What time will the first media call the election?

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Status Quo wins again..

Hooray status quo!

I suggest status quo lost this evening.

what pisses me off is the CoC sunk all of their money into a lost cause...now the Chamber has no money to promote Tulsa in more productive ways.

1.3 million down the drain.  what a waste.

Add the $750,000 cost of the elections and bring to a cool $2 Mil.

[self-edit]
The more I think about this, I think the election cost is closer to $275,000.

[TheArtist]

This is really kind of frightening. I dont know if I want to stay here and continue to watch Tulsa flounder. I had a lot of plans for things I wanted to do here but if the city is going to keep going like this, it may not be worth staying and putting the effort into something where its not going to matter or pay off.

My best friend ever, moved to Dallas. Another recently moved to Chicago. My last assistant moved to Dallas and the guy that has been workig with me for the last 3 years keeps talking about moving. The office for the mural project I am currently working on which will take until spring to finish is in Dallas. I am doing the painting on canvas here and shipping it to the Oklahoma Texas Border and people in Dallas keep saying I could make a killing there. I may start getting my "house in order" so that I can move in the spring once this job is over.

I suppose deep down the one reason I have kept staying here is that leaving will definitely bring home the fact that I have wasted so much time here. Practically all of my youth, the last 20 years, hanging in there, hoping things would get better here, while my friends have left and lived it up. Guess its better late than never lol. I am not dead yet. [8D]

To all the younger people out there... Leave now! dont waste any time here! Take it from me, its not gonna change.

[MH2010]

I laughed out loud when the final results came in.  This was a disaster for Randi Miller, Mayor Taylor and the Tulsa World crowd.  

Hopefully, they will listen to the majority of the people and prioritize improving city streets and lowering crime.  However, I doubt it.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

This is really kind of frightening. I dont know if I want to stay here and continue to watch Tulsa flounder. I had a lot of plans for things I wanted to do here but if the city is going to keep going like this, it may not be worth staying and putting the effort into something where its not going to matter or pay off.

My best friend ever, moved to Dallas. Another recently moved to Chicago. My last assistant moved to Dallas and the guy that has been workig with me for the last 3 years keeps talking about moving. The office for the mural project I am currently working on which will take until spring to finish is in Dallas. I am doing the painting on canvas here and shipping it to the Oklahoma Texas Border and people in Dallas keep saying I could make a killing there. I may start getting my "house in order" so that I can move in the spring once this job is over.

I suppose deep down the one reason I have kept staying here is that leaving will definitely bring home the fact that I have wasted so much time here. Practically all of my youth, the last 20 years, hanging in there, hoping things would get better here, while my friends have left and lived it up. Guess its better late than never lol. I am not dead yet. [8D]

To all the younger people out there... Leave now! dont waste any time here! Take it from me, its not gonna change.

I hope you are placing the blame squarely where it should rest.

The failed leadership of this city lo these many years.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


To all the younger people out there... Leave now! dont waste any time here! Take it from me, its not gonna change.

I hope you are placing the blame squarely where it should rest.

The failed leadership of this city lo these many years.

It really is strikingly embarassing how inept the political leadership of this city is.  From a distance, it appears to be a result of a deeply mistrustful, divide political culture.  Note that party regulars from both ends of the political spectrum opposed the plan (you ever see Bates and DoubleA team up on something before?).  Note the name calling by both sides: CAVEmen vs. "Mid-town elite".  

I cannot see the City of Tulsa truly succeeding in a way that is tangible and undeniable, progressing as a livable city, accomplishing river development, crime reduction, downtown revitalization, or major street repair, until a truly strong, consenus building mayor appears on the scene.  A Giuliani or a Daley--someone to take the reins and lead.  And frankly, I don't know if the parochial political climate in this town will ever allow such a leader to emerge.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

This is really kind of frightening. I dont know if I want to stay here and continue to watch Tulsa flounder. I had a lot of plans for things I wanted to do here but if the city is going to keep going like this, it may not be worth staying and putting the effort into something where its not going to matter or pay off.

Oh now, this isn't over.  We're just getting started.

You'll see another package soon.  Probably bigger, probably more comprehensive and all-inclusive.  

As for the anti-tax idiots that troll the board, most of them don't realize, that this was probably the smallest tax package to be offered AND the least likely to pass from a strategic stand point.  At best it's just a delay, at worst it's a phyrric victory.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


To all the younger people out there... Leave now! dont waste any time here! Take it from me, its not gonna change.

I hope you are placing the blame squarely where it should rest.

The failed leadership of this city lo these many years.

It really is strikingly embarassing how inept the political leadership of this city is.  From a distance, it appears to be a result of a deeply mistrustful, divide political culture.  Note that party regulars from both ends of the political spectrum opposed the plan (you ever see Bates and DoubleA team up on something before?).  Note the name calling by both sides: CAVEmen vs. "Mid-town elite".  

I cannot see the City of Tulsa truly succeeding in a way that is tangible and undeniable, progressing as a livable city, accomplishing river development, crime reduction, downtown revitalization, or major street repair, until a truly strong, consenus building mayor appears on the scene.  A Giuliani or a Daley--someone to take the reins and lead.  And frankly, I don't know if the parochial political climate in this town will ever allow such a leader to emerge.

