Jenks teens might be charged with identity theft

[TUalum0982]

http://www.ktul.com/news/stories/0208/496185.html

If your kids pull-off pranks on the internet there could be serious consequences. 4 students are suspended after putting-up fake "myspace pages".  
         
Those pages are insulting to Jenks teachers and staff.

Police say the students may have to go to court,and even possibly jail. Myspace has already taken the pages down. But you can see here, the site is an open forum. In this case, the students put up spiteful comments and even invited other students to give their opinions.

Unless your profile is set to private, Myspace allows anyone to see almost anything you decide to post.

At Jenks Middle school, four students could now face very serious consequences. The school's spokesperson tells us, over the weekend, the students created four myspace pages, three of them under a teacher's name, the fourth, under an administrator's.

Each one had hateful comments and offensive images. They also encouraged other students to post their opinions. Tara Thompson with Jenks Schools says what was posted on the site was hurtful.

"Ya know the old phrase sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Nothing could be more farther from the truth because words do hurt."

Just the thought of putting jokes and insults up like that, for the whole world to see, disgusts both parents and school staff. What the kids may not have realized--that behavior could get them arrested. Campus Police Chief Perry Marler.

"If they in fact said they were a teacher, that is identity theft."

And if not criminal charges, the victims could file a civil lawsuit.

In this case, the school staff tells us, the teachers may not even take legal action. They say, they don't want to ruin the students' future. So far, they're suspended---the staff doesn't know for how long---it depends on the results of a police investigation.

Tulsa police are leading the investigation. To protect the students and teachers, the school won't release any names. They say, more kids could be involved.

If you have any information, you're asked to call Jenks middle school at 918-299-4415, extension 53-hundred. The school district was notified about the pages last Monday.

Now let's be honest.  I don't see how they this could even remotely be considered identity theft.  It was a harmless prank amongst teenagers.  They did not assume the identity of the teacher, they didn't steal their SSN #'s, credit card numbers, say they were this person or try to get credit cards in these peoples names.  They simply posted pictures that were probably readily available fromt the jenks public schools website and made some rude/nasty comments.  If they did this on school computers and on class time, I can understand why they should be suspended.  But criminal charges??   Once again, Jenks Campus Police trying to flex their muscle over something really really petty IMO.

[cannon_fodder]

+1

What isn't clear though, is if the kids pretended to BE the teachers.  There could be some harm if they posted a page as "Mr. Smith" and had spiteful or inappropriate posts made under his name.  In that instance teacher Mr. Smith might be forced to deny the page was his and that he really doesn't "oogle the Sophomores" or whatever they decided to post.

As I can see that causing real problems, I would have an issue with it.  HOWEVER, it seems more of an ethical/school issue than a legal one.  Will I go to jail if I make a post under someone elses' name?

By the way, I'm sleeping with Robby Bell.

Love,

Randy Miller

[Renaissance]

This is not illegal.  It's bad behavior, but it's the internet equivalent of doing a cruel impression on the playground.  These kids need to hire a lawyer and shut down those idle threats--it won't take much of an attorney to tell this "Campus Police Chief" just how much **** he's full of.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

+1

What isn't clear though, is if the kids pretended to BE the teachers.  There could be some harm if they posted a page as "Mr. Smith" and had spiteful or inappropriate posts made under his name.  In that instance teacher Mr. Smith might be forced to deny the page was his and that he really doesn't "oogle the Sophomores" or whatever they decided to post.

As I can see that causing real problems, I would have an issue with it.  HOWEVER, it seems more of an ethical/school issue than a legal one.  Will I go to jail if I make a post under someone elses' name?

By the way, I'm sleeping with Robby Bell.

Love,

Randy Miller

my point exactly.  Now the teacher might have a case in civil court for slander or defamation but definitely not "identity theft".  I can't believe the tulsa police dept is actually doing an investigation for "identity theft" for this.  They should know better.  I wish these kids the best as this could affect the rest of their lives over some harmless prank.

