How is an abstract lost?

[cks511]

I was closing next week on a house BUT my mortgage company called yesterday and said the abstract is lost?  pancakes?  How does that happen?  Does it happen often?  ARRRGHGHGHGH!

[cannon_fodder]

NO it does not happen often.  It can be lost between review, stolen, or most likely misfiled.

It is expensive and time consuming to replace an abstract, if and when it's actually possible.  Sorry to hear about that.  Is there any provisions that allow a Title search and waive the abstract requirement?

[Breadburner]

Some people insist on keeping it instead of having it stored.....And they lose them....I would call your closing company and see what is going on......

[cks511]

Thanks for your advice.  

I have now found out it was lost in TRANSIT from one company to another. From Guaranty to Builders, the delivery person lost it.

Probably because I voted no!

[In2neon]

Now wait a minute...
Whoever lost it is responsible for it or the replacement cost of it which could be from 600 - 1200 bux, maybe more...
I once went looking for mine and traced it to the last person who signed for it and they denied responsibility for it and I had the signature to prove they were the last one to have it and they would have to cough up the abstract or pay for a new one since it was my abstract he signed for not his for the next door property...
The abstract co. called him and told him he indeed was the last person to sign for it and was responsible for it since it was not his to do as he please...
He "found" the abstract and returned it...
Another goose chase led me to one of my abstracts in a Sapulpa title company where I drove over and picked it up...
Don't give up on having them find it or replace it...

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by cks511

Thanks for your advice.  

I have now found out it was lost in TRANSIT from one company to another. From Guaranty to Builders, the delivery person lost it.

Probably because I voted no!

Whoever last signed for the Abstract is liable for replacing it.  

As a sidebar, as I understand it, Oklahoma is the last remaining state in the U.S. to require actual Abstracting for a Real Estate transaction.

Another Retro attribute of the Banana Republic of Oklahoma.

All the rest of the 49 states have gone to simple Title Search & Title Insurance.

Abstracting cost is the primary reason why Oklahoma is #10 in the U.S. in Closing Costs.  

#10.

Another dubious Oklahoma superlative.

Why do we still have Abstracting requirements?

Is it POSSIBLY because Gene Stipe, Mrs. Jim Inhofe, and other local notables OWN abstract companies?  I think Gene and his brother used to own 9 or more in rural counties.  

Had a virtual monopoly for abstract services in those counties.

Did former State Senator Gene Stipe maneuver to make sure that the State AUDITOR and Inspector is the primary regulator of Abstract Companies?

Hmmmmmh?  

Remember that jingle written by none other than convicted Felon and Stipe former business partner Steve Phipps' child??

McMahan Can.  

And, probably DID.  

We know Phipps did.  Did plead guilty to a Federal Felony.

Are the Feds still measuring our esteemed State Auditor for a orange jumpsuit?  

More serious crimes by Oklahoma politicians NOT discovered by our esteemed, long-serving but lame Attorney General.

We'll see how long McMahan lasts..........

[:O]

[cks511]

I have come to believe that is has not been lost.  I have been told it will be rebuilt in two days and yes, cost goes to who signed last.  

It's just a gut feel that there is something going on between my mortgage company and builders title to delay the closing, whatever the reason.  So, I've contacted my attorney to start the ball rolling for my latest Capt Cluso mission...start Pink Panther music here.....I will let you know what happens.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by cks511

I have come to believe that is has not been lost.  I have been told it will be rebuilt in two days and yes, cost goes to who signed last.  

It's just a gut feel that there is something going on between my mortgage company and builders title to delay the closing, whatever the reason.  So, I've contacted my attorney to start the ball rolling for my latest Capt Cluso mission...start Pink Panther music here.....I will let you know what happens.

Are you on the BUY side, or the SELL side of the Transaction?

If the BUY side, the Seller, not YOU, has to furnish the Abstract brought up to date for the attorney opinion/title insurance binder.....

[cks511]

LOL, buyer side and I know.  But when something doesn't feel like an 'honest mistake' or 'that just happens' I get a little nosey.

I agree about the abstract mess - thank you soon to be men in orange!

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by cks511

LOL, buyer side and I know.  But when something doesn't feel like an 'honest mistake' or 'that just happens' I get a little nosey.

I agree about the abstract mess - thank you soon to be men in orange!

Well, every R.E. contract in Oklahoma that I've ever seen states plainly that the SELLER will furnish an abstract updated THROUGH the date of the contract within xx days of the signing of the contract.

Then, your lender (if you are going to mortgage the property) will have a Attorney Opinion generated to see if there are any clouds on the title, and if the seller actually OWNS the property.

This is a pre-amble to a lender-required Title Insurance policy.

Gullible people have bought the Brooklyn Bridge several times, you know...conveyed with a Quick-Claim Deed.

I don't see how you can Close on the loan if the following steps have not been completed ASAP:

1) Abstract has not been updated.
2) An attorney opinion has not been generated.
3) Title Insurance binder obtained by the Lender.

