New apartments for Tulsa, possibly "Class A"?

[TheArtist]

Ran across this article. It seems some builders are considering the possibility of building some "Class A" apartment complexes like you see in Dallas and Austin. It seems its still iffy on whether or not our market can support that type of development.

http://www.multifamilyexecutive.com/industry-news.asp?sectionID=565&articleID=595322

[sgrizzle]

It says estancia is close. I would think a "luxury" development facing a backed-up 2-lane road would be a bit of a hard sell.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It says estancia is close. I would think a "luxury" development facing a backed-up 2-lane road would be a bit of a hard sell.

Its actually a quite easy sell.  I have lived there since Aug of 06 and love it.  You are close to everything on 71st without all the traffic and headache.  You have easy access to 169 via 81st Sreet. You are close to banks, restaurants, hospitals, etc.  If you want to get to Target, Pei Wei, take Garnett.  If you need to go anywhere on memorial south of 71st, you simply go down mingo.  The only somewhat problem is the construction that has been going on at 81st and mingo.  Hasnt been a big headache though.  Estancia has a very high occupancy rate, not to mention TONS of hot women at the pool all throughout summer.  Our neighbor just moved out, and they had another tenant in within 4 days.  For some apartments, there is a waiting list.  There is definitely a need for nice apartments like Estancia.  They are certainly cheaper then older "luxury apts" as well.

[FOTD]

Rupe? Suspect?

You know the cycle is near the end when these start to rear again?

81st and 75 200,000 sq ft retail....??

I remember when office buildings were being built all over the town....1980? Not many since.

And they did not even have TIF financing back then.....no wonder our public education system survived. Albeit barely....

[YoungTulsan]

If someone acquired the land to do so, Class A apartments in the Brookside area would do great.

[TheArtist]

Brookside is where we are beginning to see those loft apartments go in. Dont know whether they are class A or not but assume they are better than the average apartment. Though I believe they are more for sale, not rental. Even that article mentiones that it is getting harder to find space within Tulsa to build large apartment complexes. I am guessing they are just talking about the "good" parts of town. So even here the trend is for there to be more apartments built in the suburbs and what we get within Tulsas city limits will be smaller in size and or hopefully this will start the pressure to build up.

As for office buildings in the 80s not using tifs. That was a different era in many ways. Most notably oil was still big here, lots of higher paying jobs, booming population and growth within Tulsa because those areas like 61s-71st and Yale, and 71st and Memorial were the suburbs of their day. The Cityplex was essentially an odd fluke. It was also basically "pre computer/internet". Since then the oil companies have left downtown and people can work anywhere, no need for a downtown as a central office location. Everywhere is a central office location when you have a computer and an internet connection. The only reason to be in the city is because you WANT to be in the city. You like the energy and lifestyle a city has to offer.

Some corporate offices, since downtown is no longer the vogue or a must, simply build horizontal versus vertical. Look at the QT headquarters in East Tulsa. Its a large, flat, campus. Look at all those "town square/neighborhood" looking business developments in South Tulsa. Montereau is huuuge. You could have made 3 good sized 20 story buildings out of that alone. We are still trying to fill in many of buildings around town that went empty after the bust. Even if Tulsas economy picks up enough and some company decides to build a tower somewhere, if downtown is a boring, dead place, why build it there? Why not south Tulsa or a suburb where its nice, clean, attractive and closer to where more of our workers live?  Its a very different dynamic now in many ways.

[perspicuity85]

I looked at what Commercial Realty Resources Co. is brokering in Tulsa, and it's mostly crap.  The type of apartments this article is referring to seems to be suburban-style.  I don't see any problem with a lack of suburban-style multifamily building within the Tulsa city limits.  The new loft projects around Cherry St. and Brookside are class A or close to it.  The Retreat at Brookside is going to have 32 units, and will, according to the Tulsa World, "contain a number of upscale amenities, including oak flooring and ten foot ceilings with recessed lighting."  I would think that out of 32 units, at least some will be rent-able.

[spoonbill]

Several such projects are comming into Tulsa.  More than are mentioned in the article.  Most of what we are seeing is out-of-state money.  Billion dollar developers from Georga, Texas and the east coast.

It's a nice little injection of capital into the development market.  They have done some fairly exhaustive market studies and made the determination that Tulsa is in the correct cycle.  Our local developers are just following their lead.  

Some of the small guys mentioned are allready beginning to stumble because when big companies like Flournoy come to town they move so fast that they eat up all of the local development support services, making it more expensive for the local guys to do business. . .So the small cats like Rupe start to cut corners and cheapen construction, resulting in a poor or flawed product.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It says estancia is close. I would think a "luxury" development facing a backed-up 2-lane road would be a bit of a hard sell.

