Downtown Stadium Plan by May 30th

[SXSW]

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

Went to McNellie's last night...

It's just a hop and a skip over to this proposed site...I'm willing to admit that I probably made too big of a deal about the railroad tracks.  If we could incorporate a light rail-stop at Elgin, folks would be getting dropped right into the middle of the Ballpark area and QUITE close to Blue Dome.

Now, I'll also go on record as saying that light-rail isn't coming to Tulsa anytime in the next 10 years.

A large well-lit and well-landscaped commuter rail stop at Elgin could effectively bridge the gap between the baseball stadium/Brady and the East End/rest of downtown.  That station could be the KEY to doing that successfully.  

With the way things are setting up, downtown could have three stations: one by the ballpark/East End, one at Union Station which could be re-converted back into a train station for commuter rail/Amtrak, and one by the BOk Center/convention center.  Getting people from outlying areas to their jobs and major events would be a breeze.

[DowntownNow]

I've been a huge fan of downtown development and revitalization but I've been a lil concerned being a business owner in the IDL as to what the Mayor and the 'donors' want.  The Tulsa World published their last report a few days ago and after reading the comments, I just thought I would post what I had written and see what everyone thought of it.

Oh and the meeting at 7:30 on the June 27th is the pitch to the IDL owners for the 6.5% assessment from what the letter I received says. FYI

Posted from Tulsa World: Play Ball 6/23/08

DowntownNow,   (6/25/2008 11:09:34 AM)
Perhaps the best questions to ask are the following:

1 - How did a stadium that was projected to cost $30-35 million (this was for the ball park only as defined by Chuck Lamson at the YPros presentation) jump to $60+ Million. What is the rest of the money for and who does it benefit?

2 - Money was already spent on presentation and planning for the east end site between 4th & 6th and yet, that site is apparently out of possibility and they are looking at other sites. Why can't the mayor get the committments she needs in place before hand?

3 - Who are these 'donors' and what do they get out of all of this? Funny how none have been mentioned.

4 - If a ball park (the stadium itself) only costs $30-35 Million (including reasonable cost for the land they need for just the park) and they have that donation committment from the 'donors', what does the Mayor need with the other $25-30 Million? What is it buying and how is it benefitting the city at large? What are the 'donors' really donating if that extra money is needed?

5 - Is the Mayor really promoting the growth of the city at large or the select few that will benefit from the assessment, its monies, a new ball park and whatever else is being being planned for the extra monies that struggling downtown businesses will be forced to contribute?

6 - What benefit do the companies that are located in downtown yet provide services perphaps more nationwide get out of this? They say it will increase business for all in the IDL but it may benefit only those businesses that caer to the needs of the ball park goer...the restaurants, the clubs and the parking lots. It does nothing for the energy companies, the law firms, the architects, the doctors, etc etc that will also be forced to pay.

While its not a tax per se, it is a fee that - while it simply continues after the expiration of the original - is a fee Im sure downtown businesses were hoping to be done with and could put into their own growth and expansions that would benefit the city but leaving that growth in their own hands

There are many in downtown that want to see it grow and want to see businesses boom...we just need the city to stay out of how and where we choose to spend our money. As soon as you get the city to stop being a hinderance and move towards being a help for small businesses, you might just see that larger committment and growth but without passed on expense to others.
DowntownNow,   (6/25/2008 11:24:26 AM)
Oh yeah...anyone else notice that one of the consulting groups that was helping with this ball park idea still hasnt anted up the report that was promised to help our fair city grow and market itself?

Different topic I know but since some dont want to cover the development...

Jones Lang LaSalle has had direct conversations and helped with this ball park fiasco. This is a company that by all accounts has failed to make good on the $375,000 contract given them to report to the City (and not just the Mayor and her staff) on what can be done with lots of city properties sitting vacant. These properties that could be used by developers and investors to help transform Tulsa.

Sure they have made a lil website, sure they have put out a request for proposals for one of em...but who else thinks its funny that an outside firm, hired at a good rate, has yet to issue and make public the promised report?

Who else feels its funny that while we have great professional businesses that do that very sort of thing right in here Tulsa, they were by-passed for an outside firm with no knowlegde of Tulsa?

Who also feels slighted by the fact that this Jones Lang LaSalle is also the outfit that has the exclusive right to broker these lands? They get a commission but where and how do the local brokers get to play and who pays them? If you read carefully, you see that any broker other than JLL has to find their own commission in the deals they bring...how arrogant, how misguided and how insulting this is to Tulsans.

But this is a Mayor that believes in this city and the contributions of its citizens...just not enough to entrust them or give them a fair shake. I guess in all this the biggest quesiton really is....is Mayor Kathy Taylor the mayor of the City of Tulsa or the Mayor of whoever pays to play and is the next big contributor to her re-election campaign?

Ask yourselves Tulsans...

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

Went to McNellie's last night...

It's just a hop and a skip over to this proposed site...I'm willing to admit that I probably made too big of a deal about the railroad tracks.  If we could incorporate a light rail-stop at Elgin, folks would be getting dropped right into the middle of the Ballpark area and QUITE close to Blue Dome.

Now, I'll also go on record as saying that light-rail isn't coming to Tulsa anytime in the next 10 years.

A large well-lit and well-landscaped commuter rail stop at Elgin could effectively bridge the gap between the baseball stadium/Brady and the East End/rest of downtown.  That station could be the KEY to doing that successfully.  

