World War 3? What the funk?

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by Conan71  

That's why asshat dictators keep an iron fist of intimidation hanging over the heads of their subjects.

Yup, we're at Homeland Security status "Yellow".

Are you "intimidated" by reasonable attempts to convey warnings about possible terrorist activity?  If so, I suggest you leave your basement periodically.

Just giving another example of "iron fist of intimidation"

Again, if you feel that a color coded alert status system is an "iron fist of intimidation," you need to get out more often.  Are you afraid of being oppressed by McD's because their coffee cups say "beware hot coffee?"  Damned fear mongering clown...

[FOTD]

Hmmmm.....sounds like someone familiar with the methods of intimidation.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by Conan71  

That's why asshat dictators keep an iron fist of intimidation hanging over the heads of their subjects.

Yup, we're at Homeland Security status "Yellow".

Are you "intimidated" by reasonable attempts to convey warnings about possible terrorist activity?  If so, I suggest you leave your basement periodically.

Just giving another example of "iron fist of intimidation"

It was very poor at best.....Try again....

It was great for me.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by Conan71  

That's why asshat dictators keep an iron fist of intimidation hanging over the heads of their subjects.

Yup, we're at Homeland Security status "Yellow".

Are you "intimidated" by reasonable attempts to convey warnings about possible terrorist activity?  If so, I suggest you leave your basement periodically.

Just giving another example of "iron fist of intimidation"

Again, if you feel that a color coded alert status system is an "iron fist of intimidation," you need to get out more often.  Are you afraid of being oppressed by McD's because their coffee cups say "beware hot coffee?"  Damned fear mongering clown...

I don't eat there so possibly deep down...

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

I had the pleasure of talking to a few Iranians a while back, two men and one women..At first they were embarassed to admit where they were from.....But after talking to them they were very vocal about their disdain for Ahmadinejad as are most Iranians.....

I agree with you, Breadburner.  And most analysts say that the theocracy has plenty of problems at home.  The content and tone of goofball's speeches varies widely depending on the audience.  If its an editorial in the local paper, he often appears to be very moderate and sane.  The theocracy has a tenuous grip on power; they are trying to herd a bunch of kids (median age 25 years; compare to US's 35) who know a heck of a lot more about Britney Spears than you would think.

And so, a lot of folks believe that much of his crazy talk is propaganda targeted at the US.  Though absolutely insane-sounding, it is just a form of attention getting.  Further, the Iranian people actually get what's going on many levels. Ahmadinejad says something insane, Iran gets international attention.  Bush then fires back something about WWIII and everybody winks at each other.  

As they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity.  Think about it.  What have they got to lose?  They've lived under sanctions for decades. Which is worse, living with a raving lunatic who gets attention or, alternately, being ignored altogether?  Iran is sort of the Paul Tay of the Middle East.

There's some pretty solid evidence that, on some levels, this is all an inside joke that 70,000,000 people get, but apparently Bush doesn't.  

That's not to say that there isn't a danger in this kind of brinksmanship.  When you've got a President here who also gets a kick out of saber-rattling, fear-mongering, etc., you've got a problem.  Point is, it's called diplomacy.  If a thug like Putin can do it, why then, are we talking about WWIII and "wee-wee yellow" alerts?  It bothers me that we are being manhandled by a handful of goofballs.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little
 Iran is sort of the Paul Tay of the Middle East.

That is brilliant.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Hmmmm.....sounds like someone familiar with the methods of intimidation.

**sniff*sniff**

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by Conan71  

That's why asshat dictators keep an iron fist of intimidation hanging over the heads of their subjects.

Yup, we're at Homeland Security status "Yellow".

Are you "intimidated" by reasonable attempts to convey warnings about possible terrorist activity?  If so, I suggest you leave your basement periodically.

Just giving another example of "iron fist of intimidation"

It was very poor at best.....Try again....

