It's The Economy, STUPID!.....

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Top FOUR stories on msnbc.com at 12:39 PM, today:
Retail sales drop
Wholesale prices drop
Beleageured Lehman races to find buyer
Foreclosure filings increase

John McCain talking to reporters on Dec. 18, 2007: "The issue of economics is something that I've really never understood as well as I should."


Timber!!!!!!! (here comes Palin(pale and lyin) with her axe.

First headline- bad
Second headline- good
Third headline- good
Fourth headline- bad

Net= wash

Moving on....

[]As long as:
 a. they are all equal in importance (doubtful)
 b. Lehman finds a buyer
 c. You don't own stock in wholesale companies

I heard that all the ships carrying goods to other countries from America are full. No excess capacity there. That's got to be good for some folks... at least the shipping companies.

"wholesale companies"? The release this morning on wholesale prices is a measure of inflation... a drop in this number is very good.

No surprise on the foreclosure number and would expect to see even more.

Lehman will find a buyer one way or the other. Currently the Treasury and Fed are reticent about stepping in to help which I think is a positive.

The retail sales number drop is bad but was driven buy lower gasoline prices... so not as bad as first blush.

My overall point was that much of what FOTD posts and blames on the Busheviks is rubbish... if he offered any semblance of understanding just what it is he rants about I might be more understanding.

On another note, sorry to blow the thread up by responding to a string of multiple FOTD only posts....

Okay, Banker Bob. No reason to jump on me. Wholesale companies, you know those who buy from manufacturers and warehouse goods then distribute them. Wholesale distributors. If wholesale prices are dropping its good for me but they may be squeezed in the middle. Holding stock that is slow moving or unable to cover their cost instead of fast moving high margin items.

I didn't know where the numbers came from. Thanks for the analysis of them.

[bokworker]

Sorry WB... didn't mean to sound snarky...

[FOTD]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080914/bs_nm/markets_stocks_dc_1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080914/bs_nm/lehman_dc_70 Goldman Sachs next?


Greenspan Says Crisis May Be `Once in Century' Event (Update1)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amVkrOCQNBQs&refer=home

McCain economic adviser: quit complaining, the economy is great http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/mccain-economic-adviser-quit.html

Our Federal Reserve sucks. American credit turns to crap under the repiglicans. Hold on to your seats. Transformation occuring in our market.
Depression starts on Black Monday? Maybe Tuesday because the world markets are half closed for holidays on Monday.

Paulson, Bernake and Bushco have caused the worst economic crisis in history. And most of you want McSame policies? Palin is an idiot and it matters because McCain is SO old. You get 15% unemployment if you vote McCain/Paline .. I'm 100% sure.

No fear from the devil, but empathy for the tragedies coming.

Turn on CNBC....where is Krudlow. This is amazing.

Vote for the dumb sick white guy over the smart black guy.

McCain economic adviser: quit complaining, the economy is great http://www.americablog.com/2008/09/mccain-economic-adviser-quit.html

Our Federal Reserve sucks. American credit turns to crap under the repiglicans. Hold on to your seats. Transformation occuring in our market.
Depression starts on Black Monday? Maybe Tuesday because the world markets are half closed for holidays on Monday.

Paulson, Bernake and Bushco have caused the worst economic crisis in history. And most of you want McSame policies? Palin is an idiot and it matters because McCain is SO old. You get 15% unemployment if you vote McCain/Paline .. I'm 100% sure.

No fear from the devil, but empathy for the tragedies coming.

Turn on CNBC....where is Krudlow. This is amazing.

Vote for the dumb sick white guy over the smart black guy.

[FOTD]

McCain's Economist: We Need Tax Increases
By: Cernig on Saturday, September 13th, 2008 at 7:00 PM -

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/13/mccains-economist-we-need-tax-rises/

"Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former Director of the Congressional Budget Office and current chief McCain economic advisor tells Fortune columnist Matt Miller in a forthcoming book, The Tyranny of Dead Ideas, that the next President is simply going to have to raise taxes." [:O]

But vote for the souless old white guy over the smart black guy.

[FOTD]

FOTD has a sense that much more is wrong in the financial world than Paulson and Bernanke are admitting to and that we are in grave danger here.

Top Economist: Americans Should Worry About Bank Deposits if Congress Doesn't Act
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/56994/Top-Economist-Americans-Should-Worry-About-Bank-Deposits-if-Congress-Doesn%27t-Act?tickers=LEH,MER,BAC,AIG,WM,

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/41423/Roubini-More-Than-1-Trillion-Needed-to-Solve-Housing-Crisis?tickers=FNM,FRE,XLF,WM,WB,WFC,BAC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6reQLzgywzk

[Cats Cats Cats]

At least inflation won't be up because nobody will have any money.  Win!

