BOK Center... Almost here.....

[Rico]

OK... I was not very fond of the Arena concept from the beginning... From my personal experience these have panned out to be more fizz and less pop than anything else.

That being said; I was convinced, at one point, that the Arena would be a stepping stone to a possibly larger and more successful infill of the Downtown area.

Lately I have had this nagging perception that this may be all smoke and mirrors.

I can't think of one thing that has been directly connected to the Arena that has been good for Downtown... Unless of course you count the money being paid to the employees of Vision Builders..

Maybe I just need to place a brighter light on this whole thing.?

Let's name things that could not have happened if this Arena had stayed on the drawing board.

I'll begin...

1.Celine Dion would not be playing Tulsa.

2.The Mayor would not have been able to buy a new City Hall.

I hope there is someone with a brighter picture of this whole scenario than I have had lately.

[tulsa1603]

3) we wouldn't have the arena progress to oo and ahh about, and that would mean less focus on downtown.  

I'm not the biggest fan of the location, but the design is great.  The problem I have with arenas in general is that they are used only a few times a week as opposed to constant use and traffic.  It will be hard to build restaurant and hotel business on the arena alone.

[Conan71]

Today was the first time I noticed going past on 244 that it's form is starting to get more interesting.

It's already got infill Rico.  The world galaxy headquarters for Tulsa Today is right nearby.

[perspicuity85]

Ok, I agree, the location sucks, Blue Dome or the Brady Arts districts would have been better, but the arena is an extremely overdue asset the city needs.  Tulsa is like the fat kid that's afraid to get in the deep end of the pool.  Every other city our size opened their arena at least five years before we are.  Thank GOD we finally came to our senses, and thank GOD we built something worth noticing, to make up for the fact that it took us so damn long.  I'm looking forward with cautious optimism for the opening act.  I'm praying it's somebody that makes us look good nationally like Eric Clapton instead of a country star like Garth Brooks or Carrie Underwood.  Let's try to be ahead of the outside perceptions for once....

[sgrizzle]

Borrowed from the city-data forums:

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Today was the first time I noticed going past on 244 that it's form is starting to get more interesting.

It's already got infill Rico.  The world galaxy headquarters for Tulsa Today is right nearby.

Yes, it is too bad the wright building couldn't be demo'd just to shake out the rats.

[TheArtist]

The NW side of the arena has the best "lines" but you cant get a good pic because of the ugly buildings around it on that side lol. But yea, I was hoping for some sort of hotel/mixed use development to go on the Towerview site. It would have helped connect the arena to the other nice parts of downtown much better. Plus fixing the bridge and making it attractive for pedestrians to cross over to the Brady Arts district would have been nice. The arena was the "start" but we have so far failed on the follow-up/supporting stuff that should have gone in around it. But over all it is a beautiful facility that I look forward to going to. And I think it will have a positive impact for the businesses down there. Though not a large one, but every bit helps at this point.

[cannon_fodder]

I was duped sold on the idea thinking Tulsa needed a spark.  I had grand visions of the sort that nearly came to fruition - hotel, condos, retail on a large and high end scale.  I thought the spark would tie together the different districts with the Centennial Walk and make an urban and vibrant downtown with shops, restaurants open past 4pm, and even, perhaps, people.

I'm starting to think I was a fool.  A few new things have gone in the Blue Dome, a couple near the Brady, the Pearl has made some  progress.  But the Kandbar thing has been a bust, no new developers have made a commitment, and no new construction inside the IDL has taken place that hasn't been funded by tax money.  Most recently the announcements have all been jobs LEAVING downtown.  Oh, and just for fun we have added a new vacant building near our new arena and renovated convention center... thanks city hall.

Tons of negativity on these forums lately too, if this group of cheerleaders (AOX excluded) is getting down something has to change.

[carltonplace]

I know cannon, I'm losing my optimism too and I think I want to focus some frustration on the administration. When Maylor came into office we had momentum and promise which has since all but faded. The projects underway now are the same ones that were already on the horizon or planned before her stint and nothing new since. So far she has moved city hall (I think a good move, many disagree) and covered the cost over run on the arena and not much else. Where are the street side cafes in downtown that she promised? Where are all of the new jobs? Where are the young people? Where is the economic development? Downtown is one of my favorite places but there is nothing going on there. The only thing we have in abundance is bums and grifters.

