Terrorism in America

[FOTD]

http://www.freedomstatesalliance.com/newsletter/alert_021108.html

Between Big Pharma and the NRA, the threat of foreign terrorists pales in comparison to what we have going on here on the mainland. Seems like every week there is a nut running around terrorizing a community. What to do?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080215/ts_nm/usa_shooting_school1_dc_14

[mr.jaynes]

Well, I'd rather own firearms and never need them, than find myself in a life and death situation and have no means by which to defend myself.

[Ed W]

I don't think this school shooter, Steven Kazmierczak, met the definition of terrorist since he didn't have any overt political goals in killing five people.  He's a criminal, not a terrorist.  

Nichols and McVeigh, and abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph all had a political objective.  But I have to wonder - since nearly all the incidents of domestic terrorism involved shooters with right-wing political beliefs - what is it about such beliefs that attracts violence-prone individuals?

[Wingnut]

quote: since nearly all the incidents of domestic terrorism involved shooters with right-wing political beliefs - what is it about such beliefs that attracts violence-prone individuals?

Let's paint with a really wide brush.
When the left-wingers get in and institute socialism or, heaven forbid, sharia law, we'll see what happens.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

I don't think this school shooter, Steven Kazmierczak, met the definition of terrorist since he didn't have any overt political goals in killing five people.  He's a criminal, not a terrorist.  

Nichols and McVeigh, and abortion clinic bomber Eric Rudolph all had a political objective.  But I have to wonder - since nearly all the incidents of domestic terrorism involved shooters with right-wing political beliefs - what is it about such beliefs that attracts violence-prone individuals?

Nichols, McVeigh & Rudolph were "shooters"?

[Conan71]

Let's see, why don't we call that drag race out in Maryland early this morning terrorism, there were seven spectators killed there?  Sure scared the **** out of a lot of people.

Back to topic at hand:

The chances of taking a slug from some random nut-job are greatly diminished if you are packing.

[Ed W]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Nichols, McVeigh & Rudolph were "shooters"?
[/quote]

That was a bad word choice on my part.  "Killers" or "murderers" would have been better.

But again, why is it that the vast majority of domestic terrorists subscribe to right-wing viewpoints?  The left doesn't have any similarly infamous killers other than Ted Kaczynski, or at least none that I can think of.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Ed W

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Nichols, McVeigh & Rudolph were "shooters"?

That was a bad word choice on my part.  "Killers" or "murderers" would have been better.

But again, why is it that the vast majority of domestic terrorists subscribe to right-wing viewpoints?  The left doesn't have any similarly infamous killers other than Ted Kaczynski, or at least none that I can think of.
[/quote]

Ted Kennedy?

Seriously, attached is an article I came across pertaining to both left and right wing terrorists in this county.

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/780410-SHVVvq/native/780410.PDF

[Ed W]

(I think Ted Kennedy is only a threat if you happen to be an inebriated female sitting on a nearby barstool.)

That report was interesting, but it really didn't have much to offer other than this:

"Many believe that leftist extremism in the United States was at its peak during the 1960s
and 1970s and that right-wing extremism then became the major threat. While the
bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City and a number of other
incidents attributed to right-wing extremists indicate that the major threat is from the
right, leftist extremism remains a concern within the United States."


"Left-wing groups were responsible for three-fourths of the officially designated acts of domestic terrorism in the United States during the 1980s. About half of these incidents
were committed by Puerto Rican separatist groups and the remainder by traditional leftist
terrorist groups like M19CO (Smith, 1994)."

The message seems to be that these people were a threat 20 or 30 years ago, and they could still be a threat.  The report reads like someone is trying to justify a budget item by looking for lefty ghouls under the bed.

I came across one site, and sadly I can't find it again, that detailed the changing rhetoric coming from fringe groups as they descended into becoming terrorists.  In a nutshell, their statements increasingly de-humanized their opponents, often attributing vile criminal activity to them or comparing them to diseases.  Commonly, they were described as inveterate liars whose words could never be trusted or taken at face value.  Of course, this all lead to a call for their expulsion or execution.

Interestingly, the process was the same regardless of politics.  

[HoneySuckle]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

quote: since nearly all the incidents of domestic terrorism involved shooters with right-wing political beliefs - what is it about such beliefs that attracts violence-prone individuals?

Let's paint with a really wide brush.
When the left-wingers get in and institute socialism or, heaven forbid, sharia law, we'll see what happens.

I think the Right-wingers are doing a pretty darn good job as it is.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by HoneySuckle

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

quote: since nearly all the incidents of domestic terrorism involved shooters with right-wing political beliefs - what is it about such beliefs that attracts violence-prone individuals?

Let's paint with a really wide brush.
When the left-wingers get in and institute socialism or, heaven forbid, sharia law, we'll see what happens.

I think the Right-wingers are doing a pretty darn good job as it is.

Honeysuckle, you got it all wrong, here's what Rush Limbaugh would say about it.....

(Sorry I could not resist!)
[}:)]

[Wingnut]

quote: I think the Right-wingers are doing a pretty darn good job as it is.

Typical leftist trash, blaming others for what they are doing themselves.
Clinton is wanting to institute socalism and socalist policies, che obama is sympathetic to castro and it's the right thats at fault.

Let's look at who is a socalist....
socalists in Congress
Interesting that they're all democrats.
Notice Pelosi is on the list. Wait, didn't she go to the hotbed of terrorism, Syria, and try to be friends with them?