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by cmatt1

At least inflation won't be up because nobody will have any money.  Win!

Nope. The neo-con dopes that got us here never realized the US will be forced to print more money and tighten monetary and fiscal policies which in turn will lead to inflation as government runs an enormous deficit. Just a much different kind of inflation than the 70's. Then, it was cost push. This time, it will be the worst kind of inflation, demand pull.

What goes around comes around. [:O]

[Crash Daily]

The housing slump is the biggest cause of these world wide repercussions. Both Parties are to blame for setting up ridiculously loose regulations, in order to get people who can't afford homes, in to homes.

It set up speculation, artificial investment property booms and adjustable rate loans to people that can't afford the real payments. It was a disaster waiting to happen and both Parties are to blame. It was a house of cards.

I guarantee, however, it wasn't the logical, Conservative portion of the Republican Party that helped set up this disaster. It was the left leaning centrist idiots that believe much like the Democrats. I'll lump Bush in to that group with his "Compassionate Conservatism" crap.

This is what compassion over logic gets us. But by their way of thinking and pretty much ALL Dims, to do any less would be uncaring, mean spirited and heartless..., consequences be damned. Dims like to yell and scream about Bush, but when it comes to Socialism, he's right in their supporting Dim housing bills an ridiculous education schemes. He's with you in those issues and you can have 'em.

All the other factors, such as over spending on the budget, the weakening dollar, high fuel prices and living expenses. All those things were like a strong breeze. It easily blew this house of cards over.

Now Dims are screaming NEOCON, NEOCON!! As if their own Party hasn't been in control of the House and Senate for the past 2 years and didn't vote for the measures that got us here, prior to that. There's plenty of blame to spread around, but us mean spirited, heartless Conservatives never would have created a mess like this. We wouldn't have given the poor a chance to get loans on things they couldn't afford. I know.., just horrible, isn't it. To bad we aren't in control of our own Party and haven't been, for several years before Clinton left office. This nation would be a much better place.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

How many are living on the edge?

"NEW YORK, Dec 17 (Reuters) - U.S. stocks ended sharply lower on Monday on worries the housing slump was dragging on the economy at the same time that inflation was posing a growing menace.

Based on the latest available data, the Dow Jones industrial average .DJI fell 172.65 points, or 1.29 percent, to end unofficialy at 13,167.20. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index .SPX was down 22.03 points, or 1.50 percent, to finish unofficially at 1,445.92. The Nasdaq Composite Index .IXIC was down 61.28 points, or 2.32 percent, to close unofficially at 2,574.46. (Reporting by Caroline Valetkevitch; Editing by Jan Paschal) "

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN1764225020071217


Outside of Oklahoma, the American economy is stagnating with the likelihood of a "session" of some nature over the next couple of years. Looks like the neo con economic theory of reinflating the economy through huge expenditures in the MIC will not work out to be quite what they anticipated.

And then there's the problem these neo cons have created by handing the states the weight of
deficits...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071218/ap_on_re_us/state_finances;_ylt=An5P90RizzFViw9QwAAPH8Cs0NUE

"We're at the early stages of some pretty serious problems and whether or not those get worse depends on what happens with the national economy," said Corina Eckl, NCSL's fiscal program director."

Time to buy snap on tools?

Wall Street crisis is culmination of 28 years of deregulation

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/52559.html

Rah Rah Reagan Revolution! Didn't work.
Bushco (same party) spoiled his Gawdly image.


Alan Greenspan calls the McCain Economic Plan a Disaster for the Country

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Alan-Greenspan-calls-the-M-by-E-Nelson-080916-370.html

Gee, I wish some person with believable credentials (unlike Greenspan) would make the same "McCain Economic Plan a Disaster for the Country" statement for the world to see. Don't we have some progressive Nobel Peace Prize-winning economists who could do the deed?

You know it's gonna get stranger. Somethings we just know. So, let's elect Obama and risk change for the better. We stay on this same McBush train and the good ole USA will melt along with the icecaps.

"Global weirdness" Hunter Thompson

[FOTD]

FOTD notices the lack of interest and discussion about the economy. So, he will continue his reminder that change is good.....especially when it means removing the repiglican failed movement.

http://www.prudentbear.com/index.php/commentary/featuredcommentary?art_id=9875


Voodoo Banking

"As banks begin to adjust their business models (selling assets and reducing staff), significant restructuring costs will affect earnings in the short run. The benefits of the restructuring will yield benefits but they will take time to emerge.  "

How will the "earnings power" get them out of this jam. It will not. As their funding needs become more urgent next yr and they are forced to recognize more losses they will have to raise more capital.

