The New Tulsa Landing (if the river vote passes)

[Renaissance]

I finally got a scoop . . .

This is really, very exciting if it comes to pass.  Not that I have any real hope, but I will definitely cross my fingers.

http://tulsabusinessjournal.com/article.asp?aID=46028

quote: Branson Landing developers at 3 p.m. Wednesday will announce the construction of a 22,000-seat baseball stadium on the Arkansas River as part of a $500-million mixed-use complex.
The construction will hinge on Tulsa County voters approving the sales tax on Oct. 9, said Rick Huffman, CEO of Branson, Mo.-based HCW Inc. Huffman will discuss the project and explain why he expects the Tulsa Landing concept will be a proven model in terms of job growth, sales taxes and property taxes.

"We have been working with the city and county," he said. "Our company will invest private equity into the project to build a multi-use center."

The baseball stadium will be large enough to house a AAA franchise, which requires seating capacity between 20,000 and 22,000, Huffman said.

The "Tulsa Landing" concept will also include lighting and fountains and a "major cultural attraction" or museum, Huffman said.

"Passage of the vote is necessary for land acquisition," Huffman said Wednesday morning.

If the voters defeat the sales tax proposal, county officials would have to "decide whether to move forward," he said.

"A lot depends on the vote," Huffman said.

If the voters approve the 0.4-cent tax, the county would issue a request for proposals for construction along the west bank of the Arkansas River between 11th and 21st streets.

Ownership of the property would be decided at a later date, he said. "Once the tax has been approved, then the project goes to developers like us. We have not figured out land ownership yet."  

[cannon_fodder]

Holy crap, that sounds awesome.  Actual development from a private party - perhaps the YES people knew something they couldnt tell us?  Mind you, it stops short of actual commitment.

Also:

quote:Drillers Stadium was opened in 1981 as a 4,800 seat facility. Since that time, the stadium has undergone several renovations and is currently the largest stadium in Double A baseball with a capacity of 10,997.

If they are building one seating MORE than that they are banking on getting AAA ball.  Which would also be great.   But if we stay at AA the extra 10,000 seats will be used about as much as  (insert something clever thats rarely used).
- - -

Hope this happens.  God I hope this happens.  I'm tired of whispers and announcements and then nothing (actually, sometimes regression - like when whats his nuts tore buildings down after promising to renovate them, and then making a parking lot after promising green space).

Great scoop Floyd!

[sgrizzle]

So Maybe that is why they want to move, so they can go for AAA ball.

These developers have made announcements about this project before, but it sounds like they are serious now.

[Renaissance]

You know, the only AAA ballparks that have that kind of seating capacity are dual-use stadiums that can also accomodate . . .

wait for it . . .

paging USRufnex . . .

just a wild thought based on that capacity number . . .

Soccer.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

You know, the only AAA ballparks that have that kind of seating capacity are dual-use stadiums that can also accomodate . . .

wait for it . . .

paging USRufnex . . .

just a wild thought based on that capacity number . . .

Soccer.

Quick, someone shine a spotlight that looks like  a soccerball into the sky...

[carltonplace]

But that will only upset Patrick

[Townsend]

Wow, 30 minutes since the original post and no negatives yet.  Could everyone be pleased with this sort of announcement?

[Renaissance]

Oh don't kid yourself--they're just waiting on the write up by "the daily paper" (can't EVER lend the World the credibility  of mentioning it by name!) so they can get more details to twist and turn and rail against.

[Townsend]

I know.  I was just throwing that out there to make it shiny and happy for the moment.

[Oil Capital]

Tulsa Landing is potentially a VERY exciting project.  This is not really much more information than we had before.  This article does, however, raise some questions; red flags, if you will.  