I want my hope back. I want mixed use East End development that is not big box. I want a grocery store and people living in downtown. I want baseball. I want structured parking/retail instead of surface lots. I want infill in uptown and the Brady District. I want the Pearl district and Gunboat master plans enacted.

Maybe it's time that downtown got its own seat on the council. It's def time to scrap DTU and all of the other cronies that are holding it back despite millions in tax payer funded improvements. We have to change the perception of downtown and make it a destination again.

end mindless rant, sorry.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I was duped sold on the idea thinking Tulsa needed a spark.  I had grand visions of the sort that nearly came to fruition - hotel, condos, retail on a large and high end scale.  I thought the spark would tie together the different districts with the Centennial Walk and make an urban and vibrant downtown with shops, restaurants open past 4pm, and even, perhaps, people.

I'm starting to think I was a fool.  A few new things have gone in the Blue Dome, a couple near the Brady, the Pearl has made some  progress.  But the Kandbar thing has been a bust, no new developers have made a commitment, and no new construction inside the IDL has taken place that hasn't been funded by tax money.  Most recently the announcements have all been jobs LEAVING downtown.  Oh, and just for fun we have added a new vacant building near our new arena and renovated convention center... thanks city hall.

Tons of negativity on these forums lately too, if this group of cheerleaders (AOX excluded) is getting down something has to change.

This is how we sucker in young idealistic Iowa farm kids, Cannon. []

[Wrinkle]

Maybe we could get Mr. Boren to host a goodwill conference here on TN.

[cannon_fodder]

No, I think you;re right Carlton.  Downtown is a rare destination for most.  I worked down there, know the area, go to the PAC and live within 5-10 minutes... but I still only go downtown once a month now that I do not live there.  Going for a beer, a show, or soon an "event" brings bursts of life but is not the vibrant atmosphere we are looking for.

Catch 22 really.  You need vibrancy to make it worth the extra hassle for offices to move downtown, retail to get more residence, and events to feed off the vibrant atmosphere and in turn feed it.  Bah!  I don't have an answer so I shouldn't ***** I suppose.

[Renaissance]

One very convenient answer is a municipally subsidized minor league ballpark, built by a developer who includes a package of mixed-use development.  Just a thought--the arena and ballpark would bookend the northern quadrant of the IDL so that all the juicy stuff in between--Blue Dome, Mayo Village, Brady--can synergize.

[carltonplace]

I agree Floyd, but the administration did not back the developer that offered a baseball stadium in favor of a developer that offered a Wal*Mart. Crud! pancakes?!

I know GDP had/has their problems but surely this would have turned out better if the city clearly stated that hotels/mixed use/stadium in downtown was something we want(ed). I can't help but consider that bold straight forward support from the administration could have stopped the bidding war for the Nordam property and given GDP time to acquire it. The way things went down, it feels like the administration might have taken sides to push GDP out of the way.

I don't know this of course, but I wish I could have been a fly on the Himlefarb/Maylor wall.

[TheArtist]

Yes there was a flurry of activity and hope when the arena was started and vision 2025 passed.

But then the reality of how long it takes to do things took hold. The Mayo Hotel and Mayo Buildings will add a good amount of living... but will take a lot of time. First Street Lofts, Matthews lofts and art museum... will take a lot of time. East End deal fell through for now and even when something real gets announced, I am betting this year.... it will still take years to get going. Brady theater remodel fell though for its own reasons. etc. etc.

We are just going to have to realize that we arent going to have the downtown we want as soon as we would like. My bet is that is we will be where OKC is now, in 2012 or 2013. And of course they are going to grow more this year, and so on.  

Even the River District that just got approved for development will take about a year just to do the "dirt work". About a year to prep the site, grading, water lines, sewer, electrical, roads, lake, etc.  before any construction actually starts. Once it gets going though it will really move.

I think the Mayor is taking solid steps with the planning and working hard to make things happen. But even just that process and starting things takes a looot of work. But once that foundation is laid out you will begin to see movement of the kind we have been wanting. Even the arena, the streets, sidewalks,new park, consolidation of city hall that will eventually free up some property, etc are basically "priming the canvas". Getting some of the living and other things I mentioned done or underway will only help the momentum once things really start going in about 4 or 5 years.

Yea 4 or 5 years sounds like an eternity when you want it now lol. But it seems to me to be an honest time scale. Just hang in there.