Brookside: Upscale Apartment Complex Proposal

[hulahooper]

The neighbors should be jumping up and down for joy.  Those apartments are an eyesore, and the landlord who currently owns them is a scammer/low rent landlord.

[YoungTulsan]

Artist, good info, thanks!  Did you get any idea, or a look at a map, of what exactly it was taking out?  I made a map of what I'm thinking is going to happen, I was curious how they are going to squeeze 250 quality units into a fairly small area.  Here is my map:



- The red area is going to be gone for sure.  All of those are the really bad dilapidated units.

- My question is about the Yellow and Blue areas.  It would make sense, and seem more realistic for them to be cramming that many apartments into the space going all the way to 41st Street.  If they just take out the condos (Yellow area) that is a very narrow strip that I don't see the artist renderings fitting into.  The Blue area takes out a nice ocean of asphault which is primarily overflow parking for Wild Oats (but people dont like to walk very far, so it isnt utilized fully) - but also the decent sized Insurance office that sits in that parking lot.  Will Janine Morales be relocating for this deal?  They wind up with about 300,000 square feet if they take out everything to 41st street, but only have a little under 200,000 square feet with the red area.

My measurements are very very rough based off of google maps' scale key and pixels.  Not exactly scientific.

Another note, Google maps has the streets off by quite a bit, Rockford ave. doesnt sit on the east side of those trees, my box borders go down where Rockford really is.

[Composer]

This is really great for Tulsa.  Thanks Artist for going to the meeting.  Great to hear that not all were opposed to the height.  5 stories is nothing.  I can understand them upset with 8 or 10.

[Rico]

The "army barracks" need to come down... have for years.

The only real question I have would be in regards to the aesthetics of the building.

I'm sorry but you could easily mistake this drawing for a hospital.... not semi-resort, upper scale, living quarters...

William, you are the Artist of record...

Opinion??

[YoungTulsan]

And are they serious about parking on the lower level?  The renderings show no parking lot or cars.  Is that realistic?  There is also no fence.  This is great if it is true, especially if residents can just walk out the door and go do stuff instead of going around a ratmaze of gates and fences to go anywhere.

I looked up the North Little Rock one on Apartmentguide, the prices are a bit higher than what people are used to in Tulsa.  Is the Little Rock market in general more expensive than Tulsa for the same thing?  Or would this be reasonable to expect the same for Tulsa?



Typical new construction "luxury" apartments are going for more like $1 per sq. foot in South Tulsa than the $1.15 to $1.45 you see there.  Might be out of my price range, but it also looks like they might have more features than your typical offering the Tulsa mass-market has been seeing.

[TheArtist]

I do not remember what exactly the footprint of the building is. Yes the parking is indeed on the ground level which is an expense that also pushes for the building to be a bit higher and of higher quality "able to charge more for rent". The prices you have on that chart are what I believe they will be asking for. They do want this to be a "premier address", one of the best if not THE best apartment choice in the area. They consider themselves to be a vanguard developer. They see "up and coming" areas and make the first move.

As for where the building is. They came into town, looked for general areas, Brookside/Cherry street and then looked for what properties were for sale that were large enough for their types of development. This property fit the bill. Apparently they had been looking at Tulsa for a while and when this property became available they went for it. I doubt in this climate of "dont build that near me" that they could go in and try to buy up a bunch of smaller properties and then try to get this built. Someone would inevitably not want to sell and would put up an even bigger fight. Plus, whats there is no big loss imo.

Couple other things.  Some have mentioned that the development isnt urban enough. The front set backs and the drive are too much. But the developer, realizing he was in for some criticism on the height added the larger set back and drive to minimize the appearance of the height. He also lopped off 2 stories on either end, "losing some money" in order to have a stepped appearance with the ends meeting the height requirements.

They wanted to help the people who would be displaced by the sale of the duplexes find new places. So they had some people go around the area, scout out rents and have said they have gotten other rental property owners who have said they will definitely work to help the people. They said they have found available places in the same area that cost about the same or less and had more square footage than the ones the people were renting now. Personally I think that is something the sellers of the duplexes should have done, but it seemed a decent thing for the developer to do.

[cannon_fodder]

Thanks Artist!

