BOK Center... Almost here.....

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I agree Floyd, but the administration did not back the developer that offered a baseball stadium in favor of a developer that offered a Wal*Mart. Crud! pancakes?!

I know GDP had/has their problems but surely this would have turned out better if the city clearly stated that hotels/mixed use/stadium in downtown was something we want(ed). I can't help but consider that bold straight forward support from the administration could have stopped the bidding war for the Nordam property and given GDP time to acquire it. The way things went down, it feels like the administration might have taken sides to push GDP out of the way.

I don't know this of course, but I wish I could have been a fly on the Himlefarb/Maylor wall.

I agree 100% with you.  I'm holding on to hope by a very thin thread: Chuck Lamson (owner of Drillers) has refused to commit to the Jenks location, and told the World's Dave Sittler just before Christmas to expect "an interesting January."  Whatever plan comes out in the next 30 days (or 90--this is Tulsa, after all) is downtown's last chance to add that ballpark bookend.

As for K&K's plans for the Mayo Village--those are still on track, and their holding company has actually become a very aggressive leasing agent for downtown.  All their (remaining) buildings are fully occupied.  At this point, it appears there is some tipping point holding things back.  It's probably completion of the residential units around Main Mall.  Baby steps, but like Artist said, these things take time.

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

Not sure I've seen the solid steps. The arena, streets, centenial and route 66 walks, quiet zone, downtown housing and park are all pre this adminitration. City Hall is new, but I don't see developers lining up to build there.

We have the same empty parcels of city owned land all over downtown with no takers. We have a Mayor's economic development office that is at odds with our (non)development authority neither with a clear vision for the future. DTU produced a master plan, but has supported tear down after tear down. Kanbar's first move was to create more parking right on our Main St after we spent millions to change it again in hopes of attracting new business there.

Trying not to get bitter, but I'd love to see someone in the Mayor's office (the mayor) mend these rifts and regain momentum. With the investment we have in downtown it's certainly time to at least get in front of the cameras and speak about what is happening now and what the plan is for the future.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I agree Floyd, but the administration did not back the developer that offered a baseball stadium in favor of a developer that offered a Wal*Mart. Crud! pancakes?!

I know GDP had/has their problems but surely this would have turned out better if the city clearly stated that hotels/mixed use/stadium in downtown was something we want(ed). I can't help but consider that bold straight forward support from the administration could have stopped the bidding war for the Nordam property and given GDP time to acquire it. The way things went down, it feels like the administration might have taken sides to push GDP out of the way.

I don't know this of course, but I wish I could have been a fly on the Himlefarb/Maylor wall.

I agree 100% with you.  I'm holding on to hope by a very thin thread: Chuck Lamson (owner of Drillers) has refused to commit to the Jenks location, and told the World's Dave Sittler just before Christmas to expect "an interesting January."  Whatever plan comes out in the next 30 days (or 90--this is Tulsa, after all) is downtown's last chance to add that ballpark bookend.

As for K&K's plans for the Mayo Village--those are still on track, and their holding company has actually become a very aggressive leasing agent for downtown.  All their (remaining) buildings are fully occupied.  At this point, it appears there is some tipping point holding things back.  It's probably completion of the residential units around Main Mall.  Baby steps, but like Artist said, these things take time.

What "(remaining) buildings" of Kanbar's are "fully occupied?"  

First Place Tower is not fully occupied, neither in ground floor retail nor in office space.

And I don't think Mayo Place was Kanbar's plan at all.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I agree Floyd, but the administration did not back the developer that offered a baseball stadium in favor of a developer that offered a Wal*Mart. Crud! pancakes?!

I know GDP had/has their problems but surely this would have turned out better if the city clearly stated that hotels/mixed use/stadium in downtown was something we want(ed). I can't help but consider that bold straight forward support from the administration could have stopped the bidding war for the Nordam property and given GDP time to acquire it. The way things went down, it feels like the administration might have taken sides to push GDP out of the way.

I don't know this of course, but I wish I could have been a fly on the Himlefarb/Maylor wall.

I agree 100% with you.  I'm holding on to hope by a very thin thread: Chuck Lamson (owner of Drillers) has refused to commit to the Jenks location, and told the World's Dave Sittler just before Christmas to expect "an interesting January."  Whatever plan comes out in the next 30 days (or 90--this is Tulsa, after all) is downtown's last chance to add that ballpark bookend.

As for K&K's plans for the Mayo Village--those are still on track, and their holding company has actually become a very aggressive leasing agent for downtown.  All their (remaining) buildings are fully occupied.  At this point, it appears there is some tipping point holding things back.  It's probably completion of the residential units around Main Mall.  Baby steps, but like Artist said, these things take time.

What "(remaining) buildings" of Kanbar's are "fully occupied?"  

First Place Tower is not fully occupied, neither in ground floor retail nor in office space.

And I don't think Mayo Place was Kanbar's plan at all.

I talked to someone associated with the leasing agent's office who, when pressed about where the promised street life was, told me that the properties were fully leased and street life would come as residential expanded.  Perhaps I misconstrued this person's words, or they exaggerated.

And as far as Mayo Place goes, it was always to include Kanbar's holdings.  I got the impression that the duo collaborated on the (apparently left-behind) plan.  This TMCC release (from 18 months ago) gave me that impression, as well as this Tulsa World article.

[carltonplace]

Maybe they meant that all of the "usable office space" was fully leased. In the press conferences there was to be a confluence of office, living and retail and I don't think the living and retail spaces are ready to lease yet.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

Maybe they meant that all of the "usable office space" was fully leased. In the press conferences there was to be a confluence of office, living and retail and I don't think the living and retail spaces are ready to lease yet.

