It's The Economy, STUPID!.....

[FOTD]

It's the attitude, Artist.....not the developments.

We need more attitude adjustment here to attract the pros.

[bokworker]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's the attitude, Artist.....not the developments.

We need more attitude adjustment here to attract the pros.

You're not helping....

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's the attitude, Artist.....not the developments.

We need more attitude adjustment here to attract the pros.

You're not helping....

I am certain hiding that fact under the rug will work.[}:)]

Head hunters and placement services use this site all the time as a recruiting tool. Right.

Bash me all you wish. But between my lines is an attitude that we need to change. All I get is resistance from the intolerant, the mean people and the evil doers.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's the attitude, Artist.....not the developments.

We need more attitude adjustment here to attract the pros.

I think the "attitudes" and "developments" reinforce each other.

For instance; Tulsa is good at attracting people that like suburban style living because it, plus its suburbs, is able to offer that in spades. Not too far away from the center of the city, very inexpensive, nice looking, good schools etc. However its ability to appeal to the urban dweller types is still lacking. (of course both of these examples are gross exaggerations used to get across broad, general, notions)

Jobs of course attract people, but people attract and create jobs. Certain types of jobs attract certain types of people, certain types of people attract and create certain types of jobs. It works both ways.

Creative Class, YP types often have certain types of jobs and likes. They often like living similar lifestyles, usually some sort of urban lifestyle. They can also choose to live pretty much wherever they want. Developments and areas of a certain type can attract them, jobs of a certain type can end up creating a lot of people that want to live in certain types of developments and areas. Again, both reinforce the other.

In good part, whats actually going on is that Tulsa is transitioning from being, in essence, a large suburb that happened to have some really large buildings lol, into a city. A real city is able to offer lots of job options, a wide variety of living and lifestyle options, lots of higher educational options, lots of entertainment and cultural options, etc.

We have all heard the story of some company here who wines and dines a prospective employee from another part of the country to try and get them to move to Tulsa, but the person takes a look at what the city has to offer and says "Nooo thanks". We have all had friends or relatives who have moved to other more "trendy cities" and locals. You can no more expect these people to change their attitudes, likes and dislikes, than you can expect the suburban dweller here to suddenly want to be an urban dweller. However... I would say that it is my experience that there are people here who would choose to live in a good urban environment over a good suburban environment, but because Tulsa offers up lots of good suburban options and very little in the way of urban ones, they obviously choose the suburban. In the last few years things have started getting better, but we still have a ways to go in order to have areas that compete with other cities and even the suburbs.

The "city" cant do everything or miracles, but it can do things that will either enhance or deter certain types of developments, areas, attitudes, jobs, and people. It doesnt have to be, and shouldnt be imo, all up to chance and the market. We can actively shape our destiny.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's the attitude, Artist.....not the developments.

We need more attitude adjustment here to attract the pros.

In good part, whats actually going on is that Tulsa is transitioning from being, in essence, a large suburb that happened to have some really large buildings lol, into a city. A real city is able to offer lots of job options, a wide variety of living and lifestyle options, lots of higher educational options, lots of entertainment and cultural options, etc.

Its the attitude, period.

I extracted that mental ejaculation above from your pontificating because its more dissociative than the rest of your rambling. (As you can tell it irritates me when people make assessments of what's really happening in Tulsa.) Take no personal enmity from my post please.

One has to be very careful what you say and to who you say it in this (un)real city if you are not republican, conservative and fundamentally religious. That attitude makes us toxic. It is pretty much the mirror image of the YP urbans you think we are attracting. Office talk is fine as long as it fits the norms of Tulsa politics and religion. Otherwise you may find yourself on the dead track or out the door. Those who don't know that haven't been paying attention and these yp's do pay attention. My son is one of them. He and his friends all recently decided to buy into near downtown OKC, ironically, because of what he called the attitude there. That is a 180 degree shift of the OKC attitude from when I was his age.


Then there is the elitism that has created a deep and hardening mistrust of our leadership. Your remarks are not unlike many on this forum and in this community's leadership that are representative of that schism between self-employed, well employed, well educated, pseudo-sophisticates that are sure "They" know what is happening to Tulsa and the 85% of the city that are actually making the city work. The spiritual magazines of the elites here in Tulsa, Tulsa People & OKmag, don't print more than 30K copies between them. Less than probably 10K are ever seen outside of doctors offices and restaurants who advertise in them. Out of 900,000+ population. However, the character and attitude of the city is closer to the World, Urban Tulsa and the Beacon.

I love this forum but sometimes it is dismissive and seemingly oblivious to the very community we live in. Tulsa is the home of fundamentalism, conservatism, libertarianism, chauvinism, racism and gilded age capitalism. Those attitudes matter in how we are viewed by others and why we lag "behind the curve since 1898" as one poster used to note. Do you know how rare and treasured it is to occasionally find an open, progressive, non fundamentalist, non Bush apologist, self thinking, resident of this town and find yourself talking to a complete stranger for an hour because you're both so excited to find out there are "others" among us?!  