That's the way it works here in Oklahoma.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by cks511

Thanks for your advice.  

I have now found out it was lost in TRANSIT from one company to another. From Guaranty to Builders, the delivery person lost it.

Probably because I voted no!

Whoever last signed for the Abstract is liable for replacing it.  

As a sidebar, as I understand it, Oklahoma is the last remaining state in the U.S. to require actual Abstracting for a Real Estate transaction.

Another Retro attribute of the Banana Republic of Oklahoma.

All the rest of the 49 states have gone to simple Title Search & Title Insurance.

Abstracting cost is the primary reason why Oklahoma is #10 in the U.S. in Closing Costs.  

#10.

Another dubious Oklahoma superlative.

Why do we still have Abstracting requirements?

Is it POSSIBLY because Gene Stipe, Mrs. Jim Inhofe, and other local notables OWN abstract companies?  I think Gene and his brother used to own 9 or more in rural counties.  

Had a virtual monopoly for abstract services in those counties.

Did former State Senator Gene Stipe maneuver to make sure that the State AUDITOR and Inspector is the primary regulator of Abstract Companies?

Hmmmmmh?  

Remember that jingle written by none other than convicted Felon and Stipe former business partner Steve Phipps' child??

McMahan Can.  

And, probably DID.  

We know Phipps did.  Did plead guilty to a Federal Felony.

Are the Feds still measuring our esteemed State Auditor for a orange jumpsuit?  

More serious crimes by Oklahoma politicians NOT discovered by our esteemed, long-serving but lame Attorney General.

We'll see how long McMahan lasts..........

[:O]

I agree.  All these stupid attorney's have their hands in owning the title companies.  I had a GFE from Quicken and they left out over 1000 dollars off of the title fees and insurance.  I believe it was an honest mistake since we are one of the last if not THE LAST to require a full abstract of the property.  And if I read and understood everything right, if you want to refinance you have to get a whole new abstract even though you have one that is already up to date? is that correct??

[cks511]

I know way more than I want about abstracts and oklahoma title companies at this point.  But, the good news is the abstract at large was FOUND yesterday afternoon and unless this wayward abstract wonders off AGAIN, I will still close late next week.  I shouldn't have said that.  

Thanks for all the information from all of you.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by cks511

Thanks for your advice.  

I have now found out it was lost in TRANSIT from one company to another. From Guaranty to Builders, the delivery person lost it.

Probably because I voted no!

Whoever last signed for the Abstract is liable for replacing it.  

As a sidebar, as I understand it, Oklahoma is the last remaining state in the U.S. to require actual Abstracting for a Real Estate transaction.

Another Retro attribute of the Banana Republic of Oklahoma.

All the rest of the 49 states have gone to simple Title Search & Title Insurance.

Abstracting cost is the primary reason why Oklahoma is #10 in the U.S. in Closing Costs.  

#10.

Another dubious Oklahoma superlative.

Why do we still have Abstracting requirements?

Is it POSSIBLY because Gene Stipe, Mrs. Jim Inhofe, and other local notables OWN abstract companies?  I think Gene and his brother used to own 9 or more in rural counties.  

Had a virtual monopoly for abstract services in those counties.

Did former State Senator Gene Stipe maneuver to make sure that the State AUDITOR and Inspector is the primary regulator of Abstract Companies?

Hmmmmmh?  

Remember that jingle written by none other than convicted Felon and Stipe former business partner Steve Phipps' child??

McMahan Can.  

And, probably DID.  

We know Phipps did.  Did plead guilty to a Federal Felony.

Are the Feds still measuring our esteemed State Auditor for a orange jumpsuit?  

More serious crimes by Oklahoma politicians NOT discovered by our esteemed, long-serving but lame Attorney General.

We'll see how long McMahan lasts..........

[:O]

looks like not very long. Channel 8 is reporting that McMahan and his wife have been indicted by a federal grand jury for conspiracy, fraud and racketeering.  They are in some deep *#% now!! I once read an article where 98.3% of people who are indicted by the feds either plead guilty or are convicted.  Not looking good for them!

[In2neon]

QUOTE
"And if I read and understood everything right, if you want to refinance you have to get a whole new abstract even though you have one that is already up to date? is that correct??"


Of course not! an abstract is merely a compilation of copies of public records....
The abstract co. goes to the courthouse or wherever needed to obtain copies of the needed records to paint a picture of ownership...
For the buyers attorney to give an opinion of the picture painted of ownership through the years...
All that is necessary is to let the, I assume, licensed,  abstract company have your abstract  with instructions to update ...
Whereas they will unseal it and add the latest findings and seal it up with a certification and a new "good as of" date...
A new abstract is expensive because all records back to the dinosaurs or a predetermined date will have to be copied @ so much per page or for the time involved...
An update and certification is just the updated pages and the seal from the abstract company ...
Much cheaper...

[cks511]

Well this week, the dead indian issue just showed up on this property....Me thinks he's not wanting me to own his teepee.....this just gets better and better. LOL.