I know a person that looks like they will be
involved in this project and they gave the same
interpretation of the meeting as you did.  They
also mentioned that Channel 8 packed up after
the tirades and left, showing no interest in the
positive speakers.  Apparently the guy who
currently owns the property is being encouraged
to sell by his creditors, so the interpretation
that they will lose their "homes" seems entirely
accurate.

Ok.  Now residents have a huge say in
development in their own area, but here is the
choice for the city of Tulsa (and I trust
theArtist to give a fair assessment):



or


Seriously?  If we turn this project down I'd
imagine most major developers will assume we are
not serious about urban development, infill
projects, or increased density.  ~35 units vs
250.  ~$2mil in tax base vs. $30mil.  Old and
crappy vs. new and shiny.  Add to that choice a
developer that is willing to try and appease
the locals (so long as it still makes "cents")
and help those offended relocate.


This better not be a hard choice.

[Gaspar]

You're right CF.  Other parties are watching.  I found two other developers (from 2007) that had claims on this property as a future project.  Both dropped it because they felt it would be too difficult of a battle.

They are now watching to see if they were right! [:O]

[Conan71]

Based on the property layout I'm guessing the "front" will face either north or south? Yes?

As I've said, I personally don't have a problem with it, just identifying what/who the problems might be for this type of development.

Honestly from 41st St. I think it would be pretty distinctive.  Not so sure how it would look over the roof of Food Pyramid going down Peoria.

This is good infill which could help change the face of the 41st & Peoria area.  The old vet housing was tired 20 years ago.

[Rico]

These fellows have quite the "portfolio" of projects they have done across the country..

http://www.bomasadagroup.com/projects.html

still think they could add a little more character to the exterior of the Brookside project.. It will be very visible. The more eye appeal it has the more it will enhance the area.

[Renaissance]

I certainly hope this goes through.  Once builders like these are in a market, they tend to expand within that market.  Tulsa needs more vanguard developers hunting for "pioneer" sites.  That's the only way that old, cool districts like the Pearl and East Village are going to come alive.  I certainly hope these folks have a successful experience in Brookside.

[Conan71]

At least this group can show some completed work unlike "Heavenly Hospitality".  Floyd I think you are correct that if one developer could make something like this happen others would take notice or they might develop more.

Looks as if this company has one completed project in Charleston and is working on another.

[Renaissance]

Yeah, this is no Global Development Partners startup.  This is an established builder of upscale apartments.  Now, when we say "upscale" or "luxury," in association with a 250-unit building, we're not talking about the Ritz-Carlton.  We're talking about places that have nice countertops, thick walls, decent carpeting and paint.  Community gyms.  Potted plants in the halls.  Nice things, but not exorbitant.  In other words, exactly the sort of places we want to encourage in the core of our city.  

Other regional builders who we could encourage to come to Tulsa include Postand Gables.  I'm familiar with those two, but there are plenty more companies out there looking to continue their investments in a market that is not inflated and that has room for growth.  

That's why it's such good news that Bomasada Group has identified and hopes to invest in the Tulsa market.  It is also why it behooves us to make them as welcome as possible, so that others will follow.  These are the builders that make downtown residences happen in places like Austin, Dallas, Atlanta, and Denver.  We need them here.

[swake]

This looks like a great project.

It would be great for the area. I think the Brookside Neighborhood Association is going to be for this. The site where this is going to be built is a pretty rough and not well maintained complex that is surrounded by a very nice neighborhood.

There are some other pretty iffy apartment complexes in this area that could be leveled for projects like this.  The apartments behind Westlake Hardware on the other side of Peoria come to mind. Those are awful and hurt the whole area on that side of Peoria.

A question, would the proposed conservation overlay ordinance make a project like this impossible?

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

These fellows have quite the "portfolio" of projects they have done across the country..

http://www.bomasadagroup.com/projects.html

still think they could add a little more character to the exterior of the Brookside project.. It will be very visible. The more eye appeal it has the more it will enhance the area.

the list of amenities in their other projects is pretty impressive,  it will not be a slum project.  the list looks fairly upscale to appeal to a more urban crowd.  As to it being seen over the top of Food Pyramid, That is okay with me.  You go to Dallas, Kansas City or hell, even Little Rock and see these types of apartment communitys improving a neighborhood.