Drillers Downtown: Time Running Out

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I appreciate your sentiment.  It just seems like there's this general longing for baseball in our downtown, but we've been dawdling along too long and now the possibility is going to disappear for twenty years.  To use a foobtall metaphor for the baseball situation: We're losing the game and time is running out, but we're still punting on fourth down instead of going for it.  

I'll be interested to see what Jones-Lang-LaSalle has up their sleeve.  The problem is that they'll also be tasked with solving the development deadlock in the Arena District, and I'll bet the mayor's office has asked them to prioritize that over finding a stadium developer.  

But gosh, I'm just grasping at straws here.  Maybe the Tulsa World should start asking questions about how exactly our leaders downtown are seeking to offset the massive attempts by the suburbs to leach off the resources of Tulsa proper.  Or perhaps City Hall could issue a release stating specific goals with a timeline, instead of sending Himmelfarb around with vague promises of "things to come."

The Tulsa World asking questions of Tulsa city leaders... Do you suppose any of us will live so long?

[Conan71]

Floyd, this is one of the reasons the aquarium is down in Jenks and not at 71st & Riverside.  The city at times shows a total lack of enthusiasm for cultural enrichment unless it involves a bar.  It seems to have been consistent through every mayoral administration.

The Drillers are an asset, AA ball or not.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

[EDITED]

USRufnex, would you mind explaining your continued off-topic potshots at Oil Capital? I've gone back in the archives to try to figure out what he's said that has offended you so, and I can't see where he's dumped on Tulsa, on you, or on soccer.

I find a hidden bias.  It's a subtle bias.  It's really crafty, IMHO.  Certainly more crafty than the days a year ago when this poster went on and on and on defending DAVAZ's umpteenth sockpuppet... I'd characterize it as "gently trashing Tulsa"...

It's the kind of thing that as long as what Tulsa's doing doesn't upstage OKC (who already has a AAA downtown ballpark), it's perfectly fine with him...

Won't happen again... got OC on ignore... []

[USRufnex]

Back on topic, I haven't really posted on this thread, because I just don't have strong opinions on the Drillers moving to Jenks versus downtown...

I mean, they've been at the Fairgrounds for the last 75 years or so... if they want to move to a state-of-the-art stadium, I like the idea of a mixed-use TIF district whether it's in Tulsa (BTW, there's plenty of land by Hwy51 & Garnett off 169) or Jenks or BA... and it sounds like the Drillers don't want to be part of the possible Tulsa Landing project.

I mean, it's not like the Drillers would be moving to Claremore... or Muskogee... or Topeka...  

But I do think downtown needs attraction... the arena will be part of that and a few other things need to go there too... Children's Museum?  Omnimax Theatre?  Ampatheatre?  Ballpark?

The problem here is that downtown doesn't seem to get anything except a buncha unfulfilled plans... while BA gets Bass Pro and Jenks gets the Aquarium... something's gotta give...

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Back on topic, I haven't really posted on this thread, because I just don't have strong opinions on the Drillers moving to Jenks versus downtown...

I mean, they've been at the Fairgrounds for the last 75 years or so... if they want to move to a state-of-the-art stadium, I like the idea of a mixed-use TIF district whether it's in Tulsa (BTW, there's plenty of land by Hwy51 & Garnett off 169) or Jenks or BA... and it sounds like the Drillers don't want to be part of the possible Tulsa Landing project.

I mean, it's not like the Drillers would be moving to Claremore... or Muskogee... or Topeka...  

But I do think downtown needs attraction... the arena will be part of that and a few other things need to go there too... Children's Museum?  Omnimax Theatre?  Ampatheatre?  Ballpark?

The problem here is that downtown doesn't seem to get anything except a buncha unfulfilled plans... while BA gets Bass Pro and Jenks gets the Aquarium... something's gotta give...

You don't just "get" stuff.  Bass Pro courted Tulsa in 2001 but Tulsa refused to make the concessions necessary for the complex to be built.  Broken Arrow assembled a group to work with them and coax the project to BA.

Susan Branch tried to get the Aquarium built in tulsa for 6 or 7 years.  Again, Tulsa refused to step up.  I have a few more that you don't even know about that fell apart because they either got resistance from the city or feared resistance.

We have gained the reputation of a city that is hard to work with, while Jenks and Broken Arrow are seen as growth friendly and far less political.  Wow!  all of the advantages of the Tulsa demographic without the pain of dealing with Tulsa.

We had the opportunity for a huge festival complex and House of Blues in 04' only to be shut down by the city because they feared it would put the arena project in jeopardy.

If you want to "get" attractions, it's time to look for elected officials that make that a strong part of their platform, and have the ability to make the concessions necessary for those companies to come to town.  Some times those concessions will be distasteful to certain members of city government, but the people have to make it clear that it's time for Tulsa to "play ball"  (no pun intended).