[Wilbur]

Apparently Floyd and TUalum0982 have far more inside information then the rest of us to determine no crime has been committed.

Please!  Tell us how you know more then the rest of us?  What first hand information do you have that says the police are wasting their time and no crime has been committed?  

Or, are you like the rest of us and only going based on what you read in the press.  We all know how reliable they can be.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Apparently Floyd and TUalum0982 have far more inside information then the rest of us to determine no crime has been committed.

Please!  Tell us how you know more then the rest of us?  What first hand information do you have that says the police are wasting their time and no crime has been committed?  

Or, are you like the rest of us and only going based on what you read in the press.  We all know how reliable they can be.

Pow right in the kisser....Good work...

[HoneySuckle]

I know all schools have their bad apples, but it seems like Jenks tend to attract many of these.  Why is that?  Spoiled, rich kids?

I work at Union and we have our share, but I honestly here more problems with the kids from Jenks.  

There was another bunch of kids from Jenks that was involved in shop lifting at Kohls last year.  Another lot involved in drugs, and some were even thrown in jail for a few days.  One recently stole his grandmother's credit card.  

[sleepyhead]

Yeah, I know there's no such law against people who write awkward stuffs about people aside from the things they wrote. I'm not quite sure what is it called.
But this is a free country right?

_________________________________
CAUTION: Blind Man Driving!
honda odyssey /
fuel injectors

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Apparently Floyd and TUalum0982 have far more inside information then the rest of us to determine no crime has been committed.

Please!  Tell us how you know more then the rest of us?  What first hand information do you have that says the police are wasting their time and no crime has been committed?  

Or, are you like the rest of us and only going based on what you read in the press.  We all know how reliable they can be.

here we go again.  I love arguing law and such with you.  The Tulsa World is reporting that they didn't do this at school or on school time, so how in the world does the school have the authority to suspend these students?  

Here are some definition of identity theft that I found from different websites:

"Identity theft is a crime in which an imposter obtains key pieces of personal information, such as Social Security or driver's license numbers, in order to impersonate someone else. The information can be used to obtain credit, merchandise, and services in the name of the victim, or to provide the thief with false credentials."

"Identity theft involves acquiring key pieces of someone's identifying information, such as name, address, date of birth, Social Security number, and mother's maiden name in order to commit fraud."

webster's dictionary defines it as "the illegal use of someone else's personal information (as a Social Security number) in order to obtain money or credit".  

So once again, tell me how Jenks Admin has the authority to suspend kids when it wasnt involving school computers, school time?  Guess we should charge all these political cartoonists as well!

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Apparently Floyd and TUalum0982 have far more inside information then the rest of us to determine no crime has been committed.

Please!  Tell us how you know more then the rest of us?  What first hand information do you have that says the police are wasting their time and no crime has been committed?  

Or, are you like the rest of us and only going based on what you read in the press.  We all know how reliable they can be.

here we go again.  I love arguing law and such with you.  The Tulsa World is reporting that they didn't do this at school or on school time, so how in the world does the school have the authority to suspend these students?  

Here are some definition of identity theft that I found from different websites:

"Identity theft is a crime in which an imposter obtains key pieces of personal information, such as Social Security or driver's license numbers, in order to impersonate someone else. The information can be used to obtain credit, merchandise, and services in the name of the victim, or to provide the thief with false credentials."

"Identity theft involves acquiring key pieces of someone's identifying information, such as name, address, date of birth, Social Security number, and mother's maiden name in order to commit fraud."

webster's dictionary defines it as "the illegal use of someone else's personal information (as a Social Security number) in order to obtain money or credit".  