You guys are right.  I'm not adding jack squat to some of these threads.

I'll try to explain myself better.

My apologies.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little
 Iran is sort of the Paul Tay of the Middle East.

That is brilliant.

I agree.  LOL!

[iplaw]

quote:That's not to say that there isn't a danger in this kind of brinksmanship. When you've got a President here who also gets a kick out of saber-rattling, fear-mongering, etc., you've got a problem. Point is, it's called diplomacy. If a thug like Putin can do it, why then, are we talking about WWIII and "wee-wee yellow" alerts? It bothers me that we are being manhandled by a handful of goofballs.

Most people made the same mistake regarding OBL.  No one ever thought the rantings of that madman would become reality, and anyone who thinks Putin is engaging in "diplomacy" with Iran to head off a nuclear crisis at this point is smoking some good sh$t...

Iran is not simply "talking" anymore.  Iran and it's leadership are actively attempting to produce nuclear weapons, a point which no one can rationally dispute.  Even the ever-complacent UN is pissed off about it.  

Depending on Iran's populace is foolish too.  Though passively complaining about the current theocracy in charge, they refuse to actively engage because they know death is sure to follow any type of uprising.

I'm still trying to figure out why saying that:

Iran + Nuclear Bomb = WWIII

is "fearmogering?"  Seems like a logical conclusion for anyone paying attention to what Iran is saying.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

Here is one to chew on: if the liberal left needs to keep the poor and downtrodden 'down' in order for the liberal left to maintain power, what state of affairs does the right need to maintain its power?

What an interesting question, Tim.  Why, the military industrial complex needs a constant state of war to sustain itself.

Iran does not need to be bombed into the stone age, as this would only reinforce and galvanize the Shia's desire for martydom.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Most people made the same mistake regarding OBL.

Well, at least one person anyway.  Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US-- President's Daily Brief (PDB) for August 6, 2001.

quote:No one ever thought the rantings of that madman would become reality, and anyone who thinks Putin is engaging in "diplomacy" with Iran to head off a nuclear crisis at this point is smoking some good sh$t...

Never once said, or implied, that that thug Putin was trying to save our butts.  That's not his job, nor is it his objective.  He is simply taking advantage of a foreign policy vacuum that we have created in the world.  Just as China is doing with that other nutjob in Venezuela:

Businessweek:Venezuela President Chavez is cutting a deal to ship oil to China, which will lessen profits—and dependence on the U.S.


Putin is "talking" in order to further his country's foreign policy goals:

From ITAR/TASS:

quote: During the talks, which were held in the atmosphere of trust and mutual understanding, the sides discussed key aspects of Russian-Iranian relations and cooperation in various areas, exchanged views on important regional and international issues and reached the following agreements.

1. The sides confirmed that mutually beneficial cooperation in the political, economic, cultural and other areas, as well as cooperation on the international stage, meet the national interests of the two sides and play an important role in supporting peace and stability in the region and beyond.

2. The sides expressed their determination to further contribute to the steady development of multifaceted Russian-Iranian relations, keeping with the spirit and the letter of the Treaty on the Fundamentals of Relations and Principles of Cooperation, which was signed in Moscow on 12 March 2001.

3. On issues of trade and economic cooperation between Russia and Iran, the sides spoke in favour of increasing efforts to further expand economic ties between the two countries, especially in areas like the oil and gas, nuclear power, electricity, processing and aircraft-building industries, banking and transport. Both sides are convinced that the Permanent Russian-Iranian Commission for Trade and Economic Cooperation will make a valuable contribution to this work.

4. Special attention was paid to cooperation in the extraction and transportation of energy resources. The sides agreed to develop direct contacts between the two countries' oil and gas companies in order to sign concrete, mutually beneficial commercial agreements on joint work in all segments of the oil and gas sectors.

