Bad Streets My Fault - I'm Sorry

[Wilbur]

According to Ken Neal at the Tulsa World,

http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectID=212&articleID=20080301_7_G3_Roadb80306

the citizens of Tulsa are to blame for Tulsa's bad streets, but he never once blames anyone in government.

And he says us citizens haven't done a thing about roads over the past 20 years.  I guess Ken forgets about that pesky little 3rd penny sales tax, that even he admits, spent only $120M out of $500M on streets.

Who prioritizes 3rd Penny?  The government dictates what is submitted to the voters.  The government dictates what is important in spending, which this year was a new city hall.  It is the government who dictates priorities in other tax areas, such as Vision 2025, Four to Fix, ......

Sorry Ken Neal.  I won't say I'm sorry for the government not making priorities out of core responsibilities.

[sgrizzle]

Apology accepted.

[TheArtist]

That article was written rather, well, without all the facts. It kind of fell flat and felt as if it were haphazard and without much thought.

I would like to see someone lay out in a short, simple manner just what the 3rd penny and other fundings of "road money" actually went to and why. Thats going to be a constant cry by people. "They had road money but they spent it on other things!" Someone needs to lay out exactly what those other things were, when they were spent and how much each was.  Example, during such and such time Tulsa was flooding, instead of raising another tax we took X amount from the road fund and used it here. We needed .....so instead of raising taxes we took it from this...  

the other obvious question is, are those funding sources still being used for other things? If we divert them back to roads will those "other things" then go wanting? Lay it all out for me.

Though I think we do need to spend more money on the roads. As long as others are bringing up questions about where the old funding went and I cant answer that, it feels irresponsible to go ahead with new funding options until everyone knows where and why the old funds went where they did and why they cant go there now.

[Wrinkle]

Many Tulsans have found the answer to their obvious misappropriation of road funding...don't drive on the roads, causing them to deteriorate.

So, they left town.

[cannon_fodder]

Have Tulsa's citizens turned down a road proposal that I am unaware of?  Or does he mean that it is our fault in that we control government?

If he wants me to carry gravel around to fill in the car eating holes, I'll do it.

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder



If he wants me to carry gravel around to fill in the car eating holes, I'll do it.

Well get after it. Could you start near 111th & Sheridan...

[FOTD]

Hardtless powers tell the Whirled what to think....

[tulsasignnazi]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


I would like to see someone lay out in a short, simple manner just what the 3rd penny and other fundings of "road money" actually went to and why.

The short, simple 3rd Penny logline: Kiss MY Earmark.

[jne]

Pew center appropriately throws some blame at the state.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080303_1__OKLAH85351

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Have Tulsa's citizens turned down a road proposal that I am unaware of?

Yes. In 1989, citizens voted down a GO bond of $102 million for streets. That resulted in an 11 year gap between GO bonds, when 5-6 year cycles are typical.

Source: Tulsa City Council Complete Our Streets, Page 30

[FOTD]

That was a burly economic time in Tulsa. Timing was not right. So, the question is, why wasn't there another attempt in 93?

Sometimes I get the impression from Tulsa's city bureaucrats an attitude exists unfavorable towards the voter. Out of disappointment and defeat they just let the cookie crumble. Blaming the street situation on the citizenry for not prioritizing the need when they were asked to do so in 89 would seem a bit late in the game.

I can't tell you how often over the year's I have heard, "that'll take a bond issue and Tulsan's won't pass the vote" coming from those in charge. And where was our amazing downtown Chamber during all this down time?

[Kiah]

More and more of the Third Penny is being spent on things that were traditionally considered normal operating costs -- like take-home vehicles for police officers (more than $17 million in the 2006 Third Penny).  While police and fire operating budgets continue to grow much faster than any other area of city government, they're sloughing off more and more of their operating costs onto the Third Penny -- displacing infrastructure needs.

[Kiah]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

The government dictates what is important in spending, which this year was a new city hall.

The whole basis for consolidating several old city facilities into one newer facility was that it will be cost neutral.  You can't talk about the expenditure without considering the long-term savings as well.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

More and more of the Third Penny is being spent on things that were traditionally considered normal operating costs -- like take-home vehicles for police officers (more than $17 million in the 2006 Third Penny).  While police and fire operating budgets continue to grow much faster than any other area of city government, they're sloughing off more and more of their operating costs onto the Third Penny -- displacing infrastructure needs.

Where did you get the $17 million pricetag for take home cars?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

More and more of the Third Penny is being spent on things that were traditionally considered normal operating costs -- like take-home vehicles for police officers (more than $17 million in the 2006 Third Penny).  While police and fire operating budgets continue to grow much faster than any other area of city government, they're sloughing off more and more of their operating costs onto the Third Penny -- displacing infrastructure needs.

Where did you get the $17 million pricetag for take home cars?

I believe that $17 Million is correct, over the expected life of the sales tax.

It runs about $3-4 million per year to provide each of our 800+ freeloading TPD personnel with a Take-Home vehicle to commute to Owasso, Sands Springs, Broken Arrow, Jenks, Sapulpa, Glenpool.

Plus, additional millions annually for fuel and vehicle maintenance.