And before you guys start, don't question my love of the city. We're also the home of beautiful landscapes, cutting edge music, strong moral values and a fair amount of diversity. Doesn't surprise me that we are home to large quantities of same sex residents. I am a native and could have left at any time during the last 40 years but I know we can be better and want to be here when it happens. Telling the truth about our nature is my way of helping that happen.

[HazMatCFO]

So Q1 08 didn't have negative growth as many naysayers predicted. So the USA is not in a recession as some hoped for and now I predict the same people will predict the tax rebates will overheat the economy.

Just wait.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's the attitude, Artist.....not the developments.

We need more attitude adjustment here to attract the pros.

In good part, whats actually going on is that Tulsa is transitioning from being, in essence, a large suburb that happened to have some really large buildings lol, into a city. A real city is able to offer lots of job options, a wide variety of living and lifestyle options, lots of higher educational options, lots of entertainment and cultural options, etc.

Its the attitude, period.

I extracted that mental ejaculation above from your pontificating because its more dissociative than the rest of your rambling. (As you can tell it irritates me when people make assessments of what's really happening in Tulsa.) Take no personal enmity from my post please.

One has to be very careful what you say and to who you say it in this (un)real city if you are not republican, conservative and fundamentally religious. That attitude makes us toxic. It is pretty much the mirror image of the YP urbans you think we are attracting. Office talk is fine as long as it fits the norms of Tulsa politics and religion. Otherwise you may find yourself on the dead track or out the door. Those who don't know that haven't been paying attention and these yp's do pay attention. My son is one of them. He and his friends all recently decided to buy into near downtown OKC, ironically, because of what he called the attitude there. That is a 180 degree shift of the OKC attitude from when I was his age.


Then there is the elitism that has created a deep and hardening mistrust of our leadership. Your remarks are not unlike many on this forum and in this community's leadership that are representative of that schism between self-employed, well employed, well educated, pseudo-sophisticates that are sure "They" know what is happening to Tulsa and the 85% of the city that are actually making the city work. The spiritual magazines of the elites here in Tulsa, Tulsa People & OKmag, don't print more than 30K copies between them. Less than probably 10K are ever seen outside of doctors offices and restaurants who advertise in them. Out of 900,000+ population. However, the character and attitude of the city is closer to the World, Urban Tulsa and the Beacon.

I love this forum but sometimes it is dismissive and seemingly oblivious to the very community we live in. Tulsa is the home of fundamentalism, conservatism, libertarianism, chauvinism, racism and gilded age capitalism. Those attitudes matter in how we are viewed by others and why we lag "behind the curve since 1898" as one poster used to note. Do you know how rare and treasured it is to occasionally find an open, progressive, non fundamentalist, non Bush apologist, self thinking, resident of this town and find yourself talking to a complete stranger for an hour because you're both so excited to find out there are "others" among us?!  

And before you guys start, don't question my love of the city. We're also the home of beautiful landscapes, cutting edge music, strong moral values and a fair amount of diversity. Doesn't surprise me that we are home to large quantities of same sex residents. I am a native and could have left at any time during the last 40 years but I know we can be better and want to be here when it happens. Telling the truth about our nature is my way of helping that happen.

Perhaps your right, perhaps I am just seeing things through my limited lense. All I can say is this... The kind of things I like and people I like to hang around, talk with, work with, the kind of areas I like, developments I like, etc. are more abundant now than ever and the trend is positive "at least in my perspective lol".  Does this mean an attitude change for the city as a whole?  No. But there is definitely a core of things that I like which is getting larger and better.

[FOTD]

Millions of Americans in Chronic Pain

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1737255,00.html?cnn=yes

"Nursing a migraine today? New research shows you're not alone. More than a quarter of Americans suffer daily pain, a condition that costs the U.S. about $60 billion a year in lost productivity. And how often you're in pain depends largely on the size of your paycheck.
Americans in households making less than $30,000 a year spend nearly 20% of their lives in moderate to severe pain, compared with less than 8% of people in households earning above $100,000, according to a landmark study on how Americans experience in pain. The findings, published Thursday in the British journal the Lancet, also found that participants who hadn't finished high school reported feeling twice the amount of pain as college graduates. "To a significant extent, pain does separate the classes," says Princeton economist Alan Krueger, who authored the study along with Dr. Arthur Stone, a psychiatry professor at Stony Brook University.

Krueger notes that the type of pain people reported typically fell on either side of the rich-poor divide. "Those with higher incomes welcome pain almost by choice, usually through exercise," he says. "At lower incomes, pain comes as the result of work." Indeed, Krueger and Stone found that blue-collar workers felt more pain, from physical labor or repetitive motion, while on the job than off, which at least offers hope that the problem can be mitigated. This finding "emphasizes the need for pain preventing measures [in the workplace] such as better ergonomics," wrote Juha H.O. Turunen, a professor of social pharmacy at Finland's University of Kuopio, in an accompanying commentary to the report.