There's a reason City Council meetings always remind me of the war room scenes from Dr. Strangelove

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

This is really kind of frightening. I dont know if I want to stay here and continue to watch Tulsa flounder. I had a lot of plans for things I wanted to do here but if the city is going to keep going like this, it may not be worth staying and putting the effort into something where its not going to matter or pay off.

Oh now, this isn't over.  We're just getting started.

You'll see another package soon.  Probably bigger, probably more comprehensive and all-inclusive.  

As for the anti-tax idiots that troll the board, most of them don't realize, that this was probably the smallest tax package to be offered AND the least likely to pass from a strategic stand point.  At best it's just a delay, at worst it's a phyrric victory.

Wasn't the last river tax vote in the 60's?

Wonder what Kaiser has to say...

[MichaelC]

It won't be 40 more years this time.  Wouldn't be surprised to see it about this same time next year or early 2009, right after the Arena opens.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

It won't be 40 more years this time.  Wouldn't be surprised to see it about this same time next year or early 2009, right after the Arena opens.

Won't be before County District 1 election results.

The last river tax vote was around 1981-82 for the existing low water dam. It failed, too.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Won't be before County District 1 election results.

The last river tax vote was around 1981-82 for the existing low water dam. It failed, too.

*shrug*

At least we're setting a time frame.

Nothing about this seemed to me to be the "final word".  They cobbled this strange exclusive thing together, and they pulled out all the stops when it seemed like it might actually work.  

This isn't over.  Not by a long shot.  They know what they want, they know how to get it.  They almost succeeded with the half-assed version.

To those who voted yes, cheer up, you'll see this again soon enough.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

This is really kind of frightening. I dont know if I want to stay here and continue to watch Tulsa flounder. I had a lot of plans for things I wanted to do here but if the city is going to keep going like this, it may not be worth staying and putting the effort into something where its not going to matter or pay off.

Oh now, this isn't over.  We're just getting started.

You'll see another package soon.  Probably bigger, probably more comprehensive and all-inclusive.  

As for the anti-tax idiots that troll the board, most of them don't realize, that this was probably the smallest tax package to be offered AND the least likely to pass from a strategic stand point.  At best it's just a delay, at worst it's a phyrric victory.

There is no way there is going to be a vote that has more taxes than this plan. Nor will it be a county vote.  The suburbs were hollering about wanting any possible sales tax hike to be for their own needs. Most cities are taxed out around here and any additional future tax will specifically be for their own growing needs. I dont think people will stomach a 10% sales tax and many communities are getting quite close to that. What wiggle room they have left to raise taxes, they want for themselves.

As for north Tulsa, if they want to play the, "unless we get something, nobody gets anything" game, well everyone else might as well play that game as well. So many big donors from midtown and south Tulsa pay for charities and foundations, to help the schools, book drives, food drives, health services, hospitals, etc. etc. for north Tulsa. They probably pay far less in taxes to pay for their share of roads, police, etc. than other parts of town. In other words, they continually take and get more than they generate.  So if they insist on it being everyone getting as much as they can get for themselves. We should all just focus on our own parts of the city. If they dont see any value in helping other parts of the city out with their vote (cause they sure wouldnt be paying much of anything in taxes) I am not going to vote, or continue to give any of my money or time to anything for them.

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Seems the trend is, we want our taxes to be kept in our community. There is no doing something somewhere else for a supposed "greater good".

That was what made Vision 2025 so "right".

Tulsa County has been down this road before.  It has the right combination, and it didn't use it.  They slipped this thing in, refused to consider all options, presented it before talking to the county about it, and it failed.  By a relatively slim margin.  Large numbers of folks in this county, really wanted this.  And they damn near succeeded.

There were good reasons to vote it down, not everyone who voted against it was one of the anti-tax stooges that troll this board.  North Tulsa felt slighted, BA and Owasso saw no benefit to it, for various reasons, they had every right to oppose it.  You can fill them full of regional benefits, but in the end, you have to be persuasive.  You can't just say "awww, screw em" then cross your fingers and hope they don't show up at the polls.  Try including them, we've successfully done this before.

No new taxes?  48% voted for this package, despite feelings about Randi Miller, Kathy Taylor, a piss-poor but expensive promotion strategy, seemingly little forethought towards the burbs, and a whole bunch of lying anti-tax fools.  All you have to swing is about 3500 of those who voted.  And extending or hiking that tax wouldn't take much, it was low to begin with.  

If this is the best package that Tulsa County and the City of Tulsa can give, then they don't know what they're doing and they should all be fired.  They put out a package, said "you'll vote for it or you won't", then watched as they lost large swaths of the county.  Despite their largely pathetic approach, they came so close.

The way it was handled from the very beginning told me that the vote was closer to a primer than the real deal, even though they gave it a serious push when they closed the gap.  I'd have loved to have seen it pass.  I'm nearly 100% confident that we'll see a similar expanded package within two years.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Status Quo wins again..

Hooray status quo!

I suggest status quo lost this evening.

Yep.

[Breadburner]

Anyone think Swakes head exploded around 10:03......