Kingspointe Villagers no longer beg for food

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

opening a dining establishment will make you get a divorce and screw your partner.
I was it was a Trader Joe's or a Whole Food's.
Andale's was dead last Friday night at 8:30pm....their clock is ticking.

Or screw your manager, get caught by your spouse, and get divorced.  I've heard that tale once or twice amongst legendary restaurateurs in Tulsa.

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by ARGUS

opening a dining establishment will make you get a divorce and screw your partner.
I was it was a Trader Joe's or a Whole Food's.
Andale's was dead last Friday night at 8:30pm....their clock is ticking.

Or screw your manager, get caught by your spouse, and get divorced.  I've heard that tale once or twice amongst legendary restaurateurs in Tulsa.

Hehe...Charlie Mitchell's anyone?

[ARGUS]

he he D'Novo anyone?

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

The Market, was not at all like Pettys. You can go to Pettys and get your basic groceries and some high end unique stuff. The Market didnt have you basic grocery store supplies. It was almost all niche and unique things, plus a lot of ready made product that was expensive. I remember seeing the food counter and knowing that they werent going to sell even a quarter of that every day. That was a looot of money being lost. I remember trying to find some fruit juice for instance. They didnt have your ocean spray or anything like that. Pettys does. All the Market had was odd ball racks of things I had never heard of in glass bottles. Thats great fun to have and I can see people buying it. But there again it wasnt a place where you could go and actually get real groceries plus something "unique and interesting" It was all "unique and interesting". So you would have to want to make a special trip there for that reason. Not to get your groceris for the week.

I went to a really nice "high end" grocery store when I was in Tucson. It had the great decor, stone walls, stained concrete floors, fountains, displays on antique furniture, sleek stylish modern displays, high end wine section part of which looked like an old wine cellar,  ready made food and dessert counters, eating area that also had a nice outdoor section, it had unique items but also had your basic everyday products and needs at the same price you would find anywhere else.  You could do your usual shopping there and treat yourself to something special, shopping experience wise and food wise as well.

Are you referring to "world market" by chance??

[tulsa1603]

I thought The Market was wildly popular, but poorly run?  They were EVICTED for not paying their rent, they didn't go out of business due to lack of business.  Everytime I went there they had a crowd.  And the entire chain went belly-up shortly thereafter from what I remember.  I think if this one has proper, well managed backing, it should do OK.

[safetyguy]

[/quote]

Are you referring to "world market" by chance??
[/quote]

World Market is a totally different place.
Wish we had one in the area though... I have been to them before. They have some interesting stuff.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Nine months to a year is what I give it.  Their demographic would be better-served somewhere further to the south or close to Utica Square.

So far Kings Pointe has been the kiss of death for quite a few businesses.  Great traffic count, great pop numbers, just has not translated to great business with the exception of a few stores.

no, Bumgarner will tell you he couldn't get a Whole Foods at 101st/Memorial so south won't work either.

Even the gourmet place in the mall with EXTREMELY high foot traffic failed.

Only places like the Stock Pot which primarily sell gourmat utensils can survive.  This is the land of Frito Pie....people won't shell for gourmet food.

You're mixing cause/effect with correlation.  Whole Foods didn't skip over south Tulsa because of demographic issues, it was because of Oklahoma's archaic evangelical-catered liquor laws.  Grocery stores only make a 2% margin on most products.  However, specialty products, especially wine, yield a much higher margin.  Whole Foods is only in Tulsa now because they own Wild Oats.  Hopefully, the Wild Oats acquisition will show Whole Foods execs. that the upscale/organic grocery store business is viable in Oklahoma.

And as for the cooking store in the mall- there are two factors that likely contributed to its decline:
1) Increased high-end product lines at traditional grocery stores.  Why spend $10 on specialty brownie mix at Le Gourmet Chef, when you can buy the same thing at Super Target for $6.50?  Traditional grocery stores, and even Wal-Marts are have been carrying more "upscale" products and revamping into a new upscale image for the last couple of years.  Look at the new Wal-Mart on 111th and Memorial, it's ten times nicer than any other Wal-Mart in Tulsa.  A snobby soccer mom doesn't have to be embarrassed about pulling her BMW SUV into the WM parking lot anymore.  In reality, it's still a Wal-Mart, but many people perceive it to be different.

2) Retailers logged some of their worst quarters in over a decade last year.  Some of the hardest hit businesses were those that sell exclusively high-end specialty goods.  Amid fears of recession, many consumers just aren't buying that $12 Jamaican steak marinade, for example.

Reason 1 and 2 are related in that the demand for specialty food products still exists to a high degree.  However, fears of recession may cause people to pass by Le Gourmet Chef and take the trouble to stop at Food Pyramid on the way home to buy their favorite specialty products.

