Monstrosity on 25th street

[Gaspar]

Why would anyone let that house happen?

[PonderInc]

"A mighty fortress is our home..."

Does anyone know why Tulsa wasn't designed with alleys?  In cities where they have alleys, you've got plenty of room for a garage in the back.  Plus, you have a terrific place to run utilities and hide the trash cans.  Then, you can dedicate the front of your house to being beautiful and pedestrian friendly.  (When you don't have to fill your front yard with a driveway, you can have smaller lots that feel bigger, and you can also have more trees / landscaping.)

Alleys: the cure to the "Garage-mahal."

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

"A mighty fortress is our home..."

Does anyone know why Tulsa wasn't designed with alleys?  In cities where they have alleys, you've got plenty of room for a garage in the back.  Plus, you have a terrific place to run utilities and hide the trash cans.  Then, you can dedicate the front of your house to being beautiful and pedestrian friendly.  (When you don't have to fill your front yard with a driveway, you can have smaller lots that feel bigger, and you can also have more trees / landscaping.)

Alleys: the cure to the "Garage-mahal."

I have relatives that live in Dallas.  Several of those neighborhoods have alleys.  They are wonderful.

Not sure what would prevent the concept here except the expense.  Lots more pavement, drainage, and engineering.  I'd say it would be quite a bit more expensive and produce a far lower yield, but if you could find people willing to pay an extra 50k to 100K for a house with an alley than it's doable.

My aunt used to tell a story about how she lived in her house in Dallas for 6 years before she ever met her neighbors across the street. People in her neighborhood seldom went out into their front yards, so at least in her example, it was less likely to produce a friendly pedestrian environment.  But then again I don't think she was ever a pedestrian.  Few people are anymore.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

"A mighty fortress is our home..."

Does anyone know why Tulsa wasn't designed with alleys?  In cities where they have alleys, you've got plenty of room for a garage in the back.  Plus, you have a terrific place to run utilities and hide the trash cans.  Then, you can dedicate the front of your house to being beautiful and pedestrian friendly.  (When you don't have to fill your front yard with a driveway, you can have smaller lots that feel bigger, and you can also have more trees / landscaping.)

Alleys: the cure to the "Garage-mahal."

Some of the older neighborhoods in Tulsa were designed with alleys.  North Maple Ridge, Swan Lake had/has alleys.  My house (built in 1915) had an alley at one time, but sometime around the '50s, the city closed off the alley, and deeded the property to the abuting owners.  While I like alleys, I know many that hate them--they say it encourages the "wrong element."  Not sure the truth of that, but I suppose that a darken alley that isn't visible from the street may be a good spot for some one to hang out.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

"A mighty fortress is our home..."

Does anyone know why Tulsa wasn't designed with alleys?  In cities where they have alleys, you've got plenty of room for a garage in the back.  Plus, you have a terrific place to run utilities and hide the trash cans.  Then, you can dedicate the front of your house to being beautiful and pedestrian friendly.  (When you don't have to fill your front yard with a driveway, you can have smaller lots that feel bigger, and you can also have more trees / landscaping.)

Alleys: the cure to the "Garage-mahal."

Some of the older neighborhoods in Tulsa were designed with alleys.  North Maple Ridge, Swan Lake had/has alleys.  My house (built in 1915) had an alley at one time, but sometime around the '50s, the city closed off the alley, and deeded the property to the abuting owners.  While I like alleys, I know many that hate them--they say it encourages the "wrong element."  Not sure the truth of that, but I suppose that a darken alley that isn't visible from the street may be a good spot for some one to hang out.

My aunt lived in a nice neighborhood, but the homeless would populate the ally, and every now and then one would get hit or run over at night sleeping near the garbage cans.  I never heard of any violent crime, but then again I only visited her a few times a year.

[HazMatCFO]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

"A mighty fortress is our home..."

Does anyone know why Tulsa wasn't designed with alleys?  In cities where they have alleys, you've got plenty of room for a garage in the back.  Plus, you have a terrific place to run utilities and hide the trash cans.  Then, you can dedicate the front of your house to being beautiful and pedestrian friendly.  (When you don't have to fill your front yard with a driveway, you can have smaller lots that feel bigger, and you can also have more trees / landscaping.)

Alleys: the cure to the "Garage-mahal."

