Computer Help

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982


I will need to go ahead and buy the MB from newegg and wait till it gets here.  I appreciate all your help.  Could we possibly meet up somewhere when it comes in to do the swap? I would buy ya lunch or a beer, whatever you want. Thanks

Sure

[grahambino]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

i have a seagate and wd hdd in my computer right now.  i dont really have a preference, as i've never had problems w/ any.  I think i had a samsung drive fail in 2000-2001.  Ive had one fail at my first job, I cant remember what brand it was.  I had a couple fail at my second job, they were SCSI drives and someone them piled on top of each other, and they got extremely hot.  

it really could be a number of things, CF mentioned them.

most of the time, all you need to use in your BIOS settings are the 'optimized defaults' or even just  defaults', if you dont know what else to use.

i cannot stress to you the importance of getting a high quality power supply.  I've really had good luck w/ Antec, though thats just my opinion.  I've not really used any other brand for the past 6-7 years. i don't know a lot about intel chipsets or boards, since all my builds have been AMD.
i'd say at least a 450-500w power supply would be necessary for that.

What power supply are you using?

and if youre getting a DHCP error...in windows?
that's a networking issue  its how your IP address is assigned.

I am using Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 115/ 230 V TUV, UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC - Retail.  The DHCP error I got resolved simply by changing the boot priority.  It had one of my 500gb external harddrives as the first one listed, when it should have been the internal 320gb seagate barracuda drive.  Would this MB not be warranted by MSI? If it is, they will just replace it with another MSI compatible board correct? Should I just cut my losses and get an antec?

Thanks guys!

that power supply should be adequate.
hmm.  yeah replacing a motherboard is easy.  routing your cables around the case, can be a PITA.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

i have a seagate and wd hdd in my computer right now.  i dont really have a preference, as i've never had problems w/ any.  I think i had a samsung drive fail in 2000-2001.  Ive had one fail at my first job, I cant remember what brand it was.  I had a couple fail at my second job, they were SCSI drives and someone them piled on top of each other, and they got extremely hot.  

it really could be a number of things, CF mentioned them.

most of the time, all you need to use in your BIOS settings are the 'optimized defaults' or even just  defaults', if you dont know what else to use.

i cannot stress to you the importance of getting a high quality power supply.  I've really had good luck w/ Antec, though thats just my opinion.  I've not really used any other brand for the past 6-7 years. i don't know a lot about intel chipsets or boards, since all my builds have been AMD.
i'd say at least a 450-500w power supply would be necessary for that.

What power supply are you using?

and if youre getting a DHCP error...in windows?
that's a networking issue  its how your IP address is assigned.

I am using Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 115/ 230 V TUV, UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC - Retail.  The DHCP error I got resolved simply by changing the boot priority.  It had one of my 500gb external harddrives as the first one listed, when it should have been the internal 320gb seagate barracuda drive.  Would this MB not be warranted by MSI? If it is, they will just replace it with another MSI compatible board correct? Should I just cut my losses and get an antec?

Thanks guys!

that power supply should be adequate.
hmm.  yeah replacing a motherboard is easy.  routing your cables around the case, can be a PITA.

The case itself is actually quite large.  The largest comp case I have ever owned, they aren't a problem right now.  So sqrizzle, one of the 2 mentioned MB's above will work just fine?

[Gaspar]

Oh you poor PC users.  
It's like trying to keep an old car running.

I went MAC last year, and everything just works.  Always!  

I'm a power user too!  There are 40 Duel Core PCs networked to my Mac that just function as processors for when I do renderings or other intensive tasks.  

I never have to use the terms reboot, CMOS, or BIOS.  I don't care about my chipset, or any of the other 500 types of incompatible hardware.  It just works.  Always!

The only way I can help is www.apple.com

[]

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982
The case itself is actually quite large.  The largest comp case I have ever owned, they aren't a problem right now.  So sqrizzle, one of the 2 mentioned MB's above will work just fine?

Looked like it. The reviews were really good. I would go with the $89 one though.

[grahambino]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Oh you poor PC users.  
It's like trying to keep an old car running.

I went MAC last year, and everything just works.  Always!  