As for D'Novo, it may work, especially if the restaurants are well received.  This may not be the best time to open an upscale grocery store, as people are more likely to compare prices with traditional grocers.  It will all come down to the competence of management and the effectiveness of marketing.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


Even the gourmet place in the mall with EXTREMELY high foot traffic failed.

I bet rent prices pushed them out of business. The mall is consistently shuffling worthwhile stores out for another multigap, abercrombie, or sephora.

[joiei]

quote:


You're mixing cause/effect with correlation.  Whole Foods didn't skip over south Tulsa because of demographic issues, it was because of Oklahoma's archaic evangelical-catered liquor laws.  Grocery stores only make a 2% margin on most products.  However, specialty products, especially wine, yield a much higher margin.  Whole Foods is only in Tulsa now because they own Wild Oats.  Hopefully, the Wild Oats acquisition will show Whole Foods execs. that the upscale/organic grocery store business is viable in Oklahoma.

And as for the cooking store in the mall- there are two factors that likely contributed to its decline:
1) Increased high-end product lines at traditional grocery stores.  Why spend $10 on specialty brownie mix at Le Gourmet Chef, when you can buy the same thing at Super Target for $6.50?  Traditional grocery stores, and even Wal-Marts are have been carrying more "upscale" products and revamping into a new upscale image for the last couple of years.  Look at the new Wal-Mart on 111th and Memorial, it's ten times nicer than any other Wal-Mart in Tulsa.  A snobby soccer mom doesn't have to be embarrassed about pulling her BMW SUV into the WM parking lot anymore.  In reality, it's still a Wal-Mart, but many people perceive it to be different.

2) Retailers logged some of their worst quarters in over a decade last year.  Some of the hardest hit businesses were those that sell exclusively high-end specialty goods.  Amid fears of recession, many consumers just aren't buying that $12 Jamaican steak marinade, for example.

Reason 1 and 2 are related in that the demand for specialty food products still exists to a high degree.  However, fears of recession may cause people to pass by Le Gourmet Chef and take the trouble to stop at Food Pyramid on the way home to buy their favorite specialty products.

As for D'Novo, it may work, especially if the restaurants are well received.  This may not be the best time to open an upscale grocery store, as people are more likely to compare prices with traditional grocers.  It will all come down to the competence of management and the effectiveness of marketing.

You are right that Whole Paycheck and Trader Joe's will not appear in Oklahoma until the sale of wine and liquor is premitted in grocery stores.  

As for high end product lines, Petty's and Williams Sonoma seem to be doing very well.  Target and Walmart have companies create lesser quality products that they sell for a lesser amount trying to create an atmosphere of exclusevity at a cheap price.  Target is much more successful than Walmart in this endeavor.
I do not know the gourmet store that was in the mall.  I haven't been to the mall in over 3 years.  Is the Savory Chef still open?  They are right up there pricewise on their foodstuffs.

[danno]

The Market was cool, but I knew from day one that the place wouldn't make it. I mean, this IS Tulsa, guys. The bakery and deli were amazing with the different varieties of fancy foods, and they even had gelato (with about 20 different varieties). The Kobe beef burgers that were cooked to order were really good and not that expensive. It was also nice to have the liquor store built right into the place, so when shoppers were exiting the market they could walk through the sliding doors and get wine and spirits. However, like someone mentioned earlier, always seemed weird to me that the deli counters were packed with so many items that could not possibly be sold before spoilage occured. Its just not possible to sell a small bathtub of seafood salad in a timely manner-especially at those prices. They also had too many employees that were probably underpaid and overworked.

[Conan71]

I was at Kings Pointe last night.  D'Novo looked dark at 8pm.

Dead, finally?

Took a couple of years longer than I predicted, and Andale's looked like they had a good crowd.  Anyone tried Dickey's yet?

[Teatownclown]

Yes. Been dead for over a month.

Is Dickey's open? They are out of Texas. I doubt it's hickory.

Andoles is the worst.

KP is a c- redevelopment project.

The s/w corner in front of the hotel is back on the burner. LOI working....

[Conan71]

Yes. Been dead for over a month.

Is Dickey's open? They are out of Texas. I doubt it's hickory.

Andoles is the worst.

KP is a c- redevelopment project.

The s/w corner in front of the hotel is back on the burner. LOI working....

No idea if Dickey's is open yet.  That was the first time I saw the sign.  Still not sure how D'Novo stayed open as long as it did.  Was Kivisto still pumping someone something into it?

[Teatownclown]

Whatever happened to Anna Holeinher?

I hear TK is hanging out at his daughters gallery in Chi Town.....

[Patrick]

The s/w corner in front of the hotel is back on the burner. LOI working....

Interesting, didn't know something was planned.  What kind of development?