Ugly in the making

[waterboy]

This past week I had the opportunity to drive Broken Arrow's two main drags, Elm (161st east) and Aspen (145th east). From 51st South to about 101st. It has been many years since I worked the area as an advertising sales rep and got to know the city and its development principles. Its leaders should be hunted down and prosecuted for germinating such ugly.

It had been a fast growing little town with an appealing, if not provincial, identity. Now it appears to be an ugly little suburban belch. The whole city appears to be slums in progress. They have made all the mistakes that the South Tulsa burbs made except faster. The roads suck, no curbs, open ditches, few sidewalks, burbs right up to the edge of busy streets that will soon need widening. Decaying, badly built, cheap shopping centers dot the landscape with anchor tenants that scream mediocrity (dry cleaners, fast food, medical clinics). Yet they continue to expand mindlessly.

Honestly, I don't see how the city can possibly maintain and expand such inferior infrastructure without raising their taxes or annexing more surrounding neighborhoods like they did at 131st east at 131st south. Or encouraging more of the eroding hillside development around Bass Pro. The eastern side of that hill is simply abysmal. Now I truly understand their failure to support the river project. It must have seemed like funding for a mission to Mars for them.

Ok, enough ranting. I'm a confirmed inner city guy. I am ever more impressed with the planning and competent building that went into these old neighborhoods. Maybe its just me and my ill feeling towards a community that focuses on religion, education and franchise growth to the exclusion of all else. Maybe Jenks and Owasso are the same? I know Sand Springs and Sapulpa are not. Though they may see that as a plan.

Edit: BTW I am so glad to see the forum back. I thought I had a stinking virus. I also am honored to be named "aquatic superhero"! "Admiral of the Inland Seas" is my next goal.

[patric]

You can always tell which way Broken Arrow is growing by seeing where the billboards sprout.

[TheArtist]

I have commented before on this.  They have been "fast growing" for a long time. They were "the" main suburb since I was a kid. Now however I am willing to bet the tide is going to change. With most good development going towards the Jenks and hwy75 area. The River District in Jenks if it actually happens will show what good suburban growth should look like, and once that happens BA will definitely pale in comparison.

I think BA wasnt planning on the future in any real way. They were just counting on their large land area and proximity to Tulsa to continue housing growth and that was pretty much it. The main streets and retail corridors were horribly zoned and spread out.

They may be ranked as one of the safest cities right now, but whatch as those neighborhoods turn into slums and the horribly situated and spread out commercial developments become vacant. I predict that in about 20 years people will be talking about BA the way they have talked about North Tulsa.

The wealthy nicer areas of Tulsa County will "spill out" alongside the river and around downtown.

[rwarn17588]

Good thread.

I've been in Broken Arrow a number of times, and I just don't get it. It's one of the most faceless, dull cities I've ever seen -- except for Owasso, which is worse.

I once lived near a suburb whose sole existence was for big retail and its sales-tax dollars. It worked for a while, but the city itself was soulless and without distinction. Now it finds itself scrambling with empty strip malls, crappy zoning and traffic problems because a better-planned town down the road has stolen its thunder and retailers are flocking there instead.

I've noticed that BA officials seem to go on the local talk-radio stations and brag. Brag while you can, boys ... you're about to turn back into a pumpkin.

[waterboy]

Lucky for Tulsa that its big growth period was during the 1920's when Art Deco was in vogue. Building construction techniques were robust and neighborhoods were built with walkability, streetcars, and downtown accessability in mind.

Unlucky for BA that it grew during the seventies to nineties. A period dominated by cheap looking contemporary designs using cheap materials and garage snout facades. No mass transit other than the express bus to downtown Tulsa and shopping centers that all looked alike. No Utica Square, no Ranch Acres, no Promenades.

They should at least pay attention to the first mile of impressions as people exit off the xprwy. Elm is a mile of car lots and fast food.
Even the original WalMart sits vacant at 71st & 161st. Oh, yeah, I mean Kenosha and Elm.

Welcome visitors. Our city has two names for its main drags since our original tenants were white flight Tulsans seeking cheap homes, low real estate taxes and new schools. As we grew we decided that we needed our own identity so we changed the names to fit an inconsistent system of builder inspired streets. However we didn't change them all to keep confusion to a minimum. Go figure. Some East/West streets are named for presidents like Washington, Lincoln etc. but others remain old school like Kenosha. North/South streets are roughly tree types, Aspen, Elm, Olive etc. but others remain tied to developments like Lynn Lane and Bass Pro drive.

At least one direction of streets should have been left as numbered but that would be so Tulsa. The seventies/eighties leaders were quite testy about being called a bedroom community so they trashed that concept. In many respects the problems of BA were simply a result of their major growth period and their intent to separate from the big city.

