Sales Tax Increase down the Pike

[dsjeffries]

News in the from World... Oklahoma City Mayor Cornett is asking for a 1 cent sales tax increase to fund improvements to the Ford Center and for an NBA practice facility.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080116_1__OKLAH17270

quote: OKLAHOMA CITY -- Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett and local business leaders kicked off a campaign Tuesday backing a penny sales tax to fund improvements to the Ford Center and construction of an NBA practice facility.

Voters will decide on March 4 whether to approve the tax, which is expected to raise $120 million over 15 months. Cornett said the improvements are needed in order to lure an NBA team to the city.

If approved, the tax would start Jan. 1, the day after a sales tax for school improvements elapses. The practice facility and other improvements planned specifically for the NBA would not be built if a team does not relocate to the city, and the tax would be shortened to 12 months and would raise about $97 million.

The Seattle SuperSonics have filed for relocation to Oklahoma City, but a vote by the NBA Board of Governors is not expected until April.

Cornett said that an NBA team would provide a major economic boost to the city and that the Ford Center improvements would also be good for concerts, special events and conventions.

The improvements would include new restaurants, bars and concession areas, a television studio suitable for team interviews, decorative floors and walls, improved
bathrooms, a warm-up court and new locker rooms.

No organized opposition to the tax proposal has emerged, but Oklahoma City resident Steve Hunt said he intended to lead an effort against it.

“I am going to try to get a local group of people that I know to get together and hand out literature,” Hunt said. “It's not expensive, what we do. I have a lot of Internet and YouTube experience.”

Hunt will be up against a campaign funded by the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce. Chamber President Roy Williams said the group should know by the end of the week how much it would spend on the campaign.

The chamber has backed recent campaigns for an Oklahoma City school bond issue and a city general obligation bond issue which will pay for street projects and other capital improvements. Voters approved both bond issues.

“It will be a much more expensive campaign than the city or school bond campaigns,” Williams said. “We are using campaign professionals that have had experience in these type of campaigns. They put together the strategy. They do the polling. They help construct the campaign.”

I would bet that Oklahoma City passes this measure, even though it's a full cent.

It's sad to see such a clear difference in citizens' philosophies between Tulsa and OKC... One of progress and proactiveness and one of, well, NOT.

We couldn't even get four-tenths of a penny and subsequently turned down $125 million in donations and $500 million in development.

THAT, my friends, is sad. []

(On a lighter note, if this passes, OKC's sales tax rate will be wayyyy higher than Tulsa's, so now the naysayer's can't try to claim that our taxes are just toooooo high)

[cannon_fodder]

I called this as soon as OKC started looking for a team.  The team would demand money for the arena.   It was also inevitable as soon as it became apperent that Tulsa's arena would be a notch above the Ford Center.  Called it called it called it.
- - -

I'd probably vote this down.  In fact, I'd vote against any proposal that gave money to a multi Billion Dollar institution that had dozens of people on staff each making millions of dollars each year.  Seems like they don't need my pennies.

I admit I might be blinded by the "big time" if a pro team was looking at Tulsa, but usually pro-teams end up sucking money out of a city in new arenas, practice facilities, upgrades, tax incentives, and on and on.  I'm not even sure the large scale economics brings money in to the city, I suppose it probably would.  

Pretty soon a request for State money will come.  Just wait.  It will be important to the image of Oklahoma to have a pro sports team or some such nonsense.  

I'm proud that I am apparently not progressive nor proactive when it comes to subsidizing a multi-billion dollar entertainment enterprise.  I'd be damn happy if they could come and make money, but if they need $120mil so they can entertain a few of them and enrich a handful - no thanks.  

I see a bit of a difference between subsidizing a NBA team and paying for parks (which I voted yes on).  Perhaps OKC has been able to get good measures passed before, but I don't really see this in the same light.  Good JOBS are far more important IMHO.  Enough of those and a pro sports team will come knocking eventually without a bribe.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I'm proud that I am apparently not progressive nor proactive when it comes to subsidizing a multi-billion dollar entertainment enterprise.  I'd be damn happy if they could come and make money, but if they need $120mil so they can entertain a few of them and enrich a handful - no thanks.  