Unfortunately, I fear that Tulsa will have to kiss a lot of butts and heal a lot of wounds before they can be seen as a city ready for a project like that.  

Oh, yeah. . .and fix some roads!  But if it means increasing property tax, we're $cre#ed.

[sgrizzle]

It's Susan Bramsch, not Branch.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

It's Susan Bramsch, not Branch.

Yeah, sorry, I always get her name wrong.

[USRufnex]

spoonbill..."You don't just "get" stuff."

Exactly.  Now you're preachin' to the choir... []

My perspective, naturally, is of an ex-Tulsan who loved his Roughnecks back in the day and has seen MLS soccer games in several cities... I moved back to Tulsa for family reasons in 2001 and was pleasantly surprised to find out Major League Soccer officials were still interested in Tulsa in 2002... over literally dozens of other larger markets...

I ended up shaking my head in amazement as Tulsans went nuts over LaFortune attempting to use $100k in funds to do a feasability study requested by MLS to see if interest was still there.  It was as if Lamar Hunt believed in Tulsa when nobody else did (Hunt coined the term "Super Bowl" and was known in soccer circles as "Uncle Lamar"... he passed away last year)...

I believe there's a toxic negativism in this city... something I don't recognize compared to the years when I was growing up here.

People in this city seem determined to make the perfect the enemy of the good.

Frankly, I hope Jenks passes this TIF and "upstages Tulsa."  Tulsa deserves to be upstaged at this point.  Approximately 30% of the city of Chicago is now made up of TIF districts... it's my opinion that Tulsa's TIFs have been on too small a scale to be really effective...  

[Renaissance]

As posted in the thread on the River District:  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071218_1_A19_hAfte02577

Time's up.  Seems almost certain that Lamson takes the Drillers out of the city.  What has Tulsa done to hand him a viable option?  Nothing.  Sad day for downtown.  We see what happens in a leadership vacuum.  This sickens me.

Don Himmelfarb: don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Take your vague, empty promises elsewhere.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

As posted in the thread on the River District:  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071218_1_A19_hAfte02577

Time's up.  Seems almost certain that Lamson takes the Drillers out of the city.  What has Tulsa done to hand him a viable option?  Nothing.  Sad day for downtown.  We see what happens in a leadership vacuum.  This sickens me.

Don Himmelfarb: don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Take your vague, empty promises elsewhere.

Should it become necessary for you to eat those words, which I think will happen, would you prefer mustard or mayo?

[Renaissance]

I'll take them with some horseradish on rye.

I certainly hope I'm wrong.  But I'm trying to avoid being a starry-eyed optimist on this one.  I would like to believe that there are active machinations behind the scenes that involve a beautiful new stadium on 2nd Street.  Without knowing any inside information, and given what I've seen this administration produce thus far, though, I'll be happily surprised if so much as a new rendering for an East End/Blue Dome stadium is shown publicly in the next 90 days.

EDIT:  All I need to give Himmelfarb and Taylor the benefit of the doubt is a statement to the effect of: "The City of Tulsa is actively working on alternative stadium plans that will keep the Drillers in Tulsa and will present them publicly when they are ready."  Just let us, and Chuck, know that the City is trying, so we can continue to keep up the public pressure.  I'm not going to keep writing emails if Tulsa isn't going to give the team a viable option.

[TheArtist]

When they decided to hire a firm to do an over all development strategy for downtown and the area around the river, it seemed to me that was a punt. Its safer and easier to say, "we are doing studies" versus actually making any descisions or doing any work. I get the feeling that any large developments along the river in Tulsa or in downtown are dead for the forseable future.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I'll take them with some horseradish on rye.

Well, you got good taste, I'll give you that. []

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

As posted in the thread on the River District:  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=071218_1_A19_hAfte02577

Time's up.  Seems almost certain that Lamson takes the Drillers out of the city.  What has Tulsa done to hand him a viable option?  Nothing.  Sad day for downtown.  We see what happens in a leadership vacuum.  This sickens me.

Don Himmelfarb: don't let the door hit you on the way out.  Take your vague, empty promises elsewhere.

Should it become necessary for you to eat those words, which I think will happen, would you prefer mustard or mayo?

Joe, what do you know? Can you divulge? GDP is obviously done as per the response Floyd and I received from them. Here is what I got back:

"when this came in, I was unsure as to how to respond.  I appreciate your interest and I also agree with your thoughts regarding our proposal.  I further agree that a Wal-mart would destroy any chance of revitalization of the Downtown.



However, the land is still under contract with the Wal-mart developer, so there is not much we can do.  We bought one city block and are trying to figure out what to do with it.  



Feel free to follow up, but I think the current administration is going to have to step up to something regarding this."

[inteller]

Tulsa has two things to add to the incentive pot.

Jack

and

Squat.

Welcome your new Jenks Drillers....or maybe they will rename them the Jenks Riverwalkers....or Jenks Antiquers.