Alleys also make it easier for theives to break in and few people see them. I know, I owned a home in Richardson, just north of Dallas and my home was burglarized from thieves coming from the alley.  

Alleys where everyone has privacy fences even worse.

So yes, they have advantages, but disadvantages too. This one was big for me.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

"A mighty fortress is our home..."

Does anyone know why Tulsa wasn't designed with alleys?  In cities where they have alleys, you've got plenty of room for a garage in the back.  Plus, you have a terrific place to run utilities and hide the trash cans.  Then, you can dedicate the front of your house to being beautiful and pedestrian friendly.  (When you don't have to fill your front yard with a driveway, you can have smaller lots that feel bigger, and you can also have more trees / landscaping.)

Alleys: the cure to the "Garage-mahal."

Where I grew up (suburban Philly, PA), there was a mix of alleys, not alleys, single family homes and duplexes.  I would not say that the alley made smaller lots feel bigger.  A lot of back yard space was lost and there was the potential danger of vehicles essentially driving through the edges of your back yard. The no alley option was safer for little kids to play in the back yard. Our block had an alley at one end for about half the block, not our end. The best deal was for the family that had the alley end at the edge of their property but not go through. The duplexes did not have enough room to put a driveway between the houses so for them to have a garage, the alley made sense, but they had almost no yard. OK if that's what you want. We were a little over 20 ft from our neighbor, enough room for either a shared driveway or one of your own on one side. The hill our street was on probably had some impact on the alley/driveway situation.

I don't know who or what entity was responsible for maintenance of the alley but most were not in that good shape.

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by patric

It looks like patterned concrete will be replacing lawn.  
Must have been inspired by the bars on Brookside.
Wonder if they did a drainage study?

Residential permits don't require one.  But they do require a certain amount of "livability area" which is unpaved, unbuilt on area (grass/landscape).  I've had many plans sent back to me for not having enough.

[tulsascoot]

I just saw that thing for the first time today. I usually really like modern architecture, but that thing is hideous, and way out of place for the neighborhood.

[patric]

I drove past the other day and they are replacing the roof already.  Last time they were having to redo the stucco.  Not the best endorsement for a builder.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Looks like crap.

But then Tulsa gave up on architecture decades ago.  Example;  Williams Tower in place of the Rialto, the Orpheum, and the other urban renewal victims of the early '70s.

Sweeping statement moment:
I have looked around in some of the "significant" housing additions in Tulsa from time to time looking for another house.  Have noticed when talking to the homeowners associations, many have an incredible array of "self worth", like their addition is soooo extremely exclusive and "all that".  But then, many if not most of the houses in same additions have garages as the main architectural element of the house.

Garages are proof positive that there is NO architectural consideration in either the design of the house OR the addition.

[Red Arrow]

Is an architect required to sign-off a single family dwelling design?  Can anyone familiar with the building codes design a house?  I don't know, just asking.

[nathanm]

But then Tulsa gave up on architecture decades ago.  Example;  Williams Tower in place of the Rialto, the Orpheum, and the other urban renewal victims of the early '70s.
...
Garages are proof positive that there is NO architectural consideration in either the design of the house OR the addition.

Most of the time. Every once in a while you see a garage done in a way that livens up the house (carriage house style doors, as one example). Anything you do starts to look cheap when every third house on a street looks the same, though. And it would still be better if there weren't an obvious garage.

Eh, I like the style of the Williams Tower. (err..BOk building..or whatever you want to call it) I'm weird, though. I think brutalist architecture is pretty neat, as long as there isn't a lot of development in that style in one area. For me, it's all about variety. Having both simplistic and ornate near each other pleases me, as it keeps the ornate buildings from looking overdone and it keeps the buildings with simpler lines from looking plain.

[Vision 2025]

Is an architect required to sign-off a single family dwelling design?  Can anyone familiar with the building codes design a house?  I don't know, just asking.

No Architect reguired and actually no requirment to be familar with codes either to design a house...

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's not necessarily the tower itself, although it in no way comes anywhere near the class of the rest of downtown Tulsa design... but the lost items bulldozed so we could have that thing.  I can remember going to the movies and other stores in the area lost.

Also remember working on some of the disassembly of the Rialto.  Magnificent place!!  Terrible loss!