I Have a Dream! (discussion)

[cannon_fodder]

The following is an excerpt from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. from his "I Have a Dream Speech" Delivered Aug. 28, 1963 in Washington DC.  I have truncated it for this discussion, in it's entirety it is a brilliant piece of speech writing and a work of art (full transcript and mp3 linked below).  However, too many people will not take to the time to read it - so please at least take the time to read the following 250 word slaughter of it.

quote:But 100 years later, the Negro still is not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination...

In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men - yes, black men as well as white men - would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character...

• ne day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers...

Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring - when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children - black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics - will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

Full text:
http://teacherlink.ed.usu.edu/tlresources/reference/ihaveadream.html

Audio (full, mp3):
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/mp3clips/politicalspeeches/mlkingihaveadream123456.mp3
- - -

Now, the annual question is - were are we in the course of this dream?  Clearly a loaded question to try and answer honestly, and it may not be PC to do so.  But nonetheless...

Racism is not eliminated by any means.  I doubt I or my son will see that in our lifetimes.  However, institutionalized racism is a rarity and only accomplished in the shadows.  Lets step back and examine:

quote:the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination

I would disagree with this statement.  Segregation has been eliminated as an institution and steps are actively taken to diversify schools and other institutions.  For every ignorant fool that refuses to hire on the color of the skin there is a corporation seeking minority employees or a college offering scholarships for skin color.

An encumbrance certainly remains in some instances, but any crippling effects are mitigated by institutionalized advantages.      

quote:all men - yes, black men as well as white men - would be guaranteed the unalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness

In the eyes of the law this has been accomplished fully for decades.  Not only in law, but in enforcement.  No person can deny another these rights based on the color of their skin or any other of a number of protected categories.  Violations certainly occur, but as a notable exception and not the rule.

quote:little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers

I can not speak for Alabama, but in Iowa and Oklahoma (where I have lived) I can attest that my son and most of his friends are largely oblivious to race.  I was never encouraged or discouraged from friends based on race and few that I know seem to even take note.  I am confident the social stigma of friendship between races that Dr. King spoke of is a thing of the past.  While a minority of individuals may be taught otherwise, society no longer views a black man and a white man going to a football game together as anything of note.

quote:a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character

And the biggest for last. There have been books written and classes taught about this phrase.  What exactly does he mean?  Let alone, has it been accomplished?

In this regard it is at best a mixed bag.  Racism will exist as, if nothing else, stereotypes for as long as they hold any semblance of truth.  Judging on the color of skin will further exist as long as scholarships, job openings, grant money, bid preferences, and preferential admission status are given based on the color of skin.

The nature of the judging has certainly changed, and some argue the pendulum has swung in the other direction (the non-sequitur "reverse racism" old: black = you're out.  New: black = could help get in), but unfortunately the color of a persons skin is still a factor in many institutional decisions.  BUT, nonetheless, I think most would agree that the content of character is now MORE IMPORTANT than skin color in those decisions.

So if not achieved or if over achieved - we have certainly improved from an institutional denial based on skin color as well as an overall perception of race. Many people believed blacks were inferior as a matter of fact because of their race, today it is more likely the races hold a stereotypical view of each other instead of an inherent superiority (barring of course the usually fools).
- - - - -

SO...

having seemingly achieved most of the Dreams Dr. King shared, at least to a large extent, why has there not been a chorus of "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"  

Accepting the premise that black American's have an equal chance of admission and student aid to higher education as well as job placement. That the vast majority of housing opportunities, loans, travel, and other amenities are no longer denied by race.  That voting rights, public office, and official government jobs are not denied by race.  That most people and businesses provide the same services without regard to race.

Why is there such a disparity?  Why does the earning gap continue to grow between black American's and every other group (even immigrant Hispanic groups have gained - historically the last lowest group rises up when the newest group comes)?  Why do 12% of African American males sit in prison (2% Hispanic, 1.2% white)?  Why are graduation rates for black's sliding?

The literacy rate for black men in the United State's has DECLINED since from a 1st generation emancipation rate of ~72% (1910) to a recent census number of 56%.  Only 56% of black citizens in the United States are literate. The 56% is FAR lower than the literacy rate among blacks in the 1960's (which were within statistical reach of white levels by some estimates).  Literacy has declined among the black population since Dr. King's speech by a drastic margin. The education gap has, by many measures, widened (enrollment, high school graduation, etc.).  


