BOK Center... Almost here.....

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

Maybe this will finally quell the arena critics:


Alltel Arena in Little Rock, whose MSA has about 250,000 LESS people than Tulsa's.  It opened in 1999, and recently hosted NCAA tourney games in which the lowest game attendance was 16,000 out of 18,000 total seats.

Wells Fargo Arena in Des Moines, whose MSA has about 350,000 less people than Tulsa's.  The arena opened in 2005 and seats 17,000.

Qwest Center in Omaha, whose MSA has about 75,000 less people than Tulsa's.  The Qwest Ctr.  opened in 2003 and seats 18,000.

Times Union Center in Albany, NY, whose MSA has about 50,000 less people than Tulsa's.  This arena opened in 1990 and seats 17,500.

The BOk Center is also being marketed by SMG, the world leader in venue management, marketing, and development.  You can find a complete list of SMG's clients here.

The only regret we should have about the BOk Center is that we didn't build it sooner.  We were passed up by multiple other cities, missed out on tons of revenue (opportunity cost), and allowed rising construction costs to bite us in the donkey.  However, the iconic design of the BOk Center partially makes up for it.  Pelli is a world-class architect, whose work is probably studied by every architecture student in the world.

And this building should be no different; the more that happens to it the more anxious I get to see the finished product.  It should be something that we as Tulsans are proud of.  Oh, except for those who would rather us be in the dark ages.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

The place will be nothing more than a burden on the city. After 3 years, the average attendence will be 7000 .... hard to attract the acts at that point....

Sorry to tell you the truth.

Sorry to tell you the truth, but you're completely ignorant.  Multiple other cities that are much smaller than Tulsa sell out arenas this size for many years.  Big name music acts and NCAA tourney games are not hard to sell out.  Do a little research before you post your personal conventional wisdom as factual information.  The success of the BOk Center is not a mere opinion of well-wishers, it is an extremely intelligent guess based on market research and a plethora of anecdotal examples.

You must be paranoid about the future potential of the BOK center to lash out with personal attacks. Must not feel secure yourself to be putting other's down like that.

I speak the truth on attendance. The BOK center will be a drain on city resources.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

The place will be nothing more than a burden on the city. After 3 years, the average attendence will be 7000 .... hard to attract the acts at that point....

Sorry to tell you the truth.

Sorry to tell you the truth, but you're completely ignorant.  Multiple other cities that are much smaller than Tulsa sell out arenas this size for many years.  Big name music acts and NCAA tourney games are not hard to sell out.  Do a little research before you post your personal conventional wisdom as factual information.  The success of the BOk Center is not a mere opinion of well-wishers, it is an extremely intelligent guess based on market research and a plethora of anecdotal examples.

You must be paranoid about the future potential of the BOK center to lash out with personal attacks. Must not feel secure yourself to be putting other's down like that.

I speak the truth on attendance. The BOK center will be a drain on city resources.

I top your prediction with this.... It will do well, then may slack off and be a drain, but then will do well again. It will do well in the long run as Tulsa and downtown pushes forward and begins to grow more rapidly in the future. As the vibrant growth that many of us are pushing for finally takes hold. Having this new arena in the interim will be one more asset helping to lead to that positive future.

So there...[]

[mrhaskellok]

Is it incorrect to assume that as gas prices go up, more companies and organizations will seek centrally located venues?

Will ticket prices go up dramatically for longer flights?  So will there be a push to shorten business trips for events?

Lol, probably a stretch but the idea just came to me and curious if anyone thinks oil prices will affect the BOK center's success.

[cannon_fodder]

FOTD, I appreciate your skepticism.

BUT, it is totally unfounded and nonconstructive.  Essentially, you are just shouting "yeah, but it will suck!" over and over.  Nothing to back up your claim and no cure for the pending doom.

What good is that?

[YoungTulsan]

We do need more people living in that specific area if the lesser events are to do decent ticket sales.  Don't include the jail in the population count nearby

I see it being a big draw for the big name acts, but as long a downtown is a ghost town, no one is going to casually drop by the Talons game in the middle of a fun filled afternoon.  They will probably have a smattering of Kia owners and thats about it.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

The place will be nothing more than a burden on the city. After 3 years, the average attendence will be 7000 .... hard to attract the acts at that point....

Sorry to tell you the truth.

Sorry to tell you the truth, but you're completely ignorant.  Multiple other cities that are much smaller than Tulsa sell out arenas this size for many years.  Big name music acts and NCAA tourney games are not hard to sell out.  Do a little research before you post your personal conventional wisdom as factual information.  The success of the BOk Center is not a mere opinion of well-wishers, it is an extremely intelligent guess based on market research and a plethora of anecdotal examples.