The fed knows how bad it is and no matter how much they lie and attempt to socialize the losses it will not matter...and our fed govt talks about how our crisis is nothing compared to the japenese disaster where the banks never took losses on all the bad loans. Really? Banks are headed for a japenese-like zombie period of 10 yrs of bad news and no growth.

[FOTD]

Barack Obama on Monday blamed lobbyists, special interests and "an ethic of irresponsibility" in Washington for the financial crisis. "We cannot give a blank check to Washington with no oversight and accountability, when no oversight and accountability is what got us into this mess in the first place," Obama said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/22/campaign.wrap/index.html


"Obama said he would make the government "open and transparent" and put any bill that ends up on his desk online for five days before he signs it.

Secondly, Obama said he would "eliminate the waste and the fraud and abuse in our government." He pointed to fixing the health care system and ending the war in Iraq as ways to cut costs.

Obama also said that he and his running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, would crack down on excessive spending from both parties and close loopholes for big corporations.

Obama said he would pursue "updated, common-sense regulations" in the financial market. "

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Barack Obama on Monday blamed lobbyists, special interests and "an ethic of irresponsibility" in Washington for the financial crisis. "We cannot give a blank check to Washington with no oversight and accountability, when no oversight and accountability is what got us into this mess in the first place," Obama said.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/22/campaign.wrap/index.html


"Obama said he would make the government "open and transparent" and put any bill that ends up on his desk online for five days before he signs it.

Secondly, Obama said he would "eliminate the waste and the fraud and abuse in our government." He pointed to fixing the health care system and ending the war in Iraq as ways to cut costs.

Obama also said that he and his running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, would crack down on excessive spending from both parties and close loopholes for big corporations.

Obama said he would pursue "updated, common-sense regulations" in the financial market. "

I most definitely should vote for Obama.

He has mastered all the latest campaign cliches.

He is brilliant.

[FOTD]

This is like hiring a bank robber as a security guard and only letting him have the keys to the vault: Reuters reports today that "The incoming Treasury secretary, Henry M. Paulson Jr., was awarded an $18.7 million cash bonus for half a year of work as the chief executive of the Goldman Sachs Group." The massive bonus was, not surprisingly, approved by Goldman Sachs at the very same time Paulson was both CEO and Treasury Secretary designate.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/the-paulson-payoff-at-the_b_24379.html




"....All that I am asking for is ten gold dollars
And I could pay you back with one good hand
You can look around at the wide world over
But you'll never find another honest man

Last fair deal in the country, sweet Susie
Last fair deal in the town
Put your gold money where your love is baby
Before you let my deal go down..."(Garcia/Hunter)

[FOTD]

A short term fix will create long term agony.

A long term fix will create a short term agony.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/bailout-is-not-limited-to-700-billion.html

As Chris Martenson writes:

"This means that $700 billion is NOT the cost of this dangerous legislation, it is only the amount that can be outstanding at any one time. After, say, $100 billion of bad mortgages are disposed of, another $100 billion can be bought. In short, these four little words assure that there is NO LIMIT to the potential size of this bailout. This means that $700 billion is a rolling amount, not a ceiling.

So what happens when you have vague language and an unlimited budget? Fraud and self-dealing. Mark my words, this is the largest looting operation ever in the history of the US, and it's all spelled out right in this delightfully brief document that is about to be rammed through a scared Congress and made into law. "

It is SCANDALOUS when the Feds could not pay for healthcare for children, or anyone for that matter than is not already insured, could not help Katrina victims, allowed the derivatives market (or those betting on their own stocks as to whether they would go up or down) would now allow a bailout on gambling. We give the gamblers back the money they gambled with.

[FOTD]

Paulson Bailout Plan a Historic Swindle By William Greider

September 19, 2008

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081006/greider

"Financial-market wise guys, who had been seized with fear, are suddenly drunk with hope. They are rallying explosively because they think they have successfully stampeded Washington into accepting the Wall Street Journal solution to the crisis:dump it all on the taxpayers . That is the meaning of the massive bailout Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has shopped around Congress. It would relieve the major banks and investment firms of their mountainous rotten assets and make the public swallow their losses--many hundreds of billions, maybe much more. What's not to like if you are a financial titan threatened with extinction?

If Wall Street gets away with this, it will represent an historic swindle of the American public--all sugar for the villains, lasting pain and damage for the victims. My advice to Washington politicians: Stop, take a deep breath and examine what you are being told to do by so-called "responsible opinion." If this deal succeeds, I predict it will become a transforming event in American politics--exposing the deep deformities in our democracy and launching a tidal wave of righteous anger and popular rebellion. As I have been saying for several months, this crisis has the potential to bring down one or both political parties, take your choice.

