Monstrosity on 25th street

[TheArtist]

I agree, the "white whale" as you call it, doesnt work for me, especially in that area with those nice homes. I actually wouldnt have minded it if the garages had been in back or somehow designed differently so that they werent big blank spaces jutting out at you.  

The one with the turret, well at least it is mostly stone. I dont like its proportions and balance though, especially that blank area above the porch entrance.

I dont really like the other ones, but I dont like the homes they are next to either. However, the best scenario in an area with those homes would have been if the "infill" homes respected the style of their neighbors. If the new ones had had similar roof pitches, been made of brick and had other similar design elements, they could still have been larger, or 2 story, but would have fit in. Enhancing the nature of the neighborhood.


There are several ways by which infill development can be done better. All are "Context Sensitive" in one way or another.

1. Reflecting the prevailing style or styles.

2. Reflecting similar wall planes and proportions.

Radically different styles can work together if they have similar set backs, proportions, and wall planes. Not every neighborhood would want that or would it work in. But some it may.

Some neighborhoods, especially those that have mostly one style of home, the infill would work best imo, if it reflects the style of the homes already there.

The other option is to go completely ecclectic and that be the "style" of the area.

I am not against infill, or bigger houses, but it seems that there is no rhyme or reason, no direction for these different streets or neighborhoods. So rather than each area developing in a reasoned way, picking one or another approach, its just happening without any coordination or over all thought to which may be the best approach for that area, or what the community may want. So you end up with the potential for messes everywhere.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

to either, so no loss either way in my book. The best scenario in an area with those homes would have been if the "infill" homes respected the style of their neighbors. If the new ones had had similar roof pitches, been made of brick and had other similar design elements, they could still have been larger, or 2 story, but would have fit in. Enhancing the nature of the neighborhood.


There are several ways by which infill development can be done better. All are "Context Sensitive" in one way or another.

1. Reflecting the prevailing style or styles.

2. Reflecting similar wall planes and proportions.

Radically different styles can work together if they have similar set backs, proportions, and wall planes. Not every neighborhood would want that or would it work in. But some it may.

Some neighborhoods, especially those that have mostly one style of home, the infill would work best imo, if it reflects the style of the homes already there.

The other option is to go completely ecclectic and that be the "style" of the area.

I am not against infill, or bigger houses, but it seems that there is no rhyme or reason, no direction for these different streets or neighborhoods. So rather than each area developing in a reasoned way, picking one or another approach, its just happening without any coordination or over all thought to which may be the best approach for that area, or what the community may want. So you end up with the potential for messes everywhere.

"Context sensitive" is exactly what these featured monstrosities DON'T do.  They're the exact opposite of context sensitive.  I'm glad I don't live in one of the neighborhoods, because I'd have taken it upon myself to keep those things from going up, and I just don't have that much time []...

[SXSW]

While I totally agree these houses, and many like them in midtown, do not fit into their respective neighborhoods it is still infill which is better than sprawl.  If these houses weren't in established neighborhoods they would be in a far-flung neighborhood most likely in a suburb and not even in Tulsa.  So while the design and context of the houses can be better and should be better, I honestly don't mind seeing older, smaller homes torn down for these larger, newer homes.  I'd rather see more of these in midtown rather than a new subdivision of them in Jenks or Owasso...

[pmcalk]

^^Infill is not tearing down one house and replacing it with another.  Infill is filling is spaces that are undeveloped, underdeveloped, are just unused, and creating more density.  Tearing down one house and replacing it with another bigger house is not creating more density, its just taking up more space, and creating termendous waste.  If a house is obsolete, and no one wants to live there, I agree it should be torn down for a new one.  I don't know what houses stood before the new ones, but I bet at least a few of them were perfectly good, livable, albeit small, houses.  So the person who was planning on buying a small, starter house in Tulsa may go out to Broken Arrow to do so.  You haven't stopped sprawl at all; you've just switched families.

[cannon_fodder]

I agree, it is waste.  But neighborhoods evolve over time.  If it is worth buying a lot to tear down the house and put up some megahome, so be it.   I'd rather a developer buy up a run-down area or utilize empty space in the Gilcrease Hills, but it appears customers don't want that.

