No Plan B?

[Conan71]

That was one of Miller's comments- they want to talk to Inhofe to see what/where those funds can go.  I really don't understand why they need to be involved in the commercial/MU development since the two primary river-bank properties are within the city limits.  Someone needs to talk to the holder of the concrete plant deed and tell them to swallow about $20mm of their greed.  I believe the value of that property during the Channels fishing expedition was $30mm.

I'm still not overly comfortable with the county managing those funds.  They, and their preferred contractors and project managers seem to have an insatiable thirst for growth.

Things are going to happen, that much was obvious, and I'm all for it.  I just think they jumped the gun without all due dilligence being completed on the Oct. 9th vote.  Many people maintained there was no need for a county-wide sales tax.  I also believe we haven't seen the last of private funds being brought into the mix either.  Might not be Kaiser, but he's not the only wealthy guy (or corporation) in town either, just happens to be THE wealthiest.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

There is a "private" meeting taking place tomorrow on this at an undisclosed location.

If Plan B will require another election for increasing taxes, then a private meeting is not a good way to start the efforts.

[MichaelC]

I'm not sure.  But the County is already involved in the dams project, through Vision 2025.  If it's a big project, that includes the dams, the County might be the way to.  Besides the fact that the tax is County-Wide instead of exclusive to Tulsa.

But, for land acquisition alone, Tulsa can do it.  You'll still have most of the same "no" voters in opposition, but, that's just the way it works.  The City can do acquisition by itself, and leave everything else for later.

Acquisition is probably the most important thing, near term, IMO.

[Conan71]

They are going to have to work hand-in-hand and apparently, Fred Perry doesn't seem to care for the city council resolution.

The worst thing which could happen is a cat-fight between the city and county.  That could drag this out for a few more decades.  

I think MC is right, the County does have dibs on the dams since that is in the V-2025 package.

I'll be interested to see if Kirby or David Arnett drop in to talk about this.

[MichaelC]

That's where the Council comes in, and the City.  

The Sand Springs dam is purely outside City of Tulsa.  We could fund it, but we already have a dam in place, and the entire idea is to get development in that area where a dam already exists.

Then there's the Jenks dam, nothing against SS or Jenks, but as far as priorities, I think Tulsa acquiring the needed land probably should be first.

I would definitely support a City-sponsored initiative for land acquisition only.  Those other two dams, will eventually be built.  But the development part at the 31st Street dam, that can happen right now.

However, I do think the City is using land acquisition as leverage for a County-Wide tax.  Tulsa would get the biggest part of a County-tax, and the County would get it's dams.  The tax burden wouldn't be entirely on Tulsa.

[Renaissance]

I'm fairly certain the federal money, which is almost a lock to come through at this point, will be restricted to work on the waterway.  So it will be available for bank stabilization, park restoration, and yes, low water dams, but not land acquisition for commercial development.

[Vision 2025]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I'm fairly certain the federal money, which is almost a lock to come through at this point, will be restricted to work on the waterway.  So it will be available for bank stabilization, park restoration, and yes, low water dams, but not land acquisition for commercial development.

DING, DING, DING...Give the man a cigar!

To address another post:  Why the County involved is easy, the River Corridor is bigger than the City of Tulsa's jurisdiction and we stand a significantly better chance of getting federal or private help when we look at the big picture.  So, the County is the official sponsor with the Corps of Engineers (who any future federal funds will flow through) for implementation of the Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan projects.  

[MichaelC]

Well, all that needs to be done now is land acquisition, unless the dams go way over.  Let's move on, see about getting us some land.  Somebody needs to light a fire under these Councilors, give them constructive to work on.

[Conan71]

Sounds like the roles are becoming more defined just in our discussion.  The county should be working on the damn dams and main channel, and the city should be talking with HCW and whomever else may have an interest in making money on the riverbank using city owned property south of the concrete plant.

One thing which really pissed me off on the whole river tax was the guys from HCW being coached to say they needed the river tax to make their development happen.  Now the story is, oh, well Tulsa is attractive because they already have a LWD, they don't need dams at SS and Jenks.  Well no ****!  And yes, the city can provide the necessary financing functions if they think this is the best/only developer available.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Vision 2025

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I'm fairly certain the federal money, which is almost a lock to come through at this point, will be restricted to work on the waterway.  So it will be available for bank stabilization, park restoration, and yes, low water dams, but not land acquisition for commercial development.

DING, DING, DING...Give the man a cigar!

To address another post:  Why the County involved is easy, the River Corridor is bigger than the City of Tulsa's jurisdiction and we stand a significantly better chance of getting federal or private help when we look at the big picture.  So, the County is the official sponsor with the Corps of Engineers (who any future federal funds will flow through) for implementation of the Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan projects.  

Thank you V-2025, I figured we could conjure you up!

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

One thing which really pissed me off on the whole river tax was the guys from HCW being coached to say they needed the river tax to make their development happen.  Now the story is, oh, well Tulsa is attractive because they already have a LWD, they don't need dams at SS and Jenks.  Well no ****!  And yes, the city can provide the necessary financing functions if they think this is the best/only developer available.

You're talking about two different things.  They weren't arguing the dams at all.  They were just talking land acquisition.  Which is most likely true.  The City (replacing the County in the old River plan) will likely have to help out there, to some degree.  Or it won't happen.

Why you'd be "pissed" off at that, I'm not sure.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Sounds like the roles are becoming more defined just in our discussion.  The county should be working on the damn dams and main channel, and the city should be talking with HCW and whomever else may have an interest in making money on the riverbank using city owned property south of the concrete plant.

One thing which really pissed me off on the whole river tax was the guys from HCW being coached to say they needed the river tax to make their development happen.  Now the story is, oh, well Tulsa is attractive because they already have a LWD, they don't need dams at SS and Jenks.  Well no ****!  And yes, the city can provide the necessary financing functions if they think this is the best/only developer available.

Are you sure HCW was being coached? Maybe they were being honest? They said they needed the land acquisition done through the tax. Well, the vote failed and now that there is no defined money source for the land acquisition HCW certainly seems to be gone.

Tulsa very much seems to back to square one paying for consultants and hoping for federal dollars and thinking about maybe doing a TIF.

The city needs to be really careful here, if they use a TIF to acquire the land and the development falls through the city is on the hook to pay back the money for the land. It will be years, if ever, before anything is done on the west bank now.

Tell me, how did you all spend that $2 you saved on the tax last month?

[Conan71]

^^ I wisely invested it in the lottery, silly!

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Vision 2025

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I'm fairly certain the federal money, which is almost a lock to come through at this point, will be restricted to work on the waterway.  So it will be available for bank stabilization, park restoration, and yes, low water dams, but not land acquisition for commercial development.

DING, DING, DING...Give the man a cigar!

To address another post:  Why the County involved is easy, the River Corridor is bigger than the City of Tulsa's jurisdiction and we stand a significantly better chance of getting federal or private help when we look at the big picture.  So, the County is the official sponsor with the Corps of Engineers (who any future federal funds will flow through) for implementation of the Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan projects.  

you better build those low water dams now that were PROMISED in the V2025 vote.  No more excuses and "well buts..."

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

^^ I wisely invested it in the lottery, silly!

In that case I have some stock in a little company called "Blackwater" that you might be interested in taking off my hands. I hear it's going to do really well.