So once again, tell me how Jenks Admin has the authority to suspend kids when it wasnt involving school computers, school time?  Guess we should charge all these political cartoonists as well!

quote: Now let's be honest. I don't see how they this could even remotely be considered identity theft. It was a harmless prank amongst teenagers. They did not assume the identity of the teacher, they didn't steal their SSN #'s, credit card numbers, say they were this person or try to get credit cards in these peoples names. They simply posted pictures that were probably readily available fromt the jenks public schools website and made some rude/nasty comments. If they did this on school computers and on class time, I can understand why they should be suspended. But criminal charges?? Once again, Jenks Campus Police trying to flex their muscle over something really really petty IMO.

quote: my point exactly. Now the teacher might have a case in civil court for slander or defamation but definitely not "identity theft". I can't believe the tulsa police dept is actually doing an investigation for "identity theft" for this. They should know better. I wish these kids the best as this could affect the rest of their lives over some harmless prank.

Quotes from both of your posts are listed above.  Tell me where you complain the school has no right to suspend a student.  In each post you complain police are investigating.

When victims report, what they believe, are crimes to police, those victims expect some sort of effort on behalf of law enforcement to make an initial investigation into their claims, not just drop it like a hot potato based on a newspaper article.  

Police don't determine if a crime has been committed or not.  They conduct an investigation and turn over their findings to the DA's Office, who ultimately makes that determination.

I will speculate here (and I admit I have no personal knowledge of this case), I suspect the school requested an investigation from police.  It appears if you were police chief, your response would have been "stuff it."

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Apparently Floyd and TUalum0982 have far more inside information then the rest of us to determine no crime has been committed.

Please!  Tell us how you know more then the rest of us?  What first hand information do you have that says the police are wasting their time and no crime has been committed?  

Or, are you like the rest of us and only going based on what you read in the press.  We all know how reliable they can be.

here we go again.  I love arguing law and such with you.  The Tulsa World is reporting that they didn't do this at school or on school time, so how in the world does the school have the authority to suspend these students?  

Here are some definition of identity theft that I found from different websites:

"Identity theft is a crime in which an imposter obtains key pieces of personal information, such as Social Security or driver's license numbers, in order to impersonate someone else. The information can be used to obtain credit, merchandise, and services in the name of the victim, or to provide the thief with false credentials."

"Identity theft involves acquiring key pieces of someone's identifying information, such as name, address, date of birth, Social Security number, and mother's maiden name in order to commit fraud."

webster's dictionary defines it as "the illegal use of someone else's personal information (as a Social Security number) in order to obtain money or credit".  

So once again, tell me how Jenks Admin has the authority to suspend kids when it wasnt involving school computers, school time?  Guess we should charge all these political cartoonists as well!

quote: Now let's be honest. I don't see how they this could even remotely be considered identity theft. It was a harmless prank amongst teenagers. They did not assume the identity of the teacher, they didn't steal their SSN #'s, credit card numbers, say they were this person or try to get credit cards in these peoples names. They simply posted pictures that were probably readily available fromt the jenks public schools website and made some rude/nasty comments. If they did this on school computers and on class time, I can understand why they should be suspended. But criminal charges?? Once again, Jenks Campus Police trying to flex their muscle over something really really petty IMO.

quote: my point exactly. Now the teacher might have a case in civil court for slander or defamation but definitely not "identity theft". I can't believe the tulsa police dept is actually doing an investigation for "identity theft" for this. They should know better. I wish these kids the best as this could affect the rest of their lives over some harmless prank.

Quotes from both of your posts are listed above.  Tell me where you complain the school has no right to suspend a student.  In each post you complain police are investigating.

When victims report, what they believe, are crimes to police, those victims expect some sort of effort on behalf of law enforcement to make an initial investigation into their claims, not just drop it like a hot potato based on a newspaper article.  

Police don't determine if a crime has been committed or not.  They conduct an investigation and turn over their findings to the DA's Office, who ultimately makes that determination.