So if mega-houses are going to be squished on to tiny lots and the choice is Owasso or in Tulsa, it might as well be in Tulsa.  The homes described aren't really starter homes anyway, the lot values are too high even if the "home" itself isn't worth the price (hence making it worth buying for the location).  So I agree with SXSW.

Now, personally... I see little attraction to many of these homes.  They don't fit in or make an attempt to do so.  They take up too much and not enough of the lot for my taste (if you are going to take up 80% of the lot, go somewhere and build them brownstone style with next to no yard at all).  And frankly, I just don't like many of the styles even if they did fit in.

But I would not advocate for rules prohibiting them.  Rule encouraging actual infill, redevelopment or increased density?  Absolutely. Otherwise, let the market figure this out.   The resale of a mega home that is an architectural white whale will punish the builder.

/full disclosure, the house next to me was bought and bulldozed for a new home (mold in attic did it in) and it worked out for the best.

[Gaspar]

There is no accounting for taste.  The White Whale is hideous.  

This is what happens when you have a lottery. []

I wonder if the owner will haver a bass boat parked in the driveway?


This was obviously designed by an amateur.  It doesn't look like there is 36' between the garages meaning they will have to back up all the way out of the driveway if they can.  The garages are single car meaning that someone is going to take out the center post attempting to turn into the garage.  For most cars you will need a minimum of 28' to perform a 90 degree turn. I think they will need to rethink this design (a little late).

The EFIS goes all the way to the ground (if that's EFIS).  That's against code.  Mold will grow behind the EFIS.  I bet I could walk around this house and find half a dozen violations.

Must have been one of those Wal-mart 3D home design programs.

One thing is certain.  It will never sell again.  This is disposable.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

While I totally agree these houses, and many like them in midtown, do not fit into their respective neighborhoods it is still infill which is better than sprawl.  If these houses weren't in established neighborhoods they would be in a far-flung neighborhood most likely in a suburb and not even in Tulsa.  So while the design and context of the houses can be better and should be better, I honestly don't mind seeing older, smaller homes torn down for these larger, newer homes.  I'd rather see more of these in midtown rather than a new subdivision of them in Jenks or Owasso...

You can have infill and it fit in. It can be a larger, new home and fit in.

There are various ways that a neighborhood can choose to have infill homes fit in.

[Kenosha]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


You can have infill and it fit in. It can be a larger, new home and fit in.

I have tried and tried, and no matter what I do, I can't fit in....to these pants anymore.

[Gaspar]

Would someone let me know who the builder is?

[AngieB]

quote:Originally posted by patric

The builder is La Bella Homes (Julius J. Puma) 298-6700.

From an earlier post in the thread. []

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaMINI

quote:Originally posted by patric

The builder is La Bella Homes (Julius J. Puma) 298-6700.

From an earlier post in the thread. []

He's part of the Jenks River District Development Group.  He's built some homes in the Villas of Tuscany and Wind River.  Only joined the HBA last April, but it looks like he's let that membership lapse.

This home is very poor PR for him.  Builders have a responsibility to the communities that they build in, as well as to their clients.  I hope this is not a reflection of what we might see in the River District Development.

This is an irresponsible project.  This would make a great story for the nightly news, and a good case study for the Tulsa HBA Builders Council to discuss.

[T-Town Now]

So nice that this builder saw to put the garages so prominently in front of the house. That is, of course, one of the nicer elements of a home, so naturally you want to emphasize it. [V]

And it blends in so nicely with all the other houses on the street, too... []

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by patric

And what would a 3rd-story tower be without all-night lighting?
[8D]

That is by far the worst 'feature' of this house. I'm weird, I actually sort of like the form, aside from the completely blank garage walls, but lighting other people's property? That's just rude. It makes me want to pull an inteller and start cursing.

[inteller]

oh yes thats right, I'm the only one that curses around here[}:)]

[midtownnewbie]

He must drive a Smart car.  That looks like the only car that you'd be able to turn into those garage door openings...