5. The sides confirmed their interest in coordinating marketing policies in oil and gas exports, attracting Russian companies to the development of oil and gas fields in Iran, including the Southern Pars gas field, and creating in Iran industrial facilities to produce, store and export natural gas.

6. Both sides confirmed their interest in continuing cooperation in the energy sector, including the modernization of thermal and hydro-electric power plants built with Russia's help and the construction of new ones, including the Tabas coal thermal power plant in Iran.

7. The sides noted bilateral cooperation in the area of peaceful nuclear energy and confirmed that it will continue in full compliance with the requirements of the Treaty on the Non-proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. In this regard they also noted that the construction and launch of the Bushehr nuclear power plant will be carried out in accordance with the agreed timetable.

8. The sides noted with satisfaction the signing of a contract to supply Iran with five Tu-204-100 aircraft. In this regard they expressed interest in deepening cooperation in the area of aviation industry further. The sides support the on-going talks between the relevant organizations of the two countries on the supply to Iran and the production in this country of Tu-334 and Tu-214 commercial aircraft and Kamov civilian helicopters. They also expressed their support for a speedy preparation and signing of contracts on these projects.

9. During their meeting the presidents deemed it necessary to continue work on the creation of favourable legal, economic and financial conditions for joint investment in Russia and Iran. In this context the sides noted the need to sign as soon as possible a memorandum between the government of the Russian Federation and the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran on the development of long-term trade and economic, industrial and scientific and technical cooperation and an agreement on facilitating and protecting capital investment.

10. The sides agreed to continue work on the development of the north-south international transport corridor, including its automobile, rail and maritime components, in the interest of further strengthening trade and economic ties between Russia and Iran, as well as other countries of the region.
In this regard the sides agreed to speed up the consideration of the issue of resumption of road transport communication between the Russian Federation and the Islamic Republic of Iran through the territory of (Russia's) Republic of Dagestan.

11. The sides expressed their satisfaction with the steady development of regional cooperation between the Russian Federation's constituent parts and provinces of the Islamic Republic of Iran. In this regard they expressed confidence that the resumption of operations in the city of Rasht by the Russian Consulate General and the opening of Iran's Consulate General in the city of Kazan, Russia, will facilitate further strengthening of interregional ties between the two countries.

12. The sides discussed pressing regional problems, expressed interest in bilateral and multilateral cooperation in Central Asia and the Transcaucasus with the aim of strengthening stability and security in these regions, including by way of closer cooperation between the countries of the region on the basis of mutual respect and interest.

13. Russia and Iran advocate the development of equal and constructive cooperation between member and observer states of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization on matters of mutual interest.

14. The presidents of the Russian Federation and the Islamic Republic of Iran confirmed the two sides' aspiration to solve all the issues arising on the Caspian Sea solely by peaceful means, through cooperation on equal footing between the five Caspian littoral states. They agree that the relevant norms of the agreements of 1921 and 1940 between Iran and the former Soviet Union remain in force until there is a convention on the legal status of the Caspian Sea.

quote:Iran is not simply "talking" anymore.  Iran and it's leadership are actively attempting to produce nuclear weapons, a point which no one can rationally dispute.  Even the ever-complacent UN is pissed off about it.

Again, I think you are missing out on quite a bit.  North Korea was supposed to have bombed somebody by now, right?  Interestingly, the US is making headway with that nuclear-armed madman.  What's our secret weapon here?  Back channel diplomacy.

quote:Depending on Iran's populace is foolish too.  Though passively complaining about the current theocracy in charge, they refuse to actively engage because they know death is sure to follow any type of uprising.

Never said I was depending upon an uprising.  I was simply pointing out that Iran is not the monolith that you might think it is.

quote:I'm still trying to figure out why saying that:

Iran + Nuclear Bomb = WWIII

is "fearmogering?"  Seems like a logical conclusion for anyone paying attention to what Iran is saying.[/quote]

--Break--

Right now, I'm just asking.  I pay attention to what Iran says.  I also believe that "fear" is a winner for Republicans.  I'm trying to discern the difference:

Iran:  "We want peaceful nukes--er--nuclear energy."  Propaganda designed to provoke mass reaction and fear in the US.