Why?  Am I daft in believing that race relations have improved?  Do the minority scholarships (universal) and/or preferential admissions (most colleges) not make any improvement?  Is there more institutional racism than I am aware of and, if so, is it profound enough to keep 25% of American down and why is it not brought to the surface?

It is alarming that the latest generation - the children of the King era, who have arguably grown up with every advantage my son has - have actually regressed by most estimates.  More black men in prisons.  Earnings are stagnant. Education is down.  Are they taking their freedoms for granted - why would they do so more than any other group?

I'm not trying to be a jerk or make light.  Is this problem just blown out of proportion or am I right to be concern? I've thought long and hard about this and I don't know.  Someone help me understand.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


It is alarming that the latest generation - the children of the King era, who have arguably grown up with every advantage my son has - have actually regressed by most estimates.  More black men in prisons.  Earnings are stagnant. Education is down.  Are they taking their freedoms for granted - why would they do so more than any other group?

The "obvious" answer is that it has become harder for the poor in recent times, many families have fallen from the middle class, and that blacks are disproportionately part of those poor and formerly middle class groups.

In many less affluent circles, education has become something to be ridiculed in the last 10 or 20 years. I blame the chorus of "those who can't, teach" attitudes. (I use that specific example because I noticed someone use it earlier) It would be interesting to look at funding for public education versus inflation over the past 50 years and compare that to literacy rates.

[cannon_fodder]

Interesting hypothesis, but if it were a sign of the times - that times were simply harder for the poor, it should be reflected across the board (there are more poor white people than poor black people at the end of the day).  What's more, Hispanics are just as if not more likely than blacks to have lower incomes; yet we do not see this trend in literacy rates.

- - -

I do not think it is a funding issue.  First, it would manifest itself across races.  Second, the numbers do not support this hypothesis:
http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/10facts/edlite-chart.html

Adjusted for inflation, we spend more than TWICE as much per pupil than we did when Dr. King delivered his speech.


Grant money for poor districts has increased more than 5 fold (constant dollars).  

I though about the funding angle.  We've been spending more money for decades.  Throw money at it.  Pay teachers more.  More computers.  Better buildings.  It has not helped.
- - -

quote:In many less affluent circles, education has become something to be ridiculed in the last 10 or 20 years.

I have noticed that in recent years also.  But is this a reaction to the slumping position or the cause of it?  I guess an aversion to education in the modern economy would exacerbate any discrepancies that already existed.  But why then did it develop?   And how do you teach people that don't want to be taught?

[ARGUS]

I have a dream: "That Inteller pull his head out of his _ss"

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

I have a dream: "That Inteller pull his head out of his _ss"

What is it like to have your hand up a sock puppets arse......

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Interesting hypothesis, but if it were a sign of the times - that times were simply harder for the poor, it should be reflected across the board (there are more poor white people than poor black people at the end of the day).  What's more, Hispanics are just as if not more likely than blacks to have lower incomes; yet we do not see this trend in literacy rates.

Hispanics, in general, have a much different attitude when it comes to education, usually quite positive. That could offset the general propensity of the poor to have a bad attitude towards education.

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


I do not think it is a funding issue.  First, it would manifest itself across races.  Second, the numbers do not support this hypothesis:
http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/10facts/edlite-chart.html

Adjusted for inflation, we spend more than TWICE as much per pupil than we did when Dr. King delivered his speech.


Grant money for poor districts has increased more than 5 fold (constant dollars).  

I though about the funding angle.  We've been spending more money for decades.  Throw money at it.  Pay teachers more.  More computers.  Better buildings.  It has not helped.

I suspected that, but had no data, so I didn't want to go assuming.

From my time in school (class of '99), I had a feeling that money was being spent ineffectively. That's pretty much a classic symptom of throwing money at a problem with no idea to what it should go. It seems like NCLB has only made that problem worse.

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


I have noticed that in recent years also.  But is this a reaction to the slumping position or the cause of it?  I guess an aversion to education in the modern economy would exacerbate any discrepancies that already existed.  But why then did it develop?   And how do you teach people that don't want to be taught?

Part of the problem is that people find themselves with other things to do, like parenting their unplanned children, working to keep the family fed, and that sort of thing. If I'm remembering correctly, young black women are much more likely to end up pregnant in high school than young white women. Needless to say, I strongly doubt that helps.

There was an HBO documentary on this subject that was produced for the 50th anniversary of Little Rock Central's integration. Quite eye-opening, that one.

