Downtown Stadium Plan by May 30th

[TheArtist]

It doesn't matter. He is still barking up the wrong tree.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

It doesn't matter. He is still barking up the wrong tree.

So, a healthy dose of skepticism is "barking up the wrong tree."

Once again, the PUBLIC needs to find out details.  Why does this city insist on being so secretive with EVERYTHING?  

If the stadium is 100% privately funded, that's great... argument over.

If a TIF district comparable to what Jenks offered is going to happen, as far as I'm concerned, that's great.  Argument over.  Tie goes to something that "connects" downtown.

I brought up both examples of what Rochester, NY did to point out that city officials typically gloss over some of the finer points that could jeopardize the taxpayers.... I don't begrudge the Drillers a new ballpark.

In the summer of 2006, I visited Rochester... the last of many times.  My company had a facility there and I was looking at transferring.  The housing costs were much cheaper (than Chicagoland) and the city had a nice "feel" to it.  I got cold feet because of the unemployment, crime and the general "vibe" of the job market... and ended up moving to Tulsa.

Frontier Field is a nice downtown ballpark that's in a very comparable location in comparison to what's being proposed in the East End.  This is a downtown triple-A ballpark and the Rochester team draws over 7k per game.  And there are ZERO developments around the stadium... zero.

The soccer stadium is only a few short blocks from the ballpark (kinda like East End's proximity to OSU-Tulsa???), but happens to have no convenient parking and sits directly across the street from a very marginal area of town-- I got hit up for quarters and saw abandoned homes directly across the street from the stadium... don't know if taking your kids to a soccer game that's only a stone's throw from crack houses is a very bright idea... ?

OKC had Bricktown as a destination already in place BEFORE the ballpark was built.  The stadium enhanced the entertainment value of the area... but didn't magically cause development that wasn't already there.

two months left... the countdown continues...

[PonderInc]

Just went to the sold out Chicago White Sox vs. Texas Rangers game at the Bricktown Ballpark in OKC.  I am now more convinced than ever that we must bring the Drillers downtown.  

Thousands of people were at the ballpark, but more importantly, all the nearby restaurants/bars were PACKED before the game.  It only makes sense that downtown Tulsa could reap similar benefits with 70 home games per year, plus other events like outdoor concerts, etc.  (I believe Dave Matthews will be playing at the OKC ballpark in the coming weeks...)

What can we do to help?  Do we support an increased hotel/motel/rental car tax?  Do we support one of state bills that would return a portion of the state sales taxes to municipalities for roads?  (To help pacify the "fix the roads first" folks.) What is needed?  What can we do to help make this a done deal?

[Renaissance]

I'm glad another one sees the light.  I'm convinced that no one who has actually experienced downtown baseball can be against it.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I'm glad another one sees the light.  I'm convinced that no one who has actually experienced downtown baseball can be against it.

Much agreed.  All one has to do is look at the difference between St. Louis Cardinals games and Texas Rangers games.  The Cards continued to play in downtown St. Louis, even when it was really dead and really dangerous.  Now, downtown St. Louis is really coming along, and there is a vibrant urban environment around the new Busch Stadium.  The Rangers, on the other hand, play in an Arlington ballpark that is surrounded by parking lots.

[waterboy]

I support a downtown ballpark. Locating in Jenks is fine too. But don't risk ignoring what Ruf said. Its true. Bricktown was already popular with entertainment crowds as far back as the 80's before the stadium was built there. Partly due to the proximity of OU. Development didn't magically spring up as a result of a ballpark being built there and if we don't concurrently encourage East End development we're naive to think it wil just appear. The Jenks tif recognizes that reality. Note that there is no big increase in businesses around the Arena either as was predicted.

Great distinction Swake made about private "financing" vs private funding. I do not want to see us on the hook for a debt service arrangement that allows the Drillers to be profitable as long as the taxpayers pony up for overhead. Ignoring these two insights seems pretty dangerous.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I support a downtown ballpark. Locating in Jenks is fine too. But don't risk ignoring what Ruf said. Its true. Bricktown was already popular with entertainment crowds as far back as the 80's before the stadium was built there. Partly due to the proximity of OU. Development didn't magically spring up as a result of a ballpark being built there and if we don't concurrently encourage East End development we're naive to think it wil just appear. The Jenks tif recognizes that reality. Note that there is no big increase in businesses around the Arena either as was predicted.

Great distinction Swake made about private "financing" vs private funding. I do not want to see us on the hook for a debt service arrangement that allows the Drillers to be profitable as long as the taxpayers pony up for overhead. Ignoring these two insights seems pretty dangerous.