You must be paranoid about the future potential of the BOK center to lash out with personal attacks. Must not feel secure yourself to be putting other's down like that.

I speak the truth on attendance. The BOK center will be a drain on city resources.

Don't try that projection psychology on me.  And I did not intend to personally attack you.  Admittedly, I did attempt to elicit humor at your expense.  But, without any facts or stats to back up your claim, your argument is ignorant.  You can't just puke out your opinion and expect everyone to slurp it up.  I provided some stats and examples of other arenas that are successful.  Your stats don't even make sense.  Of course the Ford Center average attendance is not a sell-out.  The bulk of events that occur there are af2 football and minor league hockey- both of which would not sell 20,000 tickets anywhere.  But, big name concerts, such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Eric Clapton, do sell out the Ford Center.  Those acts will not play in a venue that is much smaller than the BOk Center.  I am willing to bet everything I own that those type of events will at least come very close to selling out the BOk Center for quite awhile.  There is also a huge intangible marketing benefit the arena provides for Downtown and the whole city.  Do you honestly think all of the recent or scheduled private investment in Downtown would have occurred without the arena project?  Granted, I agree with people that say the arena alone will not sustain Downtown, however it is an important and necessary asset.

I just can't fathom anyone thinking the arena is not financially viable.  Do you really think every other city in America just got it wrong?  Do you really think you're smarter than SMG?  Are you an executive for the Boston Consulting Group?  I don't get it.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FOTD, I appreciate your skepticism.

BUT, it is totally unfounded and nonconstructive.  Essentially, you are just shouting "yeah, but it will suck!" over and over.  Nothing to back up your claim and no cure for the pending doom.

What good is that?

Yes, I backed up my claim by sighting the decline in average attendence in OKC at the Ford Center after just a few years. Just the facts.

Go back to yer rah rah rah sis boom bah rag.

[FOTD]

Here is Neil Diamond's schedule.

If Tulsa starts averaging only 7000 per show, or even 10,000 per show, we will be hard pressed to attract big shows here over these other listed venues. Our demographics are no where near these other metropolitan cities.


July 2008
19 - St. Paul, MN - Xcel Energy Center
22 - Sioux City, IA - Tyson Events Center
24 - Omaha, NE - Qwest Center Omaha
26 - Chicago, IL - United Center
29 - Indianapolis, IN - Conseco Fieldhouse
31- Auburn Hills, MI - The Palace of Auburn Hills

August 2008
3 - Cleveland, OH - Quicken Loans Arena
5 - Washington, DC - Verizon Center
7 - Hartford, CT - XL Center
9 - Philadelphia, PA - Wachovia Center
12, 14 - New York, NY - Madison Square Garden
18 - Pittsburgh, PA - Mellon Arena
20 - Albany, NY - Times Union Center
23 - Boston, MA - Fenway Park
25 - Columbus, OH - Value City Arena at The Schottenstein Center
27 - Green Bay, WI - Resch Center
29 - St. Louis, MO - Scottrade Center

September 2008
14 - Winnipeg, Manitoba - MTS Center
16 - Edmonton, Alberta - Rexall Place
18 - Calgary, Alberta - Pengrowth Saddledome
20 - Vancouver, British Columbia - General Motors Place
22 - Portland, OR - Rose Garden
24 - Seattle, WA - KeyArena at Seattle Center
26 - Sacramento, CA - ARCO Arena
28 - San Jose, CA - HP Pavilion

October 2008
1-2 - Los Angeles, CA - Hollywood Bowl
7 - San Diego, CA - San Diego Sports Arena
10 - Glendale, AZ - Jobing.com Arena
12 - San Antonio, TX - AT&T Center
14 - Houston, TX - Toyota Center
16 - Dallas, TX - American Airlines Center
19 - Oklahoma City, OK - Ford Center
21 - Tulsa, OK - BOK Center
24 - Tampa, FL - St. Pete Times Forum
26 - Ft. Lauderdale, FL - BankAtlantic Center
28 - Orlando, FL - Amway Arena Orlando
30 - Jacksonville, FL - Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena


IMHO, venues like the new Studio K at TBT do more for our image than this boondoggle does.

BTW, catch About Tango at TBT....see Tulsa's greatest athletes and most talented artists all in one place at one time. This venue and Theatre company proves you don't have to be big to get attraction. It's about the movement not the size.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Here is Neil Diamond's schedule.

If Tulsa starts averaging only 7000 per show, or even 10,000 per show, we will be hard pressed to attract big shows here over these other listed venues. Our demographics are no where near these other metropolitan cities.