It seemed to indicate that a large part of the problem is indeed the attitude toward education that many parents hold, and that they rub off on the kids. Basically, in families where the parents make it clear to the kids that an education is important, the kids do much better in school, even without direct involvement.

Of course, many in the black community have a general distrust of "the man," and that has a significant effect on their attitude towards education. And with a significant fraction of society at large going on about "welfare queens in the inner city," implying that blacks on welfare are just lazy and living off the government in high style, (poor blacks tend to be concentrated more in cities, while poor whites tend to be more rural, although there is some crossover) the incredibly high incarceration rate of black males, and other factors that make it seem like society is against them.

It doesn't help that so many sing the mantra that more blacks are disproportionately represented in the prison population because they're more likely to be criminals, even when the evidence doesn't bear that out. Blacks are much more likely to end up in a jail cell instead of on probation, in addition to getting harsher sentences than whites. In capital cases, they're far more likely to receive the death penalty.

Edited to add: Note that most of these issues aren't specific to blacks, but are more "poor" issues. Their history may make them uniquely susceptible to the feelings of powerlessness and resentment caused by that treatment. It can't help that so many declare race as a "solved" issue, when it's fairly obviously not. Some contend that the current fracas over illegal immigration is more about racism than anything else.

I'm sure it can't help that blacks are to this day taught that the Reconstruction-era governments that were largely controlled by blacks were corrupt and that the whites had to swoop in to save them, despite that being completely incorrect. History class (or the History Channel) doesn't teach us how much better race relations were in the 20 years after the Civil War, before the decline in the late 1800s and early 1900s that lasted until the civil rights movement.

[mr.jaynes]

I think Bill Cosby summed it up very well:



Ladies and gentlemen, I really have to ask you to seriously consider what you’ve heard, and now this is the end of the evening so to speak. I heard a prize fight manager say to his fellow who was losing badly, “David, listen to me. It’s not what’s he’s doing to you. It’s what you’re not doing. (laughter).

Ladies and gentlemen, these people set, they opened the doors, they gave us the right, and today, ladies and gentlemen, in our cities and public schools we have fifty percent drop out. In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they’re pregnant without a husband. (clapping) No longer is a boy considered an embarrassment if he tries to run away from being the father of the unmarried child (clapping)

Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic and lower middle economic people are [not*] holding their end in this deal. In the neighborhood that most of us grew up in, parenting is not going on. (clapping) In the old days, you couldn’t hooky school because every drawn shade was an eye (laughing). And before your mother got off the bus and to the house, she knew exactly where you had gone, who had gone into the house, and where you got on whatever you had one and where you got it from. Parents don’t know that today.

I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? (clapping) Where were you when he was twelve? (clapping) Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol? (clapping) And where is his father, and why don’t you know where he is? And why doesn’t the father show up to talk to this boy?

The church is only open on Sunday. And you can’t keep asking Jesus to ask doing things for you (clapping). You can’t keep asking that God will find a way. God is tired of you (clapping and laughing). God was there when they won all those cases. 50 in a row. That’s where God was because these people were doing something. And God said, “I’m going to find a way.” I wasn’t there when God said it… I’m making this up (laughter). But it sounds like what God would do (laughter).

We cannot blame white people. White people (clapping) .. white people don’t live over there. They close up the shop early. The Korean ones still don’t know us as well…they stay open 24 hours (laughter).

I’m looking and I see a man named Kenneth Clark. He and his wife Mamie…Kenneth’s still alive. I have to apologize to him for these people because Kenneth said it straight. He said you have to strengthen yourselves…and we’ve got to have that black doll. And everybody said it. Julian Bond said it. Dick Gregory said it. All these lawyers said it. And you wouldn’t know that anybody had done a damned thing.

50 percent drop out rate, I’m telling you, and people in jail, and women having children by five, six different men. Under what excuse, I want somebody to love me, and as soon as you have it, you forget to parent. Grandmother, mother, and great grandmother in the same room, raising children, and the child knows nothing about love or respect of any one of the three of them (clapping). All this child knows is “gimme, gimme, gimme.” These people want to buy the friendship of a child….and the child couldn’t care less. Those of us sitting out here who have gone on to some college or whatever we’ve done, we still fear our parents (clapping and laughter). And these people are not parenting. They’re buying things for the kid. $500 sneakers, for what? They won’t buy or spend $250 on Hooked on Phonics. (clapping)

A\Kenneth Clark, somewhere in his home in upstate New York…just looking ahead. Thank God, he doesn’t know what’s going on, thank God. But these people, the ones up here in the balcony fought so hard. Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! Then we all run out and are outraged, “The cops shouldn’t have shot him” What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? (laughter and clapping). I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else (laughter) And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said if get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother. Not you’re going to get your butt kicked. No. You’re going to embarrass your mother. You’re going to embarrass your family.