I see a bit of a difference between subsidizing a NBA team and paying for parks (which I voted yes on).  Perhaps OKC has been able to get good measures passed before, but I don't really see this in the same light.  Good JOBS are far more important IMHO.  Enough of those and a pro sports team will come knocking eventually without a bribe.

I was speaking of the general divide between Oklahoma City and Tulsa in terms of trying to improve their city by whatever means possible.  Oklahoma City has consistently passed measure after measure to improve their city while Tulsa, even with $625 million in free money on the table, turned down a proposal that was less than half of what OKC is about to face.  Granted, the two cities' projects are completely different, and I don't really care whether an NBA team comes to Oklahoma, but it is showing of the kind of attitude toward change.  Here, with all the retirement communities and old money voting no on everything that says tax (and with people like Bates and Eagleton on the loose), we're stuck in a comfy, muddy rut.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I called this as soon as OKC started looking for a team.  The team would demand money for the arena.   It was also inevitable as soon as it became apperent that Tulsa's arena would be a notch above the Ford Center.  Called it called it called it.
- - -

I'd probably vote this down.  In fact, I'd vote against any proposal that gave money to a multi Billion Dollar institution that had dozens of people on staff each making millions of dollars each year.  Seems like they don't need my pennies.

I admit I might be blinded by the "big time" if a pro team was looking at Tulsa, but usually pro-teams end up sucking money out of a city in new arenas, practice facilities, upgrades, tax incentives, and on and on.  I'm not even sure the large scale economics brings money in to the city, I suppose it probably would.  

Pretty soon a request for State money will come.  Just wait.  It will be important to the image of Oklahoma to have a pro sports team or some such nonsense.  

I'm proud that I am apparently not progressive nor proactive when it comes to subsidizing a multi-billion dollar entertainment enterprise.  I'd be damn happy if they could come and make money, but if they need $120mil so they can entertain a few of them and enrich a handful - no thanks.  

I see a bit of a difference between subsidizing a NBA team and paying for parks (which I voted yes on).  Perhaps OKC has been able to get good measures passed before, but I don't really see this in the same light.  Good JOBS are far more important IMHO.  Enough of those and a pro sports team will come knocking eventually without a bribe.

I told you so....I told you so..I told you so.....Lame...lame...lame....

[sgrizzle]

I enjoy the fact they built a crappy arena and now want to raise taxes again to try to make it halfway decent. They will end up spending as much as we have for our arena and theirs will still be patched together.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

On a lighter note, if this passes, OKC's sales tax rate will be wayyyy higher than Tulsa's, so now the naysayer's can't try to claim that our taxes are just toooooo high

OKC's sales tax rate may be higher than Tulsa's, but this has nothing to do with whether or not Tulsa's is already too high.  I happen to think it is, especially since basic clothing and foodstuffs are subject to sales tax.  I will vote no on any future sales tax increase, for whatever reason, until Oklahoma exempts those items from sales tax.  Then end does not always justify the means.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

On a lighter note, if this passes, OKC's sales tax rate will be wayyyy higher than Tulsa's, so now the naysayer's can't try to claim that our taxes are just toooooo high

OKC's sales tax rate may be higher than Tulsa's, but this has nothing to do with whether or not Tulsa's is already too high.  I happen to think it is, especially since basic clothing and foodstuffs are subject to sales tax.  I will vote no on any future sales tax increase, for whatever reason, until Oklahoma exempts those items from sales tax.  Then end does not always justify the means.

We are taxed and insuranced to death.....

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Breadburner

Lame...lame...lame....