I'm a power user too!  There are 40 Duel Core PCs networked to my Mac that just function as processors for when I do renderings or other intensive tasks.  

I never have to use the terms reboot, CMOS, or BIOS.  I don't care about my chipset, or any of the other 500 types of incompatible hardware.  It just works.  Always!

The only way I can help is www.apple.com

[]

and when its time to upgrade you just throw it away and get a new one!

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Oh you poor PC users.  
It's like trying to keep an old car running.

I went MAC last year, and everything just works.  Always!  

I'm a power user too!  There are 40 Duel Core PCs networked to my Mac that just function as processors for when I do renderings or other intensive tasks.  

I never have to use the terms reboot, CMOS, or BIOS.  I don't care about my chipset, or any of the other 500 types of incompatible hardware.  It just works.  Always!

The only way I can help is www.apple.com

[]

and when its time to upgrade you just throw it away and get a new one!

No you can upgrade just like a PC, it's just that everything works with everything else.  No silliness!



http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html

[EricP]

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Oh you poor PC users.  
It's like trying to keep an old car running.

I went MAC last year, and everything just works.  Always!  

I'm a power user too!  There are 40 Duel Core PCs networked to my Mac that just function as processors for when I do renderings or other intensive tasks.  

I never have to use the terms reboot, CMOS, or BIOS.  I don't care about my chipset, or any of the other 500 types of incompatible hardware.  It just works.  Always!

The only way I can help is www.apple.com

[]

and when its time to upgrade you just throw it away and get a new one!

+999999999999999999999

Macs get viruses just like anything else... Macs have less software to run on them so there's less to have incompatibilities with.. Macs cannot be upgraded worth a damn so there are no compatibilities to worry about there either. If you know what you're doing, you build a PC. If you want to spend double and have no upgrade path or control over the inner workings of your system, get a Mac.

Mac Pro: Single quad-core CPU, 4gb memory, 750gb hard drive, 8800GT... Subtotal: $3,249 according to the page you linked.

Similarly equipped PC: $1100, and much better for gaming not to mention everything else. Where exactly does the extra $2,000 go? My PC "always works" because I built it right. So if I had to spend an extra $2,000 for ignorance, I should probably not own a computer

The OP had some bad luck with a board. Know what it'll cost to fix? <$100. He could replace the board another 10 times before he might consider a mac

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982
The case itself is actually quite large.  The largest comp case I have ever owned, they aren't a problem right now.  So sqrizzle, one of the 2 mentioned MB's above will work just fine?

Looked like it. The reviews were really good. I would go with the $89 one though.

will do that tonight.  Once again, I appreciate everyone's help on the topic.  Sgrizzle, I will PM you when it comes and maybe set up a time/place if you have some free time. Thanks again.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by EricP

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

Oh you poor PC users.  
It's like trying to keep an old car running.

I went MAC last year, and everything just works.  Always!  

I'm a power user too!  There are 40 Duel Core PCs networked to my Mac that just function as processors for when I do renderings or other intensive tasks.  

I never have to use the terms reboot, CMOS, or BIOS.  I don't care about my chipset, or any of the other 500 types of incompatible hardware.  It just works.  Always!

The only way I can help is www.apple.com

[]

and when its time to upgrade you just throw it away and get a new one!

+999999999999999999999

Macs get viruses just like anything else... Macs have less software to run on them so there's less to have incompatibilities with.. Macs cannot be upgraded worth a damn so there are no compatibilities to worry about there either. If you know what you're doing, you build a PC. If you want to spend double and have no upgrade path or control over the inner workings of your system, get a Mac.

Mac Pro: Single quad-core CPU, 4gb memory, 750gb hard drive, 8800GT... Subtotal: $3,249 according to the page you linked.

Similarly equipped PC: $1100, and much better for gaming not to mention everything else. Where exactly does the extra $2,000 go? My PC "always works" because I built it right. So if I had to spend an extra $2,000 for ignorance, I should probably not own a computer

The OP had some bad luck with a board. Know what it'll cost to fix? <$100. He could replace the board another 10 times before he might consider a mac

Well, I have to disagree, but I will do it in a kind way.  I too am a gamer in my very limited spare time, and a mac is faster, hands down.