If knock that girl up, you’re going to have to run away because it’s going to be too embarrassing for your family. In the old days, a girl getting pregnant had to go down South, and then her mother would go down to get her. But the mother had the baby. I said the mother had the baby. The girl didn’t have a baby. The mother had the baby in two weeks. (laughter) We are not parenting. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to these people, they are showing you what’s wrong. People putting their clothes on backwards. –isn’t that a sign of something going on wrong? (laughter)
 
Are you not paying attention, people with their hat on backwards, pants down around the crack. Isn’t that a sign of something, or are you waiting for Jesus to pull his pants up (laughter and clapping ). Isn’t it a sign of something when she’s got her dress all the way up to the crack…and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from? (laughter). We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans, they don’t know a damned thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail. (When we give these kinds names to our children, we give them the strength and inspiration in the meaning of those names. What’s the point of giving them strong names if there is not parenting and values backing it up).

Brown Versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person’s problem. We’ve got to take the neighborhood back (clapping). We’ve got to go in there. Just forget telling your child to go to the Peace Corps. It’s right around the corner. (laughter) It’s standing on the corner. It can’t speak English. It doesn’t want to speak English. I can’t even talk the way these people talk. “Why you ain’t where you is go, ra,” I don’t know who these people are. And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk (laughter). Then I heard the father talk. This is all in the house. You used to talk a certain way on the corner and you got into the house and switched to English. Everybody knows it’s important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can’t land a plane with “why you ain’t…” You can’t be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. There is no Bible that has that kind of language. Where did these people get the idea that they’re moving ahead on this. Well, they know they’re not, they’re just hanging out in the same place, five or six generations sitting in the projects when you’re just supposed to stay there long enough to get a job and move out.

Now look, I’m telling you. It’s not what they’re doing to us. It’s what we’re not doing. 50 percent drop out. Look, we’re raising our own ingrown immigrants. These people are fighting hard to be ignorant. There’s no English being spoken, and they’re walking and they’re angry. Oh God, they’re angry and they have pistols and they shoot and they do stupid things. And after they kill somebody, they don’t have a plan. Just murder somebody. Boom. Over what? A pizza? And then run to the poor cousin’s house. They sit there and the cousin says “what are you doing here?” “I just killed somebody, man.” “What?” “I just killed somebody, I’ve got to stay here.” “No, you don’t.” “Well, give me some money, I’ll go…” “Where are you going?” “North Carolina.” Everybody wanted to go to North Carolina. But the police know where you’re going because your cousin has a record.

Five or six different children, same woman, eight, ten different husbands or whatever, pretty soon you’re going to have to have DNA cards so you can tell who you’re making love to. You don’t who this is. It might be your grandmother. (laughter) I’m telling you, they’re young enough. Hey, you have a baby when you’re twelve. Your baby turns thirteen and has a baby, how old are you? Huh? Grandmother. By the time you’re twelve, you could have sex with your grandmother, you keep those numbers coming. I’m just predicting.

I’m saying Brown Vs. Board of Education. We’ve got to hit the streets, ladies and gentlemen. I’m winding up, now , no more applause. I’m saying, look at the Black Muslims. There are Black Muslims standing on the street corners and they say so forth and so on, and we’rere laughing at them because they have bean pies and all that, but you don’t read “Black Muslim gunned down while chastising drug dealer.” You don’t read that. They don’t shoot down Black Muslims. You understand me. Muslims tell you to get out of the neighborhood. When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims, bean pies and all (laughter). And your neighborhood is then clear. The police can’t do it .

I’m telling you Christians, what’s wrong with you? Why can’t you hit the streets? Why can’t you clean it out yourselves? It’s our time now, ladies and gentlemen. It is our time (clapping). And I’ve got good news for you. It’s not about money. It’s about you doing something ordinarily that we do—get in somebody else’s business. It’s time for you to not accept the language that these people are speaking, which will take them nowhere. What the hell good is Brown V. Board of Education if nobody wants it?