I will speculate here (and I admit I have no personal knowledge of this case), I suspect the school requested an investigation from police.  It appears if you were police chief, your response would have been "stuff it."

you are correct.  The "victim's" didn't ask for the investigation.  The jenks campus police did.  So once again, I ask....how is this even being investigated as "identity theft" and how in the world does the jenks admin have the authority to suspend these kids when it was not done using school property and was not on school time?  I hope the tulsa police cyber crimes unit finds nothing wrong.  We were all kids once, we all did some stupid/foolish things.  If this is considered identity theft, then why isn't all the impression's Frank Caliendo does of people when he says nasty remarks considered the same?  I am just at a loss that TPD would even consider this to be identity theft in any form.

[cannon_fodder]

TUalum0982 - the school has authority to do whatever it deems necessary to maintain discipline for its students.  Allowing them make web pages openly mocking the teachers certainly would degrade discipline AND harm that teachers ability to teach.  It teaches respect for an authority figure - what would happen if you did this to your boss?

I have no problem with schools taking action on such things, but I do not see that this is a police matter.

[RecycleMichael]

How would we feel if this didn't involved students and teachers? What if this had been adults against adults? If this had been any two groups of adults, would it then be identity theft?

Think of two groups of businessmen, or competing restaurants, or even home-owners associations. If my neighborhood association made up some fake websites that trashed the neighbors on the other side of town, would that be identity theft? Or worse, could it be prosecutable as liable or slander?

The kids made terrible personal remarks and then encouraged others to pile on more insults. Yes, they are just kids. But this could also be a good time to set an example so other kids can learn from it as well.

[cannon_fodder]

RM, it is my understanding that it would be a civil matter.  I'll check the Oklahoma Statutes on  Monday.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Apparently Floyd and TUalum0982 have far more inside information then the rest of us to determine no crime has been committed.

Please!  Tell us how you know more then the rest of us?  What first hand information do you have that says the police are wasting their time and no crime has been committed?  

Or, are you like the rest of us and only going based on what you read in the press.  We all know how reliable they can be.

I clearly said this is bad behavior.  I completely agree that it should be punished and that the school has the discretion to do so, at least to a reasonable degree.

BUT, going from what the article said and what I assume happened, there's just nothing remotely suggesting that a crime was committed.  These kids put up fake MySpace profiles on the internet in order to express their disdain for their teachers.  The article states:

quote:Just the thought of putting jokes and insults up like that, for the whole world to see, disgusts both parents and school staff. What the kids may not have realized--that behavior could get them arrested. Campus Police Chief Perry Marler.

"If they in fact said they were a teacher, that is identity theft."

Perry Marler doesn't know what he's talking about.  Here's the applicable Oklahoma statute:

quote: §21-1533.1.
 
  It is unlawful for any person to willfully and with fraudulent intent obtain the name, address, social security number, date of birth, or any other personal identifying information of another person, living or dead, with intent to use, sell, or allow any other person to use or sell such personal identifying information to obtain or attempt to obtain credit, goods, property, or service in the name of the other person without the consent of that person.

It is unlawful for any person to use with fraudulent intent the personal identity of another person, living or dead, or any information relating to the personal identity of another person, living or dead, to obtain or attempt to obtain credit or anything of value.

Any person convicted of violating any provision of this section shall be guilty of identity theft.  Identity theft is a felony offense.

NOTHING in this story remotely suggests violation of this statute.  What the story DOES suggest is a Campus Police Chief who is attempting to intimidate some kids who offended some teachers.

Now, as far as defamation--that's potentially more of an issue.  But defamation is not a crime, it's a tort--a civil offense.  And even then, opinion is a defense to defamation.  If I say, "Mr. Smith is a poopyhead," that's an opinion.  But if I say, "Mr. Smith is a child molester," that's a fact.  But there's more--a plaintiff has to show that the untrue statement damaged him.  So if this MySpace page were to call "Mr. Smith" a child molester AND that led to his losing his teaching job, then we MIGHT have defamation.  Emotional injury can be considered damages, but those aren't easy to prove.

So, Wilbur, wake up and see this story for what it is: rude behavior by some teens, and overreaction by the Campus Keystone Kops.