People with chronic pain also worked less, the new study found, costing U.S. businesses as much as $60 billion annually. These conclusions are in line with previous studies on productivity lost to common pain conditions, including a 2003 report finding that nearly 15% of the U.S. workforce's output was diminished by ailments such as headaches and arthritis. What's new in Kruger and Stone's study, however, is the level of detail with which the researchers were able to chronicle the lives of Americans in pain. With the help of the polling firm Gallup, they asked nearly 4,000 survey participants to diarize their daily activities over a 24-hour period. From these personal accounts, the researchers saw the impact pain had on people's emotional states. Though participants said interacting with a spouse or friend lowered their pain, those suffering chronic pain tended to socialize much less. They also spent a lot more time watching television about 25% of their day compared with 16% for the average person.

Pain also appeared to be a major driver of healthcare costs. Krueger and Stone found that Americans spent about $2.6 billion in over-the-counter pain medications and another nearly $14 billion on outpatient analgesics in 2004, the most recent data available. But in these numbers, too, there may be a distinction between the haves and the have-nots. A 2005 study in Michigan showed that minorities and the poor have less access to such drugs than wealthier Americans because local pharmacies don't stock enough pain medications such as oxycodone or morphine. "Those [pharmacies] in white ZIP codes were more than 13 times more likely to have sufficient supplies," says lead researcher Dr. Carmen Green, an anesthesiology professor at the University of Michigan. "I have patients who have to drive 30 miles or more just to get their pain medications."

One characteristic that pain doesn't seem to distinguish is gender: according to Krueger and Stone's study, men and women were nearly equally likely to find themselves in pain. Another is age. People reported more aches and pains as they got older, though surprisingly that pain tended to plateau from ages 45 to 75. "Maybe people reach a point in their career where they move up the ladder into a desk job," Krueger says. "Or maybe they've just learned how to cope with the pain."

Sorry to be such a pain, but I thought I'd point out that as the lower middle class expands we all will pay more one way or another.

The other day I went by a lab and upon up front payment of my bill was able to receive a %50 decrease in cost due to the avoidance of administrative handling of my bill. I said, "that's great for me, but what about those that can least afford health care? Their costs are twice that of the citizens in America making over $100,000." A sad situation....

"One way or another, this darkness got to give"
Garcia/Hunter

[RecycleMichael]

"I once heard two ladies going on and on about the pains of childbirth and how men don't seem to know what real pain is. I asked if either of them ever got themselves caught in a zipper."

Emo Phillips

[FOTD]

Ouch!

Is that what happened to cause Bill Clinton's noticable marking?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Ouch!

Is that what happened to cause Bill Clinton's noticable marking?

No, I think that was someone's braces.

[FOTD]

Is it correct to say most of our country is now in recession? Not here. But should the oil and gas traders get hammered, watch out below.

If reserves are so precious and demand so high why has there not been a single major oil company or oil services company merger or acquisition?

Surely it's cheaper to buy the reserves than find them? The reason that has not happened is the oil execs themselves do not believe what is happening is demand driven. They see the speculation.

http://biz.yahoo.com/hftn/080606/060608_tully_oil_bust_fortune.html?.v=3

[FOTD]

http://www.reuters.com/article/usMktRpt/idUSN06146720080606

Dow falls 394.64 points, largest 1-day drop this year (wow) "on renewed fears that the U.S. economy is threatened by 1970s-style stagflation after government data showed the jobless rate jumped the most in 22 years in May and the price of oil surged to a record above $139 a barrel."

Just now, we are in phase one of this "war time for oil" economy.....

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

http://www.reuters.com/article/usMktRpt/idUSN06146720080606

Dow falls 394.64 points, largest 1-day drop this year (wow) "on renewed fears that the U.S. economy is threatened by 1970s-style stagflation after government data showed the jobless rate jumped the most in 22 years in May and the price of oil surged to a record above $139 a barrel."

Just now, we are in phase one of this "war time for oil" economy.....

Ah!  A good day for Fotard!   Giddy he must be!
Happiness a warm bong is!

Only 2 negative quarters to your beloved recession.

[FOTD]

Not giddy at all. "If oil prices stay this high, you're going to have to re-examine your estimates for G.D.P., inflation and consumers' ability to spend outside of nondiscretionary items," Ms. Krosby said. "This has all of the elements of an investor's worst-case scenario."http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/business/07stox.html?_r=1&oref=slogin


Just pointing out where you Busheviks have put America. Keep thinking the price of oil is high because of the falling dollar. It's due to all the option players....those that opted in for war and those that have the power and supplies to manipulate the market on a world level. Chalk it up to 8 years of no energy policy and no attempt at reprioritizing our carbon based system http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080606/pl_nm/climate_usa_dc_1. The economy sucks. If you haven't noticed, just look at the airlines. Look at what food costs. Believe your lying government statistics. This must be someone else's fault Bill with a spoon.....

Mission accomplished...Now take your personal attack and go live in Egypt on a river of d nile.