas, Glenpool's sales tax will increase to 9.917 cents on every dollar. The non-river town will receive no direct benefits from the development of the Arkansas.

"All the non-river cities are really upset about this," Buchanan said Friday afternoon, as voting day approached. "There's a big divide. It's going to take a lot of work to mend those fences after this vote, and we didn't have to go this route."
 
In the fall of 2006, Buchanan said he was assured that elected officials of non-river cities would be included in the planning of tax proposals for river development, he said. Instead, a river development meeting in June, 2007, was cancelled and never rescheduled. He only heard about the current tax proposal in the news, he added.

"We're going to be included in the tax, but we've been excluded from the planning process," Buchanan said.

Though Buchanan has consistently opposed taxing all of Tulsa County for the river improvements, he has become more outspoken of late. The final straw for Buchanan and Glenpool Vice Mayor Keith Robinson was the recent announcement that $5 million in private donations will go to needy Tulsa parks and swimming pools should the river tax pass. Glenpool representatives had been told that no other funding needs were eligible for public or private funds related to the river development, the mayor said.

"We were assured that if one penny is spent off the river, the foundation would pull out and we will lose every private dollar," Buchanan said. "If we're going to spend money, it has to be on the river. Last Wednesday I learned that, all along, $5 million of the private money has always been intended to be spent on parks - off the river."

"All of a sudden when disadvantaged areas seemed to be going against them, they come up with $5 million," Robinson said. "It's nothing but an attempt to buy votes."

Buchanan suggested that since the river development has been called a "big economic development project," that it would have been fair to take some of the funds and finance economic development issues in the non-river towns in Tulsa County that will be taxed.

"River development is a good idea," he concluded. "Channels to get a constant flow - that's cutting edge. But for me, raising our sales tax rate to essentially 10 percent is a bitter pill to swallow for a project with this track record."

City councilor Tim Fox said he is adamantly against the river tax proposal.

"I don't care if they'd give us a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for our support," he said. "I think the citizens of Glenpool are taxed to the max."

[TheArtist]

I really do think we need to find another way to pay for things in our cities other than a sales tax. Regardless of how the total tax burden in our state ranks. Its still at best pshychologically a negative to have such an almost 10% tax on the things you buy. I may be used to it and just automatically figure it that way anyway, but an out of towner isnt going to know that we dont have a city income tax, low property and utility taxes, etc. There is no way people are going to allow it to hit or go over that 10% mark. Gleenpool is maxed out.

However I dont agree that they cant be positively affected by improvements along the river. They are going to be the next growth area after Jenks anyway as property is sapped up by developers following the heard south. Some aquaintances the other day called all excited that they had found some property near the beach in their price range in SF. It was only 10 miles from the beach! Here if something is 10 miles away people act as if its on the other side of the planet and has nothing to do with them. Its really odd actually how many people judge distances around here. Just how far is Glenpool from the river or Tulsa?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I really do think we need to find another way to pay for things in our cities other than a sales tax. Regardless of how the total tax burden in our state ranks. Its still at best pshychologically a negative to have such an almost 10% tax on the things you buy. I may be used to it and just automatically figure it that way anyway, but an out of towner isnt going to know that we dont have a city income tax, low property and utility taxes, etc. There is no way people are going to allow it to hit or go over that 10% mark. Gleenpool is maxed out.

However I dont agree that they cant be positively affected by improvements along the river. They are going to be the next growth area after Jenks anyway as property is sapped up by developers following the heard south. Some aquaintances the other day called all excited that they had found some property near the beach in their price range in SF. It was only 10 miles from the beach! Here if something is 10 miles away people act as if its on the other side of the planet and has nothing to do with them. Its really odd actually how many people judge distances around here. Just how far is Glenpool from the river or Tulsa?

Not far at all. As I enter the Creek expressway each morning, the traffic lights for Glenpool are within sight. Once you are on the Creek, you reach the site of RiverWalk within minutes. About 3miles. They stand to be the bedroom community for Jenks and reap much benefit. Owasso has a better case for opposition than Glenpool. BA has blinders on.

Sales taxes are regressive but a 1/4 cent is not too difficult for anyone. There is a lot of sour grapes going on right now within these "non" river towns. They want to grow with our help, and off of our tax base, but they don't like to admit that the growth comes with strings and is tenous. We decline, the ripple will be felt there later.

The answer is increasingly obvious. A city income tax will force the outlying communities to face up to their dependence on Tulsa jobs and infrastructure that fuel their growth and make them pay their share.

[South County]

FYI - Glenpool starts at 121st and HWY 75. The traffic light for GP is at 141st. The lights you can see from the Creek TP is 111th, which is all Jenks.

I think the closest Glenpool comes to the river is about 3 to 4 miles.