We have been repeatedly told that the funds in the River Tax allocated to real estate acquisition will be replenished when the real estate is re-sold to developers.  It's not really sounding like Huffman is planning on buying this real estate and replenishing the river fund...("Passage of the vote is necessary for land acquisition," Huffman said Wednesday morning.)  ("Ownership of the property would be decided at a later date, he said. "Once the tax has been approved, then the project goes to developers like us. We have not figured out land ownership yet.")  Interesting, very interesting...  Doesn't really sound like what we've been told regarding the River Tax real estate acquisition funds...   Sounds like they are heading down the road of having the river authority buy the property, and leasing it (on very favorable terms of course)  on a long-term lease to the Tulsa Landing people.  There is, of course, nothing inherently wrong with that approach, but it's not what we're being sold by the River Tax marketers.

Another little problem.  Didn't the owner of the Drillers already rule out a Tulsa Landing location?

AND, FWIW, we need the baseball stadium DOWNTOWN.  Anything else will be another huge missed opportunity in the dream of a revitalized downtown tulsa.

[Conan71]

Holy crap!  We gotta vote for this now!  Little kids, baseball, Grandma, pools for north Tulsa, Apple Pie in the sky!

What does that do to the Driller's letter of intent with Jenks on a new ball park?

Nice add to the private plan.  Problem with AAA ball is it's still not "the show".  They will never draw 20K people to a baseball game in Tulsa, maybe 12 to 15K for the odd game.  The Drillers have been a pipeline for some pretty choice players over the years.  Baseball fans in the farm leagues are going to go regardless if it's A or AAA.  It's not going to create that much more interest except if you got someone like A-Rod rehabbing for a few games.

I'm not entirely poo-pooing this, just saying 20 to 22,000 seats doesn't mean there's an donkey for every seat.  A new stadium along the banks would have a real "cool" factor to it.

Now one benefit I could see is as this being a large outdoor concert venue down on the river which might get some bigger acts during the summer tours.

[sgrizzle]

Chuck Lamson's letter with the river district people just said he was interested and was completely non-binding. He also said that jenks riverfront was his #3 choice. Tulsa riverfront was his #2.

I am hoping the added seats are for amphitheater or alternate sports.

[Conan71]

Eh, I just had to crap the thread before FB got a chance.[]

[Renaissance]

There they are!  (kidding)

OC, those are solid points.  

It definitely sounds like they're hunting for a favorable lease from the city.  And I agree this isn't what we were originally sold, at least as far as rumors go (nothing on the ballot either way).  I can deal with a sweetheart lease deal as long as the development itself is sound.  I will be less than thrilled if it's a carte blanche land grant by the County.  But I agree that one way or another, the City/County is going to have to subsidize this thing to make it happen.  And I'm okay with subsidization--as long as the city retains some modicum of design leverage in doing so.

I'm honestly thrown for a loop by the suggestion that this thing will have a 20,000 stadium, since that's a necessity for AAA baseball.  This has got to be nothing more than pretty pictures, or else a smokescreen.  First of all, it takes some serious heavy lifting to get a AAA franchise--there is only one per MLB team so we'd have to snag it from Des Moines or Sacramento or someplace like that.  Second, AAA seating standards are in the 8,000-12,000 range.  20,000 is not a baseball stadium number I'm used to seeing; it's either 9,000 for a new intimate minor league park or 35,000 for a new "intimate" major league park.  And yeah--didn't Lamson say it was basically downtown or Jenks?  I thought the river had been ruled out as well.  I have a feeling we're going to see something basically identical to the Jenks proposal: a pretty picture with a stadium as a placeholder.  I would also reiterate that the capacity figure does seem in line with what we keep hearing as an ideal MLS venue size.  Could we be seeing the beginnings of a hint-hint to soccer people?  Who knows.  We'll know more when the World gives us a write up tonight or in the morning.

Agreed, though--this is potentially VERY exciting, but I'm not getting my hopes up too high just yet.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

AND, FWIW, we need the baseball stadium DOWNTOWN.  Anything else will be another huge missed opportunity in the dream of a revitalized downtown tulsa.

I didn't mention this above but I completely agree.  We NEED the Drillers to be in a new park downtown, either at OSU-Tulsa or on the site of the Hartford building.  Lamson has got to be one happy camper, though--he's going to basically have his pick of venues.