Christopher Whalen of Institutional Risk Analytics, a brave conservative critic, put it plainly: "The joyous reception from Congressional Democrats to Paulson's latest massive bailout proposal smells an awful lot like yet another corporatist lovefest between Washington's one-party government and the Sell Side investment banks."

A kindred critic, Josh Rosner of Graham Fisher in New York, defined the sponsors of this stampede to action: "Let us be clear, it is not citizen groups, private investors, equity investors or institutional investors broadly who are calling for this government purchase fund. It is almost exclusively being lobbied for by precisely those institutions that believed they were 'smarter than the rest of us,' institutions who need to get those assets off their balance sheet at an inflated value lest they be at risk of large losses or worse."

Let me be clear. The scandal is not that government is acting. The scandal is that government is not acting forcefully enough--using its ultimate emergency powers to take full control of the financial system and impose order on banks, firms and markets. Stop the music, so to speak, instead of allowing individual financiers and traders to take opportunistic moves to save themselves at the expense of the system. The step-by-step rescues that the Federal Reserve and Treasury have executed to date have failed utterly to reverse the flight of investors and banks worldwide from lending or buying in doubtful times. There is no obvious reason to assume this bailout proposal will change their minds, though it will certainly feel good to the financial houses that get to dump their bad paper on the government.

A serious intervention in which Washington takes charge would, first, require a new central authority to supervise the financial institutions and compel them to support the government's actions to stabilize the system. Government can apply killer leverage to the financial players: accept our objectives and follow our instructions or you are left on your own--cut off from government lending spigots and ineligible for any direct assistance. If they decline to cooperate, the money guys are stuck with their own mess. If they resist the government's orders to keep lending to the real economy of producers and consumers, banks and brokers will be effectively isolated, therefore doomed.

Only with these conditions, and some others, should the federal government be willing to take ownership--temporarily--of the rotten financial assets that are dragging down funds, banks and brokerages. Paulson and the Federal Reserve are trying to replay the bailout approach used in the 1980s for the savings and loan crisis, but this situation is utterly different. The failed S&Ls held real assets--property, houses, shopping centers--that could be readily resold by the Resolution Trust Corporation at bargain prices. This crisis involves ethereal financial instruments of unknowable value--not just the notorious mortgage securities but various derivative contracts and other esoteric deals that may be virtually worthless.

Despite what the pols in Washington think, the RTC bailout was also a Wall Street scandal. Many of the financial firms that had financed the S&L industry's reckless lending got to buy back the same properties for pennies from the RTC--profiting on the upside, then again on the downside. Guess who picked up the tab? I suspect Wall Street is envisioning a similar bonanza--the chance to harvest new profit from their own fraud and criminal irresponsibility.

If government acts responsibly, it will impose some other conditions on any broad rescue for the bankers. First, take due bills from any financial firms that get to hand off their spoiled assets, that is, a hard contract that repays government from any future profits once the crisis is over. Second, when the politicians get around to reforming financial regulations and dismantling the gimmicks and "too big to fail" institutions, Wall Street firms must be prohibited from exercising their usual manipulations of the political system. Call off their lobbyists, bar them from the bribery disguised as campaign contributions. Any contact or conversations between the assisted bankers and financial houses with government agencies or elected politicians must be promptly reported to the public, just as regulated industries are required to do when they call on government regulars.

More important, if the taxpayers are compelled to refinance the villains in this drama, then Americans at large are entitled to equivalent treatment in their crisis. That means the suspension of home foreclosures and personal bankruptcies for debt-soaked families during the duration of this crisis. The debtors will not escape injury and loss--their situation is too dire--but they deserve equal protection from government, the chance to work out things gradually over some years on reasonable terms.

The government, meanwhile, may have to create another emergency agency, something like the New Deal, that lends directly to the real economy--businesses, solvent banks, buyers and sellers in consumer markets. We don't know how much damage has been done to economic growth or how long the cold spell will last, but I don't trust the bankers in the meantime to provide investment capital and credit. If necessary, Washington has to fill that role, too.

Finally, the crisis is global, obviously, and requires concerted global action. Robert A. Johnson, a veteran of global finance now working with the Campaign for America's Future, suggests that our global trading partners may recognize the need for self-interested cooperation and can negotiate temporary--maybe permanent--reforms to balance the trading system and keep it functioning, while leading nations work to put the global financial system back in business.

The agenda is staggering. The United States is ill equipped to deal with it smartly, not to mention wisely. We have a brain-dead lame duck in the White House. The two presidential candidates are trapped by events, trying to say something relevant without getting blamed for the disaster. The people should make themselves heard in Washington, even if only to share their outrage.
"