New Jail Pact- Deadline Looms

[Wilbur]

If something isn't worked out here, the citizens of this city will be the big losers.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080924_11_hr637816

Our elected officials are arguing over who gets to spend more money while law enforcement efforts take a back seat.  That's pathetic!

Read that Tulsa World article closely and understand what is being said if an agreement is not worked out.

[Wilbur]

Still no better.

Mediation takes two sides.  A one sided argument gets no place.

Not only will this get more expensive for everyone, a law suit to sue ourselves just spends more money.  Ain't gov'ment great?  Who's looking out for us citizens?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20081127_11_A1_hCityc958332

[RecycleMichael]

Let me be sure I am getting this right...the city owns this big medium security place just west of downtown. They gave it free rent to the county who then rented it out to a county authority who then sublet part of it to a contractor to keep inmates.

The missing part of the story is how much annual rent could be received from the Adult Detention Center on Charles Page.

Is the rent enough to be $1.6 million dollars? That would be $133,000 a month.  

What would it cost for the county to build their own facility?

Why do some prisoners stay in the county jail just north of the arena and other prisoners stay in this facility over by the river?

Why does the county run one facility and contract out the other?

Sorry to ask so many questions...I just am ignorant on this issue. I just probably need to get arrested more so I can make up my own mind...

[shadows]

Lets see, the Queen and her Court does not want to divi-up any money that is considered because of increased inflation, needed for the stabilization of the funding of a joint venture it formed to build and operate the jail, that has been very controversial in operation since the day pre-subscribed bond money was made available.   Soon as Tulsa secedes from Oklahoma, and the Indian Nations, forming another county or state, we will be able to form another Trust (or find one in the trash basket) buying the former county of Tulsa out, with the revenue derived from the finds paid by the occupants of the jail.  

The drawback would be someone would have to account for the fine monies that is collected dedicated to payoff the bonds.  

[RecycleMichael]

Wrong again shadows.

The county owns and operates the jail. The city (or Queen and her court...as you have called the Mayor and the council) did not form "a joint venture" to build a jail.

It must be great to not be bound by actual facts in your statements.

[Wilbur]

Someone is getting red in the face, and it looks like a county commissioner.  Why?  Because his side of the argument, which is now out in the paper, looks terribly one sided for the county as they try to make even more profit off the jail then they're already making.  And that wasn't supposed to be known!

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081203_11_0_Thecit537862

http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=61&articleid=20081203_61_A18_Teodso156492

[carltonplace]

When the jail was proposed the public perception was that it was a replacement for the existing jail system. No one could have foreseen that the relationship between the city and the county would break down as badly as they have.

Part of Smaligo's argument is that all of the other Tulsa county municipalities have their own jails that they use for their offenders. That's great, but Tulsa was told this would be our new permanent jail. Does anyone know how many inmates Tulsa sends to Moss? Do we have enough room for these people if we kick the county out of our pre-existing city facilities?

I say let the county have their jail. Let's move out and vote to end the City of Tulsa's portion of the tax. Maybe Smaligo can get his constituents in Owasso to spring for a new jail to be built in their downtown.

In any regard I hope this is the first thing on Karen Keith's agenda.

[pmcalk]

City has filed suit against the county:

quote:Tulsa County has failed to live up to the representations it made to the citizens of Tulsa regarding the 1995 permanent jail tax, a lawsuit filed by the city of Tulsa on Thursday alleges.

"The county proposed a sales tax in 1995 that the city fully supported based on the county's promise that the jail tax would relieve the city of its obligation to pay jail operating costs," the lawsuit, filed in Tulsa County District Court, states.

The city's suit also accuses Tulsa County Sheriff Stanley Glanz of interfering with negotiations between the city and county over a new jail agreement to create "more money-making opportunities for himself and the county."

"Sheriff Glanz has consistently applied pressure to the (Board of County Commissioners) and other county officials, urging dramatic changes to and substantial fee increases in the renewed jail system agreement," the lawsuit alleges.

The lawsuit seeks a permanent injunction preventing the county from charging the city a direct fee to house its inmates in the Tulsa Jail.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20081212_16_A1_TulsaC815242

[Wilbur]

Recall the sales tax dedicated to the jail, tell Tulsa County to get their own Adult Detention Center, communications center, records center, ...., then Tulsa can pay $54 per prisoner.

Tulsa County claims other cities have their own jail.  True.  Other counties also have their own communications centers, records centers, ......  I guess fair is fair.

[nsugrad_05]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Recall the sales tax dedicated to the jail, tell Tulsa County to get their own Adult Detention Center, communications center, records center, ...., then Tulsa can pay $54 per prisoner.