Bush:  "That's a good way to start WWIII" (Also?) Propaganda designed to provoke mass reaction and fear in the US.
 

[iplaw]

quote:
Well, at least one person anyway.  

Oh that's right...Bill Clinton knew nothing of OBL before 9/11 [xx(]

quote:Never once said, or implied, that that thug Putin was trying to save our butts.  That's not his job, nor is it his objective.  He is simply taking advantage of a foreign policy vacuum that we have created in the world.  Just as China is doing with that other nutjob in Venezuela:

You stated that he was engaging in "diplomacy" and that we should be doing the same.  Nothing Putin is doing could be categorized as diplomacy, so your comparison makes no sense.

quote:Again, I think you are missing out on quite a bit.  North Korea was supposed to have bombed somebody by now, right?  Interestingly, the US is making headway with that nuclear-armed madman.  What's our secret weapon here?  Back channel diplomacy.

Unfortunately you can't anaolgize NK to Iran.  They operate diferently because they have completely different goals.  Iran's goals for obtaining nukes are different than NKs.  Iran wished to obtain them to USE them, NK wanted them for leverage.  Two completely different goals.  

quote:
Iran:  "We want peaceful nukes--er--nuclear energy."  Propaganda designed to provoke mass reaction and fear in the US.

Bush:  "That's a good way to start WWIII" (Also?) Propaganda designed to provoke mass reaction and fear in the US.
 

That's because you AREN'T listening to what Iran is saying, you've only included part of their message. Iran doesn't care about provoking fear.  They are interested (at least the leadership) in the return of the messiah via a great war with Israel.  Their message has been loud and clear about what their goals are, it's just that most people aren't listening.

Bush's statement is completely reasonable if you take Iran's leadership at their word.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:
Well, at least one person anyway.  

Oh that's right...Bill Clinton knew nothing of OBL before 9/11 [xx(]

quote:Never once said, or implied, that that thug Putin was trying to save our butts.  That's not his job, nor is it his objective.  He is simply taking advantage of a foreign policy vacuum that we have created in the world.  Just as China is doing with that other nutjob in Venezuela:

You stated that he was engaging in "diplomacy" and that we should be doing the same.  Nothing Putin is doing could be categorized as diplomacy, so your comparison makes no sense.

quote:Again, I think you are missing out on quite a bit.  North Korea was supposed to have bombed somebody by now, right?  Interestingly, the US is making headway with that nuclear-armed madman.  What's our secret weapon here?  Back channel diplomacy.

Unfortunately you can't anaolgize NK to Iran.  They operate diferently because they have completely different goals.  Iran's goals for obtaining nukes are different than NKs.  Iran wished to obtain them to USE them, NK wanted them for leverage.  Two completely different goals.  

quote:
Iran:  "We want peaceful nukes--er--nuclear energy."  Propaganda designed to provoke mass reaction and fear in the US.

Bush:  "That's a good way to start WWIII" (Also?) Propaganda designed to provoke mass reaction and fear in the US.
 

That's because you AREN'T listening to what Iran is saying, you've only included part of their message. Iran doesn't care about provoking fear.  They are interested (at least the leadership) in the return of the messiah via a great war with Israel.  Their message has been loud and clear about what their goals are, it's just that most people aren't listening.

Bush's statement is completely reasonable if you take Iran's leadership at their word.

Nuke 'em until they glow in the dark.

Do it now.

Before they can fulfill their messianic terroristic vision of Khomeinism.

[rwarn17588]

<F.B. wrote:

Nuke 'em until they glow in the dark.

Do it now.

Before they can fulfill their messianic terroristic vision of Khomeinism.

<end clip>

Dick Cheney, is that you?