If I were a developer looking to do some sort of retail or residential. I would do something in the East End once a ballpark was there, over something by the Arena. The East End has a lot of potential to become a bustling urban neighborhood than the area by the Arena. The Arena is still going to be a big plus for downtown and will see some development around it, but most likely people will go from the Arena to the:Brady District, Blue Dome, East End and Greenwood areas before and afterwards.  

[jackbristow]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I support a downtown ballpark. Locating in Jenks is fine too. But don't risk ignoring what Ruf said. Its true. Bricktown was already popular with entertainment crowds as far back as the 80's before the stadium was built there. Partly due to the proximity of OU. Development didn't magically spring up as a result of a ballpark being built there and if we don't concurrently encourage East End development we're naive to think it wil just appear. The Jenks tif recognizes that reality. Note that there is no big increase in businesses around the Arena either as was predicted.

Great distinction Swake made about private "financing" vs private funding. I do not want to see us on the hook for a debt service arrangement that allows the Drillers to be profitable as long as the taxpayers pony up for overhead. Ignoring these two insights seems pretty dangerous.

To say Bricktown was popular in the 80s is quite a stretch...as is your notion that it is close in proximity to OU.

[OSU]

[/quote]

To say Bricktown was popular in the 80s is quite a stretch...as is your notion that it is close in proximity to OU.
[/quote]

He might have been referring to the medical school, which is very close.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by jackbristow

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

I support a downtown ballpark. Locating in Jenks is fine too. But don't risk ignoring what Ruf said. Its true. Bricktown was already popular with entertainment crowds as far back as the 80's before the stadium was built there. Partly due to the proximity of OU. Development didn't magically spring up as a result of a ballpark being built there and if we don't concurrently encourage East End development we're naive to think it wil just appear. The Jenks tif recognizes that reality. Note that there is no big increase in businesses around the Arena either as was predicted.

Great distinction Swake made about private "financing" vs private funding. I do not want to see us on the hook for a debt service arrangement that allows the Drillers to be profitable as long as the taxpayers pony up for overhead. Ignoring these two insights seems pretty dangerous.

To say Bricktown was popular in the 80s is quite a stretch...as is your notion that it is close in proximity to OU.

OU kids that I know of didn't start rolling up to Bricktown until around 2000.  Mid-1990s it was no more happening than Blue Dome, probably less.

[waterboy]

You think I make this crap up?[]

I was visiting Bricktown when you guys were in kinny-garten (well, maybe middle school).  Around 1986 during business meetings. Good bars and even then it had potential without the fake river. OU is a mere  (appx)19 miles away (about the same as Keystone to Tulsa). They ran party busses for years from the campus to Bricktown at least from 2000 or so. One was featured in Playboy.

The point is that there was momentum and established businesses already existing when the stadium moved. It wasn't too much of a stretch for them. Downtown wasn't completely dead and carved up into parking lots. Sandwiched on one side by Edmond with the Bronchos and on the other side OU with about 22,000 young people didn't hurt at all. Blue Dome is in place, but I don't sense any momentum like they had. IOW, the stadium wasn't taking much of a chance.

[Renaissance]

I will grant that a 2nd Street location for the stadium, so as to be closer to established bars, might have been a better choice for synergy of the 'hood.  But I think the East End site will be just fine.

And it's not like Tulsa hasn't had the downtown bar scene going for a while.  I remember 6 years ago having a couple of drinks at Arnie's before walking over to Cronies to watch Cross Canadian and Pat Green.  I know Cronies isn't there anymore, but McNellie's has come since.  Tulsa has maintained a nice bar scene downtown for at least 10 years.  The stadium and other improvements, though, should be the shot in the arm to transform it into full-on entertainment district.

[TheArtist]

Someone leaked something (it wasn't me).


http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?s=8121293

But, there is still more "interesting" news to come. Really though, sometimes the press should wait on things. Hopefully this wont mess something up.

[TulsaSooner]

In the article, it mentions hopes for a 5k or 6k seat stadium.  It would be nice to have something near the size of the Bricktown Ballpark in hopes of attracting OU-OSU games and, perhaps, Big XII tournament games.

[godboko71]

Very exciting news agree, hope this doesn't mess anything up.

I really wish kotv would turn off comments. I miss the old KOTV site, simple basically featureless just showed me the news and weather. All there "features" take you to other people's sites like what the heck. Sorry for the derailing rant.