I'm sure it's the conservative right in berkley that passed a resolution saying the Marines were not welcome and intruders.
berkeley hates the Marines

We have history in the making. Look at Venezuela, socalism is on the may and people are fleeing like crazy. Since history won't tell us how many people socalism (nazism, communism, etc) have killed (100 mil+) over the years. We'll get to watch it fresh on CNN.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Let's see, why don't we call that drag race out in Maryland early this morning terrorism, there were seven spectators killed there?  Sure scared the **** out of a lot of people.

Back to topic at hand:

The chances of taking a slug from some random nut-job are greatly diminished if you are packing.

I'm not advocating the banning of guns, but the vast majority of murders are between people that know each other and you are far more likely to be killed or injured by your own gun than to use it in self defense. Most cops by far have never even fired their guns at a person.

I do think guns should be legal but I don't like widely available conceal and carry permits and I do like background checks and cooling off periods when buying guns. I do think there should be very strict checks on people buying semi-automatic assault rifles and automatic weapons should be banned. ammunition such as armor piercing rounds that make cops less safe should also be banned from sale.  

If a background check would include mental illness (which has been killed by our own good Senator Coburn because he worries about former soldiers with PTSD not being able to buy guns) or if there was a longer waiting period the gunman outside Chicago this week would have had two fewer guns to shoot at people with.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

quote: I think the Right-wingers are doing a pretty darn good job as it is.

Typical leftist trash, blaming others for what they are doing themselves.
Clinton is wanting to institute socalism and socalist policies, che obama is sympathetic to castro and it's the right thats at fault.

Let's look at who is a socalist....
socalists in Congress
Interesting that they're all democrats.
Notice Pelosi is on the list. Wait, didn't she go to the hotbed of terrorism, Syria, and try to be friends with them?

I'm sure it's the conservative right in berkley that passed a resolution saying the Marines were not welcome and intruders.
berkeley hates the Marines

We have history in the making. Look at Venezuela, socalism is on the may and people are fleeing like crazy. Since history won't tell us how many people socalism (nazism, communism, etc) have killed (100 mil+) over the years. We'll get to watch it fresh on CNN.

That boat won't swift Obama.....

Che Guevara said:
Of these three propositions the first two contradict the defeatist attitude of revolutionaries or pseudo-revolutionaries who remain inactive and take refuge in the pretext that against a professional army nothing can be done, who sit down to wait until in some mechanical way all necessary objective and subjective conditions are given without working to accelerate them.

As these problems were formerly a subject of discussion in Cuba, until facts settled the question, they are probably still much discussed in America. Naturally, it is not to be thought that all conditions for revolution are going to be created through the impulse given to them by guerrilla activity. It must always be kept in mind that there is a necessary minimum without which the establishment and consolidation of the first center is not practicable.

People must see clearly the futility of maintaining the fight for social goals within the framework of civil debate. When the forces of oppression come to maintain themselves in power against established law; peace is considered already broken.
--Guerilla Warfare, Che Guevara

http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot.com/2008/02/bush-wages-war-on-americans.html

Saturday, February 16, 2008
Bush Wages War on Americans
"When George W. Bush said of our "Constitution that it is "... just a Goddamn piece of paper!", he declared himself an outlaw at war with the American people. The Bush administration's culture of fear, hate and contempt for law inspires an epidemic of police lawlessness and thuggery that now terrorizes law-abiding Americans all over America. You can be thrown in jail upon a whim. You don't get to make a phone call. You don't get to call your lawyer. You don't get to call your wife or husband. And you don't get visitors. It is a state of treasonous war, a capital crime for which these war mongers must answer to the people. "



You're gonna have to come up with something more substantial than a picture in a Houston campaign office.....

[Wingnut]

From a World Net Daily story: http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56293
"How is it a front-runner for the highest office in the land can reject an American flag on his lapel but permit the display of a huge Cuban flag at one of his offices, emblazoned with a mass murderer's mug?" the publication asked.

"Barack Obama, displaying the same 'anything goes' standard of patriotism he showed when he ostentatiously refused to wear a U.S. flag in his lapel, now shows he's got a whole different idea about patriotism," the publication continued.

"Rather than repudiate the image, Obama would only call it 'inappropriate,' apparently without insisting it be taken down. That contrasts with his dismissal of his Senate colleagues who wear lapel flags as 'hypocrites.' Some hypocrites," IBD said.

"The display of the Castroite flag with Che's picture on it sends a particularly disturbing message about his campaign. Apparently, Obama tends to attract the kind of people who think of mass murderers like Che and Fidel as romantic revolutionaries. Those same people see Obama as a man with a messianic message.

quote: People must see clearly the futility of maintaining the fight for social goals within the framework of civil debate.

It almost sounds like your advocating an armed uprising here in the U.S.


Let's see what che accomplished in Cuba...
Chief executioner for the Castro regime, responsible for the murder of thousands
Was appointed Cuba's Minister of Economics in 1960; within months the Cuban peso was practically worthless.
Was appointed Cuba's Minister of Industries in 1961; within a year a previously prosperous nation was rationing food, closing factories, and losing hundreds of thousands of its most productive citizens, who were happy to flee with only the clothes on their backs.


Two weeks after Che entered Havana and took his post at La Cabana fortress, Castro saw his instincts as a personnel manager fully vindicated. The "acrid odor of gunpowder and blood" never reached Guevara's nostrils from actual combat. It always came from the close range murder of bound, gagged and blindfolded men. "We must create the pedagogy of the paredon (firing squad.)" Che instructed his Revolutionary Tribunals: "We don't need proof to execute a man. We only need proof that it's necessary to execute him. A revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate."
From: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2054

Is this the kind of subhuman that a presidental candidate should consider just "inapproiate"?

quote: "When George W. Bush said of our "Constitution that it is "... just a Goddamn piece of paper!",  

That's why we have checks and balances in our gov't and don't rule by decree like castro and che.