Hey, plenty of people argued that they had the facilities and they weren't asking for any tax money.  I believe the term used to describe the Ford Center was "world class" even after I pointed out they wanted a $500,000,000 facility in Seattle but would settle for the Ford Center (which serves it's purpose mind you, not knocking it).  But thanks for adding substantively to the conversation.

[Renaissance]

Oklahoma City continues to turn itself into a really cool place.  I would probably disagree with the tax myself, but apparently it's a price the residents are going to be more than happy to pay to join the big leagues.  Very, very interesting.

[YoungTulsan]

First they get talked into passing 1 cent for 15 months for a practice facility, then they will get talked into simply "extending" that tax for 5-10 years to build a new $600 million NBA arena.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

On a lighter note, if this passes, OKC's sales tax rate will be wayyyy higher than Tulsa's, so now the naysayer's can't try to claim that our taxes are just toooooo high

OKC's sales tax rate may be higher than Tulsa's, but this has nothing to do with whether or not Tulsa's is already too high.  I happen to think it is, especially since basic clothing and foodstuffs are subject to sales tax.  I will vote no on any future sales tax increase, for whatever reason, until Oklahoma exempts those items from sales tax.  Then end does not always justify the means.

The "Tulsa's sales tax rate is higher than OKC's" was one of the main tenets of the opponents of the River Tax.  I said it with a wink, though [], hence the extra letters... The No crowd will always find a way to make something sound bad.  If the River vote were coming up now as opposed to October, I wonder what their lyrics would be. []

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

On a lighter note, if this passes, OKC's sales tax rate will be wayyyy higher than Tulsa's, so now the naysayer's can't try to claim that our taxes are just toooooo high

OKC's sales tax rate may be higher than Tulsa's, but this has nothing to do with whether or not Tulsa's is already too high.  I happen to think it is, especially since basic clothing and foodstuffs are subject to sales tax.  I will vote no on any future sales tax increase, for whatever reason, until Oklahoma exempts those items from sales tax.  Then end does not always justify the means.

The "Tulsa's sales tax rate is higher than OKC's" was one of the main tenets of the opponents of the River Tax.  I said it with a wink, though [], hence the extra letters... The No crowd will always find a way to make something sound bad.  If the River vote were coming up now as opposed to October, I wonder what their lyrics would be. []

And the Yes crowd will always find a way to make a tax increase sound beneficial.  (Let's do it for our kids.)  My opinion is sales taxes are extremely regressive, and the least desireable way of funding public projects.  Lets propose a 25%+ increase in property taxes for development and see how much support that gets from the fat cat Kaiser crowd.  Zilch, I would bet.  "Them that has" will always support sales taxes, because it affects them the least, and they hate property taxes because it impacts them more.

[Wilbur]

Oklahoma City sales tax rate = 8.375%

Tulsa sales tax rate = 8.517%

If Oklahoma City continues to pass sales taxes higher and higher and have already passed higher rates in the past to make great projects, it sounds like their leaders know how to prioritize their spending.

Unlike Tulsa, who already has a higher sales tax rate and still can't keep up, tells me they can't seem to prioritize their spending.

When Tulsa gets a grip on how they spend money and prioritizes in a proper way and stops knee jerking, I'll continue to vote NO!

[inteller]

Well as I see it we will have an arena sitting empty at the end of the year and OKC will have a crappy arena they want to improve.  I guess Tulsa is incapable of having a ball team?

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Oklahoma City sales tax rate = 8.375%

Tulsa sales tax rate = 8.517%

If Oklahoma City continues to pass sales taxes higher and higher and have already passed higher rates in the past to make great projects, it sounds like their leaders know how to prioritize their spending.

Unlike Tulsa, who already has a higher sales tax rate and still can't keep up, tells me they can't seem to prioritize their spending.

When Tulsa gets a grip on how they spend money and prioritizes in a proper way and stops knee jerking, I'll continue to vote NO!

FWIW, OKC's deal will replace an expiring 1% sales tax, so even if approved, their sales tax rate will remain less than Tulsa's existing rate.