Barack Obama and George McGovern

[Hometown]

I was thinking about Barack Obama and George McGovern (sorry, not McCarthy as I previously posted).  Here's why.  

George McGovern was a Democrat who ran an anti-Vietnam War presidential candidacy in 1972.  The first time I voted it was the first time that 18 year olds had been allowed to vote.  I voted for McGovern.  There was a great deal of enthusiasm for McGovern, especially among young people.  But because McGovern lost it was also my first big time political disappointment.  

With McGovern's defeat I lost some innocence and realized that it's not always the best candidate that wins.  

Now I'm not saying that Obama is the best candidate, but I wonder if there are parallels between Obama and McGovern and if Obama's young supporters might find out that winners in the U.S. don't always wear white hats?

[Conan71]

I'm sorry, I just can't be civil and I really don't care to dignify any of your remarks.  I had a nice long post already done and **** canned it.

That was 40 years ago, quit backing losers like Genteges and get over it!

What happened to Hildog being your woman?

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I'm sorry, I just can't be civil and I really don't care to dignify any of your remarks.  I had a nice long post already done and **** canned it.

That was 40 years ago, quit backing losers like Genteges and get over it!

What happened to Hildog being your woman?

Wow. Time to replace that patch, Conan?

[Conan71]

Neh, didn't use the patch.  Used Chantix.  I'm two weeks off that and 7 weeks off the nicotine.  I feel great, just not much more tolerant of HT.  I'd hoped I'd become a little more liberal when I quit, hasn't happened yet.

[}:)]

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Neh, didn't use the patch.  Used Chantix.  I'm two weeks off that and 7 weeks off the nicotine.  I feel great, just not much more tolerant of HT.  I'd hoped I'd become a little more liberal when I quit, hasn't happened yet.

[}:)]

I must credit the patch comment to a Friends episode--when Chandler was trying to quit cigs and had an angry outburst.

If you want to be more tolerant of Hometown, try walking the earth like he did in the 1970s--after he lucked out of having to serve in the military.

[Breadburner]

Were you thinking about them in the shower together.....?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I was thinking about Barack Obama and George McGovern (sorry, not McCarthy has I previously posted).  Here's why.  

George McGovern was a Democrat who ran an anti-Vietnam War presidential candidacy in 1972.  The first time I voted it was the first time that 18 year olds had been allowed to vote.  I voted for McGovern.  There was a great deal of enthusiasm for McGovern, especially among young people.  But because McGovern lost it was also my first big time political disappointment.  

With McGovern's defeat I lost some innocence and realized that it's not always the best candidate that wins.  

Now I'm not saying that Obama is the best candidate, but I wonder if there are parallels between Obama and McCarthy and if Obama's young supporters might find out that winners in the U.S. don't always wear white hats?

Having walked this earth in the 70's, I didn't see any parallels to McCarthy. McGovern was a different animal. He had been a pilot on a bomber in WWII, knew war, knew service and knew politics. He was my father's age but more in tune with the reality of a changing world. A benevolent father figure. He was my candidate and a good one.

Though he lost, he was successful in opening the eyes of the ruling class who at that time had no problem sending lower classes and minorities off to fight a war for dubious reasons. Also in opening our eyes that our generation was going to be a power to be reckoned with for a long time to come. Nixon and his cronies had a hard time understanding what was happening. They really were in a different world. I have a lasting memory of a man on the street interview on CBS at the time of a Nixon aristocrat who said, "The only people I see supporting this loon are riding bikes on college campuses and wearing sandals". Like that was a bad thing.

The fact that we are once again in war and once again in economic difficulty is where the parallels end in my mind. Different kind of war and a more apathetic youth who haven't found their identity other than digital. Obama isnt' really tapping into their youth as much as their dissatisfaction with leadership that has ignored them.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

The fact that we are once again in war and once again in economic difficulty is where the parallels end in my mind. Different kind of war and a more apathetic youth who haven't found their identity other than digital. Obama isnt' really tapping into their youth as much as their dissatisfaction with leadership that has ignored them.

Don't you think their youth is a part of the dissatisfaction?