What is it with young girls getting after some girl who wants to still remain a virgin. Who are these sick black people and where did they come from and why haven’t they been parented to shut up? To go up to girls and try to get a club where “you are nobody..,” this is a sickness ladies and gentlemen and we are not paying attention to these children. These are children. They don’t know anything. They don’t have anything. They’re homeless people. All they know how to do is beg. And you give it to them, trying to win their friendship. And what are they good for? And then they stand there in an orange suit and you drop to your knees, “(crying sound) He didn’t do anything, he didn’t do anything.” Yes, he did do it. And you need to have an orange suit on too (laughter, clapping).

So, ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you for the award (big laughter) and giving me an opportunity to speak because, I mean, this is the future, and all of these people who lined up and done..they’ve got to be wondering what the hell happened. Brown V. Board of Education, these people who marched and were hit in the face with rocks and punched in the face to get an education and we got these knuckleheads walking around who don’t want to learn English (clapping) I know that you all know it. I just want to get you as angry that you ought to be. When you walk around the neighborhood and you see this stuff, that stuff’s not funny. These people are not funny anymore. And that ‘s not brother. And that’s not my sister. They’re faking and they’re dragging me way down because the state, the city and all these people have to pick up the tab on them because they don’t want to accept that they have to study to get an education.

We have to begin to build in the neighborhood, have restaurants, have cleaners, have pharmacies, have real estate, have medical buildings instead of trying to rob them all. And so, ladies and gentlemen, please, Dorothy Height, where ever she’s sitting, she didn’t do all that stuff so that she could hear somebody say “I can’t stand algebra, I can’t stand…and “what you is.” It’s horrible.

Basketball players, multimillionaires can’t write a paragraph. Football players, multimillionaires, can’t read. Yes. Multimillionaires. Well, Brown V Board of Education, where are we today? It’s there. They paved the way. What did we do with it. The white man, he’s laughing, got to be laughing. 50 percent drop out, rest of them in prison.

You got to tell me that if there was parenting, help me, if there was parenting, he wouldn’t have picked up the Coca Cola bottle and walked out with it to get shot in the back of the head. He wouldn’t have. Not if he loved his parents. And not if they were parenting! Not if the father would come home. Not if the boy hadn’t dropped the sperm cell inside of the girl and the girl had said, “No, you have to come back here and be the father of this child.” Not ..“I don’t have to.”

Therefore, you have the pile up of these sweet beautiful things born by nature raised by no one. Give them presents. You’re raising pimps. That’s what a pimp is. A pimp will act nasty to you so you have to go out and get them something. And then you bring it back and maybe he or she hugs you. And that’s why pimp is so famous. They’ve got a drink called the “Pimp-something.” You all wonder what that’s about, don’t you? Well, you’re probably going to let Jesus figure it out for you (laughter). Well, I’ve got something to tell you about Jesus. When you go to the church, look at the stained glass things of Jesus. Look at them. Is Jesus smiling? Not in one picture. So, tell your friends. Let’s try to do something. Let’s try to make Jesus smile. Let’s start parenting. Thank you, thank you (clapping, cheers)

[cannon_fodder]

Thank you Jaynes:

Bill Cosby, "Pound Cake Speech."  Address to the NAACP on the 50th Anniversary of Brown v. Board.  17 May 2004, Constitution Hall, Washington D.C.

Verifying text and MP3:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/billcosbypoundcakespeech.htm
- - -

Of the options given so far, that makes the most sense.  Children without parents remain children - who do stupid things (like drop out of school, commit crimes, etc.) regardless of their race.  But why is it so concentrated in African American Communities?  I'm not trying to ask a circular question - it really bothers me.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


Of the options given so far, that makes the most sense.  Children without parents remain children - who do stupid things (like drop out of school, commit crimes, etc.) regardless of their race.  But why is it so concentrated in African American Communities?  I'm not trying to ask a circular question - it really bothers me.

It isn't, it's concentrated in the poor. Of course, I grew up in a predominately white area in Arkansas. The only black kids in my middle school were middle class and intelligent. The "white trash" mostly ended up like the stereotypical inner city blacks.

Whether you see it more in whites or blacks is a rural vs. urban thing.

Oklahoma's teen pregnancy rate isn't where it is solely because of blacks.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by nathanm

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder


Of the options given so far, that makes the most sense.  Children without parents remain children - who do stupid things (like drop out of school, commit crimes, etc.) regardless of their race.  But why is it so concentrated in African American Communities?  I'm not trying to ask a circular question - it really bothers me.

 The "white trash" mostly ended up like the stereotypical inner city blacks.

Oklahoma's teen pregnancy rate isn't where it is solely because of blacks.