Mingo Rd. seems like an excellent opportunity for the city to design a road correctly for once.  With all the hospital/health services offices in the area between 71st and 91st along Mingo, as well as apartment and housing developments, I would think bike lanes would be a viable option.  There is really no need for Mingo to be a major auto thoroughfare, with Memorial and US 169 running parallel to it, not to mention Garnett's scheduled four-lane widening from 81st to 101st.  It would be nice if there were bike lanes stemming from the Creek Turnpike trail northward along Mingo.  The traffic on Mingo already moves dangerously fast in front of Union High School, and people rarely obey the school zone unless there is a police prescence.  What about the positive PR associated with a hospital supporting exercise and fitness?  How about a bike lane lobby coming from Southcrest, The Cancer Treatment Center, Union HS, Asbury Methodist Church, and the various subdivisions in the area?  I know the 71st crossing would be busy, but that could be remedied with controlled crosswalk access.  For instance, right turners would have to wait behind a digitally timed "no right turn" sign while bikers/pedestrians cross.

I'm waiting on the naysayers....

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It says estancia is close. I would think a "luxury" development facing a backed-up 2-lane road would be a bit of a hard sell.

Mingo Rd. seems like an excellent opportunity for the city to design a road correctly for once.  With all the hospital/health services offices in the area between 71st and 91st along Mingo, as well as apartment and housing developments, I would think bike lanes would be a viable option.  There is really no need for Mingo to be a major auto thoroughfare, with Memorial and US 169 running parallel to it, not to mention Garnett's scheduled four-lane widening from 81st to 101st.  It would be nice if there were bike lanes stemming from the Creek Turnpike trail northward along Mingo.  The traffic on Mingo already moves dangerously fast in front of Union High School, and people rarely obey the school zone unless there is a police prescence.  What about the positive PR associated with a hospital supporting exercise and fitness?  How about a bike lane lobby coming from Southcrest, The Cancer Treatment Center, Union HS, Asbury Methodist Church, and the various subdivisions in the area?  I know the 71st crossing would be busy, but that could be remedied with controlled crosswalk access.  For instance, right turners would have to wait behind a digitally timed "no right turn" sign while bikers/pedestrians cross.

I'm waiting on the naysayers....

Good Ideas, all.  I think most of that is in the improvement plan for the area.  I know that the developer is paying for quite a few improvements at the request of the city.  There has allready been huge interest comming from the staff of the hospitals (nurses and technicians), who are interested in living there.  

All we need now is 3 or 4 Starbucks on those corners.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It says estancia is close. I would think a "luxury" development facing a backed-up 2-lane road would be a bit of a hard sell.

Mingo Rd. seems like an excellent opportunity for the city to design a road correctly for once.  With all the hospital/health services offices in the area between 71st and 91st along Mingo, as well as apartment and housing developments, I would think bike lanes would be a viable option.  There is really no need for Mingo to be a major auto thoroughfare, with Memorial and US 169 running parallel to it, not to mention Garnett's scheduled four-lane widening from 81st to 101st.  It would be nice if there were bike lanes stemming from the Creek Turnpike trail northward along Mingo.  The traffic on Mingo already moves dangerously fast in front of Union High School, and people rarely obey the school zone unless there is a police prescence.  What about the positive PR associated with a hospital supporting exercise and fitness?  How about a bike lane lobby coming from Southcrest, The Cancer Treatment Center, Union HS, Asbury Methodist Church, and the various subdivisions in the area?  I know the 71st crossing would be busy, but that could be remedied with controlled crosswalk access.  For instance, right turners would have to wait behind a digitally timed "no right turn" sign while bikers/pedestrians cross.

I'm waiting on the naysayers....

Good Ideas, all.  I think most of that is in the improvement plan for the area.  I know that the developer is paying for quite a few improvements at the request of the city.  There has allready been huge interest comming from the staff of the hospitals (nurses and technicians), who are interested in living there.  

All we need now is 3 or 4 Starbucks on those corners.

Just reviewed the site plan.  You have wide sidewalks.  Not sure there is a any consideration for a bike lane.  

We have a hard enough time getting pedistrians to use bike lanes where we do have them.  I would be happy if we could just get BikerFox and the other moron to use them.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill


All we need now is 3 or 4 Starbucks on those corners.

They already have 1 with a drive-through.

[TheArtist]

Some of those areas in that part of town seem like they would be prime places to do half-mile through streets. Cut each mile section into fourths. Would enable a different dynamic and higher density. You wouldnt just have commercial and business on the mile streets, they could also be on the half mile streets, with high density living in the center of each quarter section. Mile sections seem to leave a hollowed out center in the middle with all the traffic, businesses and people forced out to the edges rather than more evenly dispersed. Half mile sections would help create development patterns that are more "european" and walkable.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Some of those areas in that part of town seem like they would be prime places to do half-mile through streets. Cut each mile section into fourths. Would enable a different dynamic and higher density. You wouldnt just have commercial and business on the mile streets, they could also be on the half mile streets, with high density living in the center of each quarter section. Mile sections seem to leave a hollowed out center in the middle with all the traffic, businesses and people forced out to the edges rather than more evenly dispersed. Half mile sections would help create development patterns that are more "european" and walkable.

There is a fairly unknown road that connects southcrest to TCC that lets you bypass mingo. It would also be easy to connect the road on 71st (101st, which has a light) that runs by lowes back to cancer treatment center. That would mean you could drive basically from 61st to 91st without hitting a main road and only crossing at lighted intersections.

[bigdtottown]

Just to clarify, The Retreat at Brookside is being done by a local company, Property Company of America...very sharp guys there.