I think Obama has three advantages (none of which is remotely an endorsement by me):

Youth- self explainatory

Outsider- Least amount of time being polluted by the D.C. establishment.  Although when you look at his career after leaving Harvard, he's been "known" in the DNC and influenced by it.  He's also been carefully polished since he was paraded out at the '04 convention.

Black-  The race thing might well help him amongst white twenty-somethings who can't remember a time when it was considered okay to utter the "N" word.  I believe there might be less aversion these days to electing a black male than white female.  Of course I could be totally wrong and there are a lot of politically-active George Wallace pinheads still out there.

[Hometown]

Quido, you never answered my question about your moniker.  Let me guess.  You are a young Italian man from the boroughs of NYC who was in NYC for September 11 but has since relocated to Tulsa.

I know it takes some courage to open up and share something personal.  Come on, be really brave, you can do it.

[Hometown]

Thanks for your thoughtful response Waterboy.

It has occurred to me that Black men were able to vote before women.  That might say something about what our nation is ready for.

I continue to support and give money to Hillary.  And I could warm up to a Clinton/Obama ticket.

[rwarn17588]

Obama has three other advantages than the ones already mentioned:

-- His campaign organization is better than Hillary's, or anyone else's during the election year.

-- He's a better speaker than anyone. In fact, he's the best speaker since Ronald Reagan.

-- His reasons for opposing the Iraq War (lack of WMDs, Iraq's religious sects, among others) were spot-on and prescient.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Quido, you never answered my question about your moniker.  Let me guess.  You are a young Italian man from the boroughs of NYC who was in NYC for September 11 but has since relocated to Tulsa.

You are courageous and yet still have time to sterotype. Multi-tasker.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

The fact that we are once again in war and once again in economic difficulty is where the parallels end in my mind. Different kind of war and a more apathetic youth who haven't found their identity other than digital. Obama isnt' really tapping into their youth as much as their dissatisfaction with leadership that has ignored them.

you think their youth is a part of the dissatisfaction?

I think Obama has three advantages (none of which is remotely an endorsement by me):

Youth- self explainatory

Outsider- Least amount of time being polluted by the D.C. establishment.  Although when you look at his career after leaving Harvard, he's been "known" in the DNC and influenced by it.  He's also been carefully polished since he was paraded out at the '04 convention.

Black-  The race thing might well help him amongst white twenty-somethings who can't remember a time when it was considered okay to utter the "N" word.  I believe there might be less aversion these days to electing a black male than white female.  Of course I could be totally wrong and there are a lot of politically-active George Wallace pinheads still out there.

I was thinking about that remark later this morning as I drove around. Perhaps it would be better phrased as dissatisfaction with leadership that has ignored their "interests". As opposed to youth in the early Nixon years that were simply ignored. Youth has no interest in huge deficits they will carry for the rest of their wage earning years, they have no interest in Social Security, racism, sexism and immigration. They have little interest in suburban sprawl and little interest in fighting wars for old white men with vested interests (both congressional and presidential).

I do think the young have been persuaded to be more and more conservative by appealing to their monetary and security interests. Many have fallen prey to false issues with hot button words like gay marriage, "death" taxes, "waves of immigrants" and "hollywood" morals. Of course crime is always good to throw around too. Those key words rely on motivations of fear, jealousy, greed and power. Young people feel cheated when those issues are paraded in front of them and are attracted to any positive message that comes forth.  Those messages appeal more to cynical old farts like you and me. Thus, Obama leads in youth, McCain in age.

Most interesting race I've seen or read about since Kennedy/Nixon. Hometown, you seem very pragmatic about Obama having to soon yield to the machine and take backseat status on the ticket. What that would do to his passionate youth movement? About what happened with McGovern and Paul. Feelings of hopelessness and a retraction from the process can be expected. After Kennedy won, young people of the time became more politically conscious and passionate.

[FOTD]

Back seat status?

This will be over after Texass and it won't be Hillary heading to the alter with Barack.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Neh, didn't use the patch.  Used Chantix.  I'm two weeks off that and 7 weeks off the nicotine.  I feel great, just not much more tolerant of HT.  I'd hoped I'd become a little more liberal when I quit, hasn't happened yet.

[}:)]

I think it did.....btw, WSJ article today on page D1...Puff Power: Drug warnings Speak to Nics Sad Grip...glad you did not go crazy or kill yourself in the process. Kudos.