The "white trash" types do behave this way, and are getting worse all the time. And I suspect that it's a generational thing, behaviors passed down generation by generation, and shaped and influenced by the current culture of their time.

As for the teen pregnancy rate, I do remember how it was once somewhere in the top 10 (perhaps even the top 5) of all states in terms of this. But I've been gone for many years. It could be #1 by now. I won't say that it is solely due to trends in the black community, now or ever: I'd known many whites who'd found themselves in that situation.

That aside, I really have to be persuaded that Dr. King's dream has been completely fulfilled, while at the same time (and no racism intended), I do question whether or not Cosby's Pound Cake speech had any true impact.

[rwarn17588]

The teen pregnancy rate in Oklahoma is slightly above the national average. It's not even in the top 15.

Teen pregnancy rates nationwide have been dropping steadily since for at least 20 years. In fact, I read an AP story somewhere a couple of weeks ago that it's the lowest it's been since the mid-1970s.

[mr.jaynes]

Being a conservative and religious state (this is the Bible Belt, you know), and without much in the way of sex education, I'm curious how teen pregnancy was such a noticeable trend.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Thank you Jaynes:

Bill Cosby, "Pound Cake Speech."  Address to the NAACP on the 50th Anniversary of Brown v. Board.  17 May 2004, Constitution Hall, Washington D.C.

Verifying text and MP3:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/billcosbypoundcakespeech.htm
- - -

Of the options given so far, that makes the most sense.  Children without parents remain children - who do stupid things (like drop out of school, commit crimes, etc.) regardless of their race.  But why is it so concentrated in African American Communities?  I'm not trying to ask a circular question - it really bothers me.

More money thrown at schools doesn't get a parent to put down the crack pipe or quit snorting meth.

Failure in education starts with parents who take no or little interest in their child's education.  There are drop outs at every school who wind up in prison and there are those who go on to college and succeed in life.  Throwing more money at under-performing schools does not automatically translate to better grades.

In lower income areas, there is a continual cycle.  Lower income people likely had parents with little education and little interest in their child's education, therefore they will perpetuate the cycle with their own kids unless they have a very strong desire to see their kids do better than themselves.  Some kids self-motivate to get out of poverty cycle, but it's more difficult without a supportive family.

It's hard for a parent who doesn't know what success is to provide an example to a child of how to properly succeed and the hard work it takes to do it.

That's one reason suburban districts like Jenks, BA, Union, & Owasso do very well.  Those are predominantly higher income districts.  Those parents know what it takes to succeed, set an example, and typically participate more in their kid's school and activities.

More money thrown at schools simply offers better programs and education for those who have the desire to succeed and who have a supportive family structure behind them it doesn't help kids who don't have that behind them.

Better communication and cooperation between educators and parents is what makes a difference.

It's really more of a moral issue not one of governance.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Thank you Jaynes:

Bill Cosby, "Pound Cake Speech."  Address to the NAACP on the 50th Anniversary of Brown v. Board.  17 May 2004, Constitution Hall, Washington D.C.

Verifying text and MP3:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/billcosbypoundcakespeech.htm
- - -

Of the options given so far, that makes the most sense.  Children without parents remain children - who do stupid things (like drop out of school, commit crimes, etc.) regardless of their race.  But why is it so concentrated in African American Communities?  I'm not trying to ask a circular question - it really bothers me.

More money thrown at schools doesn't get a parent to put down the crack pipe or quit snorting meth.

Failure in education starts with parents who take no or little interest in their child's education.  There are drop outs at every school who wind up in prison and there are those who go on to college and succeed in life.  Throwing more money at under-performing schools does not automatically translate to better grades.

In lower income areas, there is a continual cycle.  Lower income people likely had parents with little education and little interest in their child's education, therefore they will perpetuate the cycle with their own kids unless they have a very strong desire to see their kids do better than themselves.  Some kids self-motivate to get out of poverty cycle, but it's more difficult without a supportive family.

It's hard for a parent who doesn't know what success is to provide an example to a child of how to properly succeed and the hard work it takes to do it.

That's one reason suburban districts like Jenks, BA, Union, & Owasso do very well.  Those are predominantly higher income districts.  Those parents know what it takes to succeed, set an example, and typically participate more in their kid's school and activities.

More money thrown at schools simply offers better programs and education for those who have the desire to succeed and who have a supportive family structure behind them it doesn't help kids who don't have that behind them.

Better communication and cooperation between educators and parents is what makes a difference.

It's really more of a moral issue not one of governance.

Well said, Conan!