July 2008
19 - St. Paul, MN - Xcel Energy Center
22 - Sioux City, IA - Tyson Events Center24 - Omaha, NE - Qwest Center Omaha26 - Chicago, IL - United Center
29 - Indianapolis, IN - Conseco Fieldhouse
31- Auburn Hills, MI - The Palace of Auburn Hills

August 2008
3 - Cleveland, OH - Quicken Loans Arena
5 - Washington, DC - Verizon Center
7 - Hartford, CT - XL Center9 - Philadelphia, PA - Wachovia Center
12, 14 - New York, NY - Madison Square Garden
18 - Pittsburgh, PA - Mellon Arena
20 - Albany, NY - Times Union Center23 - Boston, MA - Fenway Park
25 - Columbus, OH - Value City Arena at The Schottenstein Center27 - Green Bay, WI - Resch Center
29 - St. Louis, MO - Scottrade Center

September 2008
14 - Winnipeg, Manitoba - MTS Center
16 - Edmonton, Alberta - Rexall Place
18 - Calgary, Alberta - Pengrowth Saddledome
20 - Vancouver, British Columbia - General Motors Place
22 - Portland, OR - Rose Garden
24 - Seattle, WA - KeyArena at Seattle Center
26 - Sacramento, CA - ARCO Arena
28 - San Jose, CA - HP Pavilion

October 2008
1-2 - Los Angeles, CA - Hollywood Bowl
7 - San Diego, CA - San Diego Sports Arena
10 - Glendale, AZ - Jobing.com Arena
12 - San Antonio, TX - AT&T Center
14 - Houston, TX - Toyota Center
16 - Dallas, TX - American Airlines Center
19 - Oklahoma City, OK - Ford Center21 - Tulsa, OK - BOK Center
24 - Tampa, FL - St. Pete Times Forum
26 - Ft. Lauderdale, FL - BankAtlantic Center
28 - Orlando, FL - Amway Arena Orlando30 - Jacksonville, FL - Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena


IMHO, venues like the new Studio K at TBT do more for our image than this boondoggle does.

BTW, catch About Tango at TBT....see Tulsa's greatest athletes and most talented artists all in one place at one time. This venue and Theatre company proves you don't have to be big to get attraction. It's about the movement not the size.

Dude, you're just not quite right on this one.  It's not a question of whether the arena will attract crowds.  It' a question of whether arenas attract big shows.  Big shows always attract crowds.  And for the foreseeable future, as long as SMG is managing, our arena will be attracting big shows.  

You underestimate the amount of money in the Tulsa market.  Prepare to be pleasantly surprised.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

FOTD, I appreciate your skepticism.

BUT, it is totally unfounded and nonconstructive.  Essentially, you are just shouting "yeah, but it will suck!" over and over.  Nothing to back up your claim and no cure for the pending doom.

What good is that?

Yes, I backed up my claim by sighting the decline in average attendence in OKC at the Ford Center after just a few years. Just the facts.

Go back to yer rah rah rah sis boom bah rag.

You are missing the whole point.  The aggregate average attendance doesn't mean squat.  Why in the hell would Neal Diamond care if the Tulsa Talons sell out the BOk Center?  He only cares if the BOk Center sells out other big name music acts.

[dsjeffries]

Took a fun picture of a BOk Worker (bokworker, is that you?) the other night...

[PonderInc]

One of the many cool things about the BOK arena is that it was designed for both large and small crowds.  For events that are not expected to draw big crowds, there's sort of a curtain system that will hide the upper tier of seating.  This makes for a more intimate setting, allows you to have a "sold out" crowd even at smaller events, and allows you to customize the seating/ticket sales as needed.  This, in itself, is a marketing tool for the arena...promoters like it.

[cannon_fodder]

FOTD, you did not back up your statements with anything.  You said, Im paraphrasing here, the "BOk will suck because I think the Ford Center now sucks.  I think they have XYA attendance."  

Stating an opinion or impression to back up your opinion really doesn't advance your position.  If you have data that shows a decline in attendance and wish to correlate that to the shows that are appearing or have some other support for your claims - lets see it.  

My guess, based on an actual fact, is that the 18,000 average for the Hornets games over the last couple of years boosted the attendance figures to new highs.  Unless, of course, prior to that the FORD Center hosting events of that size 60 times a year (it didn't).  So your method of determining success by attendance would be skewed (in my favor) even if you had the data (which you don't).

[Renaissance]

On the day that the sale of Old City Hall has been approved, I thought I'd dredge up an old thread.  We discussed a lot of salient topics 30 months ago, and so much has happened since then.