The reason I work on a Mac is because it can handle extremely large graphic files with ease.  PCs cannot.

Currently, as I type this, I have 5 images open in photoshop that each exceed 1.8 gigs in size.  If I were to try one of those images on one of our quad Xenons here at the office, I get instant crash!    

. . .I also have Google Earth, SketchUp, and Strata running.  (I can't even begin to tell you how large the rendering I have going in Strata is, but it will take 26 more hours to generate).

I too have built my share of PCs, and am familiar with all of the cheap parts, I am just no longer impressed by cheap!  You are correct, a good mac will set you back a bit more, but I have to have a system that will work, and PCs are still about 10 years behind.  

We have about 40 people in this office pumping CADD on high end Dual Core, Dual Xenon, and Quad Xenon PC boxes.  They are great for CADD, but you simply cannot take it to the next level and produce quality graphics in a reasonable amount of time on these machines.  

So yes, mine is bigger than yours!

[EricP]

Ugh. I'm not going to justify that misinformation with a response... wait yes I am. Claiming that it opens large images that "make PC's crash" and that it is faster at gaming (pancakes games can you even play???) are just outright crap. Go spew Apple propoganda to somebody who wants to hear it. Do you work in an Apple store? Your nausea-inducing rhetoric makes it sound like you do.

You are literally saying that two IDENTICAL pieces of hardware, one running MacOS and the other running Windows has one "HANDS DOWN" winner in gaming. That is absolute garbage. Gaming on a rendering box is not generally a great idea anyway since those video cards are optimized for different activities. Show me the benchmarks that say if I play Half Life 2 on a Mac with an 8800GT, I will get 120fps in 1600x1200 with AA and Aniso on whereas the PC will get 100. I would call that "hands down."

If I can:

a) Have my head up my own donkey and spend $3,000 to get a certain level of performance and not build my own PC
b) Know what I am doing and keep up with the market and spend $1,000 and achieve that same level of performance and gain the benefit of incredible flexibility and configuration from the lowest level on the hardware all the way to the operating system, retail software and VASTLY abundant custom software for enthusiasts...I will choose B every time. Apple has nothing to offer me.

[sgrizzle]

1. You can run every windows application on a Mac PC.
2. Applications perform better on Mac0S on equivalent hardware because the OS isn't dragging it down.
3. Macs have very high relative resale value. Research by the WSJ found that while you lose a bit more up front, you actually save money over time if you upgrade every 1 or 2 years.
4. Apple DUAL quad core mac pro is 2799 and upgradeable to 32GB of ram. Most PC's take 4, maybe 8.

Please check your facts. I am not a Mac Fanboy, but I have tried more operating systems than most people have underwear so I appreciate it when discussions border on accuracy.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

1. You can run every windows application on a Mac PC.
2. Applications perform better on Mac0S on equivalent hardware because the OS isn't dragging it down.
3. Macs have very high relative resale value. Research by the WSJ found that while you lose a bit more up front, you actually save money over time if you upgrade every 1 or 2 years.
4. Apple DUAL quad core mac pro is 2799 and upgradeable to 32GB of ram. Most PC's take 4, maybe 8.

Please check your facts. I am not a Mac Fanboy, but I have tried more operating systems than most people have underwear so I appreciate it when discussions border on accuracy.

since we are talking about accuracy, a dual quad core mac pro is not in the same class as an average home PC that takes 4 or 8Gb of RAM. For that fair comparison you need to be looking at Dell Precision workstations which take up to 64Gb of quad channel RAM.

and trying lots of operating systems doesn't make you an authority of anything, it just means you installed a bunch of OSs. BFD.  

a monkey can scratch his donkey a lot, but that doesn't make him a dermatologist.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by EricP

From the newegg reviews, I'd say if you are using PATA (the wide ribbon cables) to connect your hard drives, you should not buy another one of these boards.. it seems the IDE controller for those ports is flawed and was likely the cause of your hard drive issues. You should be able to find one with excellent ratings on newegg for pretty cheap and get everything working smoothly again. You MIGHT be able to get off easy with a BIOS update if you haven't ever updated it.. you might not.