Tulsa County claims other cities have their own jail.  True.  Other counties also have their own communications centers, records centers, ......  I guess fair is fair.

Wilbur, your right fair is fair. The county has offered the city 27 beds without charging them a dime as an offset for all of those services. If the city doesnt want to do that, then the county has handeled its own communicaitons before and can likely do it again.

I live in unincorporated Tulsa County. Why should part of my taxes go to pay for city iof Tulsa inmates. The people in Glenpool, Jenks, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Owasso, Collinsville, Skiatook, and Sperry dont expect me to help pay for theirs, so why should I help pay for Tulsa's?

[nsugrad_05]

Carlton "That's great, but Tulsa was told this would be our new permanent jail."

The only thing that was voted on was a County wide sales tax to build and operate a County jail. There was no mention on the ballot of a city-county jail. There was an contract between the city and the county regarding jail operations at that time that was renewed and expired in July of this year.

If the people and the leaders of Tulsa thought that the new jail was going to permanently house city prisoners then the contract should have been written that way. Since it was not, then I guess you should be mad at city leaders who failed to do so, not the county.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by nsugrad_05


I live in unincorporated Tulsa County. Why should part of my taxes go to pay for city iof Tulsa inmates. The people in Glenpool, Jenks, Bixby, Broken Arrow, Owasso, Collinsville, Skiatook, and Sperry dont expect me to help pay for theirs, so why should I help pay for Tulsa's?

Because Tulsa provides free services to the County. And there are more Tulsans in Tulsa County than there are not Tulsans. We pay more of the tax that supports the jail in the first place.

I think the most fair thing to do would be for Tulsa to stop providing free services to the county and for the county to charge all cities the DOC rate for every inmate who is in the county jail more than six hours or so and a nominal fee for those who are housed for less than that time.

Those free inmates, btw, are worth only about $500,000..estimates I've seen for city services provided to the county at no charge are much higher than that.

[nsugrad_05]

So basically because more people live in the city limits of Tulsa then Tulsa should be given preferential treatment? Everyone in the county pays the same % on the sales tax.

I am not aware of any service that the city provides for free. The city allows the county use the old city jail facility for a court holding area, but there is no service provided by the city that's free of charge.

Anyway, having read the lawsuit, to a regular guy I dont see any legal reason that requires the county to hold city inmates. This lawsuit will be good for Mr. Wogelmouth financially, but I bet dollars to donuts that the city loses.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by nsugrad_05

So basically because more people live in the city limits of Tulsa then Tulsa should be given preferential treatment? Everyone in the county pays the same % on the sales tax.

I am not aware of any service that the city provides for free. The city allows the county use the old city jail facility for a court holding area, but there is no service provided by the city that's free of charge.

Anyway, having read the lawsuit, to a regular guy I dont see any legal reason that requires the county to hold city inmates. This lawsuit will be good for Mr. Wogelmouth financially, but I bet dollars to donuts that the city loses.

The majority of those paying the Jail Tax are city of Tulsa residents, yet people arrested in the city are likely done by City PD who then have to pay, again, to keep them.

The County has thousands of feet in office space for free, the county used the Tulsa police dispatch services and well as TRACIS for free. The total asked for by the city last time was a cash equivalent of a little over $500,000 a year. The city lawyers proposed cutting off all the free things the city gives the county and it would cost them Millions.

[nsugrad_05]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by nsugrad_05

So basically because more people live in the city limits of Tulsa then Tulsa should be given preferential treatment? Everyone in the county pays the same % on the sales tax.

I am not aware of any service that the city provides for free. The city allows the county use the old city jail facility for a court holding area, but there is no service provided by the city that's free of charge.

Anyway, having read the lawsuit, to a regular guy I dont see any legal reason that requires the county to hold city inmates. This lawsuit will be good for Mr. Wogelmouth financially, but I bet dollars to donuts that the city loses.

The majority of those paying the Jail Tax are city of Tulsa residents, yet people arrested in the city are likely done by City PD who then have to pay, again, to keep them.

The County has thousands of feet in office space for free, the county used the Tulsa police dispatch services and well as TRACIS for free. The total asked for by the city last time was a cash equivalent of a little over $500,000 a year. The city lawyers proposed cutting off all the free things the city gives the county and it would cost them Millions.

The dispatch and records (TRACIS) is on its own contract that the county pays for. I think it is around 1,000,000 per year. The county and the city of Catoosa each share the cost of the regional dispatch.

The only thing the county gets without paying money for is the 3rd floor of the city courts building that is used for holding inmates going to court.