With the way things are setting up, downtown could have three stations: one by the ballpark/East End, one at Union Station which could be re-converted back into a train station for commuter rail/Amtrak, and one by the BOk Center/convention center.  Getting people from outlying areas to their jobs and major events would be a breeze.

Good idea, but I still like my streetcar idea: http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10368&whichpage=2

Increased public transportation + broader public transportation market + tourist appeal + accessibility between all of Tulsa's entertainment districts = Streetcars!

[sgrizzle]

That faces alot more south than I imagined.

[BierGarten]

One of my more favorite Jack Henderson quotes (from this morning's Tulsa World article):

"This is a homerun for everyone," City Councilor Jack Henderson said about the Greenwood site. "It's a fit that helps the north community."

[FOTD]

Jack's almost correct....IT'S A GRAND SLAM!!!!!

[TulsaPride]

This is wonderful news. Hopefully it becomes a reality. Way to go Tulsa!

[Wrinkle]

Not that it necessarily applies, but seems what's good for the National League might be good for all of baseball.

quote: Major League Baseball clearly states in rule 1.04 "THE PLAYING FIELD: It is desirable that the line from home base through the pitchers plate to second base shall run East Northeast."

REF: Ballpark Orientations

I would imagine this becomes a larger issue if day games are played, as well as for any other possible uses of the facility during daylight.

IAC, this layout has no views of downtown, as was once considered the zoom reason for being in the downtown area.

It'd be interesting to know what precipitated the move to the Brady District almost overnight.

[cannon_fodder]

Not complaining here, just curious... but why did they orientate it that way?  

The only thing I can think of is to avoid the evening sun in the batters eyes.  Which makes sense.  But it loses half the view of downtown.

I look forward to seeing the details of the plan hatched out.

[edit]
The E by NE orientation would have us looking over the I-244 elevated highway as the focal point.  I'm not a big fan.  

Plus, there are many parks that don't follow that orientation.  Several will share our orientation including:

Cincinnati
Milwaukee
Pittsburgh
Chicago White Sox
Detroit
and the Rangers

So I wouldn't consider that a huge negative.  But I saw none orientated to the SW... so probably no hope for a perfect skyline shot.
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/stadium/ballpark_NSEW_NL.shtml
[/edit]

[AVERAGE JOE]

First of all, the World doesn't have it exactly right. It won't be oriented quite that north-south. Home plate will be in the northwest part of the site.

We've been over this and over this. Earlier in this thread, in fact. Despite anything that MLB suggests, ballparks simply need to face east and not west. You can't have the setting sun in the face of the batter trying to hit a 90mph fastball. Whether home plate is in the southwest (Rockies), northwest (Rangers) or due west (Yankees) part of the site is irrelevant -- major league parks face a number of directions, but all face the east.

If the stadium had been oriented with home plate in the southwest corner of the stadium, the entire stands would face away from the skyline. With the proposed orientation, the seats down the third base line face the skyline. btw, that's a nice benefit of a downtown stadium, but not the primary reason for moving the stadium. It's the economic development opportunities.

[FOTD]

It's fan oriented.....visual of skyline for fans.....also, the article in TulsaWhirled makes it clear the stadium will be utilized for other activities.....

Here come the hecklers? Bet they strike out.

[TheArtist]

From the article... sounds like they snagged the Mickey Mantle museum.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

From the article... sounds like they snagged the Mickey Mantle museum.

That would be good if a real opportunity didn't just fly by us on the way to OKC for once. I am glad Ruben and JAck saw this for the great thing it is.

Also for wrinkle, it is far from overnight. That location was posted her on this forum almost a month ago. It has been months since anything official even mentioned the east village end.

[cannon_fodder]

Here is a link to the Street view of the area.  The entire East stands would have a good view of downtown.  But my thoughts of a perfect downtown simply can't happen given the orientation in either the Brady nor East Village locations.

Which I am perfectly willing to accept.  

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Cameron+St.+%26+Elgin,+Tulsa,+OK&ie=UTF8&ll=36.163847,-95.986626&spn=0.012092,0.018797&z=16&layer=c&cbll=36.160737,-95.987976&panoid=8QzivEfCVGvRJo0W0KW7hQ&cbp=1,160.81122805645316,,0,-4.3972798895017515

BUT... "walking" around the area lets hope that new development takes place.  Else we'd have a not-so interesting walk through nothingness to get anywhere.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by DowntownNow


Who also feels slighted by the fact that this Jones Lang LaSalle is also the outfit that has the exclusive right to broker these lands? They get a commission but where and how do the local brokers get to play and who pays them? If you read carefully, you see that any broker other than JLL has to find their own commission in the deals they bring...how arrogant, how misguided and how insulting this is to Tulsans.

Fairly similar to the bonuses for Staubach and Co. if the Borg Cube deal happened.  What incentive did that create for objectivity in their "study"?

A lot of local talent gets by-passed in favor of national firms who, IMO, don't necessarily do anything different nor bring better ideas to the table than Tulsa natives.

It's a certain arrogance and I do think some of our leaders believe the rest of us are a bunch of hayseeds who aren't capable of having a great vision for Tulsa.  I don't think it's the Mayor per se, but probably some people she and others in elected and high bureaucrat positions listen to who influence a lot of the out-sourcing.