Depending on how many PCI slots you need, one of these with an even newer chipset that would support future upgrades better would be a good choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128084
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059

Here's some of the dirt on your existing board:
"the BIOS mine shipped with was all sorts of flaky, an update fixed most issues though."

"The RAID on this mobo only works with 1 SATA port and the single IDE port. In other words you can NOT RAID two SATA drives. MSI generally makes great boards but I think this one is a dud. I am avoiding all boards with JMicron controllers forever."

"I had to replace this board from my customers machine and have ate the cost but will hold onto it and wait for the bios release to come down merely because it has good qualities if the fix will take care of the issues or RAID for pata and a sata drive and make it sata to sata."

"Avoid the Jmicron controller on any board at all costs. On this board, using an ide optical drive forces PIO mode, you CANNOT use DMA/UDMA! With only PIO mode support, you will poll the processor and slow the sytem down any time you access the drive."

"JMicron PATA/SATA controller is the worthless, it would have been better to not include it at all, conflicts with the Intel SATA controller on boot, PATA shows up as SCSI so DVD/CD programs don't know what to do with it. Can't completely disable it ether. BIOS was very poorly programmed, labels the SATA as master and slave and the devices attached to the JMicron controller don't even show up. Motherboard layout is terrible, FDD connector is below the expansion slots, the power and +12 has to wrap around the CPU. SATA and PATA connectors on the mobo is low quality. Memory support really bad also. Had the worse time trying to get XP w/SP2 to install on a SATA drive."

the 2nd one you mentioned, does it matter that my RAM is DDR 800 and this mobo supports DDR1066? I looked at gigabytes website and I didnt see that my memory was supported.  This will be a problem, right? Will this mobo still work? or should I keep looking? My ram is

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098

and I apologize, I am running 2gb not 4 like I previously stated.  My mistake. thanks again.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by EricP

From the newegg reviews, I'd say if you are using PATA (the wide ribbon cables) to connect your hard drives, you should not buy another one of these boards.. it seems the IDE controller for those ports is flawed and was likely the cause of your hard drive issues. You should be able to find one with excellent ratings on newegg for pretty cheap and get everything working smoothly again. You MIGHT be able to get off easy with a BIOS update if you haven't ever updated it.. you might not.

Depending on how many PCI slots you need, one of these with an even newer chipset that would support future upgrades better would be a good choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128084
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128059

Here's some of the dirt on your existing board:
"the BIOS mine shipped with was all sorts of flaky, an update fixed most issues though."

"The RAID on this mobo only works with 1 SATA port and the single IDE port. In other words you can NOT RAID two SATA drives. MSI generally makes great boards but I think this one is a dud. I am avoiding all boards with JMicron controllers forever."

"I had to replace this board from my customers machine and have ate the cost but will hold onto it and wait for the bios release to come down merely because it has good qualities if the fix will take care of the issues or RAID for pata and a sata drive and make it sata to sata."

"Avoid the Jmicron controller on any board at all costs. On this board, using an ide optical drive forces PIO mode, you CANNOT use DMA/UDMA! With only PIO mode support, you will poll the processor and slow the sytem down any time you access the drive."

"JMicron PATA/SATA controller is the worthless, it would have been better to not include it at all, conflicts with the Intel SATA controller on boot, PATA shows up as SCSI so DVD/CD programs don't know what to do with it. Can't completely disable it ether. BIOS was very poorly programmed, labels the SATA as master and slave and the devices attached to the JMicron controller don't even show up. Motherboard layout is terrible, FDD connector is below the expansion slots, the power and +12 has to wrap around the CPU. SATA and PATA connectors on the mobo is low quality. Memory support really bad also. Had the worse time trying to get XP w/SP2 to install on a SATA drive."

the 2nd one you mentioned, does it matter that my RAM is DDR 800 and this mobo supports DDR1066?

it supports up to that, but your ram will just run at 800 unless you do something stupid like overclock it.  chipsets are more forgiving these days unlike the old days where you had to match the memory speed to the mobo.  just don't get a CPU that runs at 1066 because you will just be wasting the extra speed since the RAM cant keep up.