[bacjz00]

Aside from the many valid points you make, just want to clarify...

Washington and Lincoln are not named after the presidents, but the cities.  Washington, D.C. and Lincoln, Nebraska.  I do concede however that there are no cities in America named "Bass Pro" and to my knowledge there is no such thing as a "Lynn" tree (although there is a Linden Tree which is sometimes referred to as a "Lynn")

BTW, I agree in whole...B.A. stand for Bass-Ackwards

[T-Town Now]

I have to agree. There are really no redeeming qualities to Broken Arrow or Owasso. Acres of poured concrete, strip shopping centers, and lots of ugly, ugly, ugly.

I have friends who live in both towns, and I just don't see the attraction at all. Either town could represent perfectly the worst side of development.

And everyone I know who lives in either Broken Arrow or Owasso works in Tulsa, but spends their money near home. And they complain about our streets when they come to visit. And they both voted against river development. [V]

[Conan71]

Waterboy, you are correct, that area from the BA south on Elm to about 81st looks like pure trash as well as Kenosha from Rhema to Lynn Lane.

[RecycleMichael]

Even their town name is broken...

[TeeDub]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Even the original WalMart sits vacant at 71st & 161st. Oh, yeah, I mean Kenosha and Elm.

Actually that building has been occupied and been run as ELT for quite a few years.   Maybe you just drove by on a weekend when there was no one working.   (Granted the one at 71st and County Line... er.  193rd is a big empty box store.)

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

However we didn't change them all to keep confusion to a minimum. Go figure. Some East/West streets are named for presidents like Washington, Lincoln etc. but others remain old school like Kenosha. North/South streets are roughly tree types, Aspen, Elm, Olive etc. but others remain tied to developments like Lynn Lane and Bass Pro drive.

The East/West streets are named after cities, while north/south are names after trees.

I don't see much difference in the Tulsa methodology wherein the north/south streets are named after cities.   (Conveniently enough you do have the west of main is a west of the Mississippi river city and vice versa.)

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


Even the original WalMart sits vacant at 71st & 161st. Oh, yeah, I mean Kenosha and Elm.

Actually that building has been occupied and been run as ELT for quite a few years.   Maybe you just drove by on a weekend when there was no one working.   (Granted the one at 71st and County Line... er.  193rd is a big empty box store.)

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

However we didn't change them all to keep confusion to a minimum. Go figure. Some East/West streets are named for presidents like Washington, Lincoln etc. but others remain old school like Kenosha. North/South streets are roughly tree types, Aspen, Elm, Olive etc. but others remain tied to developments like Lynn Lane and Bass Pro drive.

The East/West streets are named after cities, while north/south are names after trees.

I don't see much difference in the Tulsa methodology wherein the north/south streets are named after cities.   (Conveniently enough you do have the west of main is a west of the Mississippi river city and vice versa.)

I did see the name ELT on the building, but I also saw the letters, For Lease as well. As far as the similarity to Tulsa, that only goes so far. Whereas Tulsa continued the practice till they ran out of recognizable names then logically continued with numbered streets "133rd East Avenue or 88th west Avenue" for instance, BA didn't. Once you get into the neighborhoods it gets confusing. And 131st South is not a city name.

I was kind of hoping Washington and Lincoln were named after presidents. Would have been a good concept.

[cannon_fodder]

I have spent very little time in BA, I have no real reason to go there.  It seems like a decent suburb, but at best it is Anytown USA.  Tulsa surely has many faults and is not the most unique place in the world, but BA grew rich and grew quick in the last 20 years - it could have learned from Tulsa and others and made itself something special.

As it stands, its the same as every other middle class suburb in the United States that "grew up" in the 1990's.  Enjoy Owasso and Jenks take over as the new middle class suburbs with their new strip malls and houses as you suffer the same fate you bestowed on Tulsa.

No offense, just as I see it.

[TeeDub]

131st is Jasper in BA...  

http://www.brokenarrowok.gov/images/maps/city_limits_0604x.jpg

[Conan71]

Sheesh, how long till they annex Fayetteville??

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub


131st is Jasper in BA...  

http://www.brokenarrowok.gov/images/maps/city_limits_0604x.jpg

They annexed where my parents lived on 131st. I guess they haven't had time to change the signs.

Real sweet how they named the East/West streets after cities, but didn't alphabetize them.

CF, as usual, you summarized my points well. They made the same mistakes in development as the city they so despised. Then created new ones. They lost their own identity by framing themselves as "not that crime ridden, secular, expensive, big city Tulsa" all the while reaping the harvest of our tax base. Now they will suffer the same fate as the decaying areas of Tulsa. Jenks seems to have learned some things from the process.