Whatever they may have said or meant to say, the truth is that all of the leaseable office space is  not fully leased, nor is all the retail space, including some that is very much ready to be leased.  Furthermore, AFAIK, there are no conversions of any Kanbar properties into living space currently underway or announced.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

As for K&K's plans for the Mayo Village--those are still on track, and their holding company has actually become a very aggressive leasing agent for downtown.  All their (remaining) buildings are fully occupied.  At this point, it appears there is some tipping point holding things back.  It's probably completion of the residential units around Main Mall.  Baby steps, but like Artist said, these things take time.

What "(remaining) buildings" of Kanbar's are "fully occupied?"  

First Place Tower is not fully occupied, neither in ground floor retail nor in office space.

And I don't think Mayo Place was Kanbar's plan at all.
[/quote]

I talked to someone associated with the leasing agent's office who, when pressed about where the promised street life was, told me that the properties were fully leased and street life would come as residential expanded.  Perhaps I misconstrued this person's words, or they exaggerated.

And as far as Mayo Place goes, it was always to include Kanbar's holdings.  I got the impression that the duo collaborated on the (apparently left-behind) plan.  This TMCC release (from 18 months ago) gave me that impression, as well as this Tulsa World article.
[/quote]

What gives you the idea the "Mayo Place" plans are still on track?  Nothing has been heard about it for a very long time.

And speaking of expanded residential, does anyone know what is going on with any of that?  The city awarded funds to 4 projects a very long time ago and so far only one has even started any construction.  Kanbar pulled his off the list; The 420 Mayo appears to have stalled, or whatever...   The Mayo Hotel, last we heard, is supposed to start work this month (but of course earlier start dates have come and gone with no activity; I'm not holding my breath on this one either.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital
What gives you the idea the "Mayo Place" plans are still on track?  Nothing has been heard about it for a very long time.

As I said, simply the conversation I had with the person associated with the leasing office.  That person insisted that things were still moving along, albeit more slowly given the split between the two.  Could have been hot air; I don't know.  But Topeca Coffee just opened.

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital
And speaking of expanded residential, does anyone know what is going on with any of that?  The city awarded funds to 4 projects a very long time ago and so far only one has even started any construction.  Kanbar pulled his off the list; The 420 Mayo appears to have stalled, or whatever...   The Mayo Hotel, last we heard, is supposed to start work this month (but of course earlier start dates have come and gone with no activity; I'm not holding my breath on this one either.

Don't know, except that the same person suggested I consider purchasing a Mayo condo.  I have a feeling that they're waiting on a pre-purchase number--industry standard seems like 40%-50% of units presold before construction begins.  If that's the case, though, their marketing could use some help.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital
And speaking of expanded residential, does anyone know what is going on with any of that?  The city awarded funds to 4 projects a very long time ago and so far only one has even started any construction.  Kanbar pulled his off the list; The 420 Mayo appears to have stalled, or whatever...   The Mayo Hotel, last we heard, is supposed to start work this month (but of course earlier start dates have come and gone with no activity; I'm not holding my breath on this one either.

Don't know, except that the same person suggested I consider purchasing a Mayo condo.  I have a feeling that they're waiting on a pre-purchase number--industry standard seems like 40%-50% of units presold before construction begins.  If that's the case, though, their marketing could use some help.

That is exceedingly odd, because both the Mayo Hotel and 420 Mayo are to be rentals, not for-purchase condos.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital
And speaking of expanded residential, does anyone know what is going on with any of that?  The city awarded funds to 4 projects a very long time ago and so far only one has even started any construction.  Kanbar pulled his off the list; The 420 Mayo appears to have stalled, or whatever...   The Mayo Hotel, last we heard, is supposed to start work this month (but of course earlier start dates have come and gone with no activity; I'm not holding my breath on this one either.

Don't know, except that the same person suggested I consider purchasing a Mayo condo.  I have a feeling that they're waiting on a pre-purchase number--industry standard seems like 40%-50% of units presold before construction begins.  If that's the case, though, their marketing could use some help.

That is exceedingly odd, because both the Mayo Hotel and 420 Mayo are to be rentals, not for-purchase condos.

Then color me misinformed.  The only excuse I have is that the conversation took place over beers.  I thought I was being marketed a condo, which is why I suggested they might be waiting on a certain presold amount.  Otherwise, I have no idea what the delay could be.

[TheTed]

The Mayo Hotel website still says 'Occupancy Summer of 2007.'
Mayo Lofts

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.  

If I am reading you accurately, a reasonable expectation for a Hotel, to house the hoards of people coming to conventions and concerts would be roughly "4 to 5 years" after it opens....

What I would like to know is where are the bankable investments..?

You know.... The companies that pay people to find them an investment with a certain degree of promised return on their money.?

I think we all can see the effect of the "tax dollars" from V2025...

Everyone is aware that the City condemned the Towerview, has City Hall for sale, etc.

You say the " consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property"..
The problem I have with that is: The Arena was to have brought forward a surge of investment. We, as a City, are banking on increased Tax Revenue to make this whole thing fly.
Hell.... we have no suitors that I am aware of for Towerview.

Where is it at? Where is the economic momentum that all this tax money was to have created?

I doubt Tulsa can hold it's breath for 4 to 5 years if somethings do not begin to pop..

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by TheTed

The Mayo Hotel website still says 'Occupancy Summer of 2007.'
Mayo Lofts

I noticed that too.   LOL   Obviously hasn't been touched for quite some time.

[USRufnex]

Evidently, it's too much to ask for people to wait until the arena is built and fully functional for a few months/years before judging its success or failure... [B)]

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Evidently, it's too much to ask for people to wait until the arena is built and fully functional for a few months/years before judging its success or failure... [B)]

If we lived in a City that could afford such a luxury that might be the way to go.