Kaiser throws a couple more bucks at the river

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
I don't care how many trails you build, I don't "jog" no matter what.

I don't run unless people chase me.

Unfortunately, since I started posting on TulsaNow, it happens frequently.

I always knew there was a fine line between having people follow you and being chased.

[Renaissance]

Let's back away from judging the proper use of the property for a moment and ask, what does this purchase suggest about Kaiser's river intentions?

Options:
1) It's an isolated purchase which takes advantage of an opportunity and makes sure that property will be available someday for either directed commercial use (mixed-use, river-oriented fun stuff) or civic (move Riverside and make some more parkland).

2) It's part of a plan coordinated by Kaiser to move toward private river development, on a smaller scale than the proposal voters shot down last year.

3) The River Plan never died, and has been quietly moving forward behind closed doors, waiting for adjustments to be made, new officials to be elected, streets to be fixed, and the mood of the county to improve.

What angle am I missing here?  This purchase signals that something is going on.  We just don't know what yet.

[PonderInc]

I value all green space, and I love walking, biking or driving by this particular chunk.  At night, you can learn about micro-climates when you realize that this stretch of Riverside is often foggy...b/c the grassy area is several degrees cooler than the surrounding asphalt and rooftops.  I've also seen red foxes and coyotes traversing this field.

However, I could imagine some terrific uses of this space that would preserve and improve the greenspace.  

I also agree that the tight curve under the pedestrian crossing is dangerous.  People often hold political rallies there, waving signs at passing motorists, and I always cringe... wondering when the fatal accident is going to occur.  

Even if you keep your eyes on the road, there's a weird drainage problem that causes water to accumulate up to several inches deep in the road under the bridge.  People hit it going 45 MPH and either are blinded by the splash or they hydro-plane on the water.

Last time the Blair mansion was sold, I was terrified it would be subdivided (like so many grand old estates in this town) and filled with faux French Provencial McMansions.  I'm relieved the Kaiser folks bought it.  Good choice.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by bigdtottown

I for one don't see much point is preserving acres and acres of bermuda...hardly what I'd call stunning landscape architecture.  Maybe some sort of park would work.  Heck, even a few nice homes scattered in there with nice, interesting landscaping would be better that what's there now.

See, I've always thought it was cool to drive down Riverside and show people from out of town our own version of Monticello with a lawn like an Antebellum plantation.

[ARGUS]

It is currently a "dog Park" if Red Foxes count.
To all that suggest housing...uhh...get out. Buford could have done that and didnt....and he is a developer type of housing more so than Kaiser. Kaiser (I have never met him but would like to shake his hand approvingly)sees the grand B I G picture more clearly than the rest of us plebes ever will.
Stand back or lend a hand and let THE MAN show us small town negative nit-pickers how to do SOMETHING FOR TULSA.
I say it again: Go Kaiser Foundation!!! and thank you again!
Leave Riverside alone(for a good number of years)....learn to drive,slow down or avoid the area.
The article states that Buford will occupy the proerty for a number of yrs....good! This time will allow the naysayers on River Develpoment to die off (preferred!LOL)or pull their heads out of a dark place and a plan (a good one) to be placed on the table.
.....oh one more thing...I agree w/ Inteller on this issue.
Good Day.

[cks511]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd
Options:
1) It's an isolated purchase which takes advantage of an opportunity and makes sure that property will be available someday for either directed commercial use (mixed-use, river-oriented fun stuff) or civic (move Riverside and make some more parkland).

2) It's part of a plan coordinated by Kaiser to move toward private river development, on a smaller scale than the proposal voters shot down last year.

3) The River Plan never died, and has been quietly moving forward behind closed doors, waiting for adjustments to be made, new officials to be elected, streets to be fixed, and the mood of the county to improve.

I agree and gut feel says Door #3.  After we cavemen voted NO, the rulers did not just go back to their 20,000 sq ft tee-pees and slam the door and say forget it.  BUT, lookee, we voted NO and are still getting some of the stuff...wow what a concept.  IMHO

[FOTD]

I hope GK remembered to reserve all signage rights that go with the property and I mean immediately. Gadz, Dan's politics sometimes.....But I envision Obama signs as far as the eye can see in the short term.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

I hope GK remembered to reserve all signage rights that go with the property and I mean immediately. Gadz, Dan's politics sometimes.....But I envision Obama signs as far as the eye can see in the short term.

I saw people putting up a bunch of giant Hillary signs the day before Super Tuesday.

Atleast they only stayed up one day.  But they were large enough that they surely had the landowner's permission.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan


I saw people putting up a bunch of giant Hillary signs the day before Super Tuesday.

Atleast they only stayed up one day.  But they were large enough that they surely had the landowner's permission.

I think if they had permission, they would've stayed longer.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Let's back away from judging the proper use of the property for a moment and ask, what does this purchase suggest about Kaiser's river intentions?

Options:
1) It's an isolated purchase which takes advantage of an opportunity and makes sure that property will be available someday for either directed commercial use (mixed-use, river-oriented fun stuff) or civic (move Riverside and make some more parkland).

2) It's part of a plan coordinated by Kaiser to move toward private river development, on a smaller scale than the proposal voters shot down last year.

3) The River Plan never died, and has been quietly moving forward behind closed doors, waiting for adjustments to be made, new officials to be elected, streets to be fixed, and the mood of the county to improve.

What angle am I missing here?  This purchase signals that something is going on.  We just don't know what yet.

Floyd, I like your analysis.  The part which is most encouraging is that Ken Levit is saying this is somewhat of a long-term holding or plan.

I'd suspected Mr. Kaiser would have eventually contributed more money for the river even without the river tax.

[TheArtist]

I dont think there was ever any doubt that we would "eventually" get everything done along the river, including the dams. Its mostly a matter of timing, now or who knows when... difficulty and whether or not we will get 100 million to help? Nobody is going to give up their dreams, its just going to take a loooot longer to materialize. Thus the impact wont be as immediate and as great, and we will be losing likely decades or more of "compounding interest" that such a large investment in the beginning could have been accruing. We cant of course change the past. So lets keep pushing to get every little bit done that we can and all donate as much as we can to help.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I dont think there was ever any doubt that we would "eventually" get everything done along the river, including the dams. Its mostly a matter of timing, now or who knows when... difficulty and whether or not we will get 100 million to help? Nobody is going to give up their dreams, its just going to take a loooot longer to materialize. Thus the impact wont be as immediate and as great, and we will be losing likely decades or more of "compounding interest" that such a large investment in the beginning could have been accruing. We cant of course change the past. So lets keep pushing to get every little bit done that we can and all donate as much as we can to help.

I don't agree.  That was a pay-as-you-go project.  There's a lot stuff happening in the background.  The time frame might be pushed back by a few years than if we'd have done this all as one package, but not decades.

I'm learning there are also quite a few people who were for the project at the time who are now saying privately it was a cluster **** and was poorly timed.  Pretty much what a number of us less-important people were saying at the time.

[TheArtist]

Time will tell... How are all those dance partners doin you assured us would be there for a hotel by the arena? I love keeping up with the latest news on the new development on the west bank. Don't you?

I am willing to bet you, most of the stuff that would have been in and along the river by 2027 (what the river vote laid out) will not be there by 2027.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Let's back away from judging the proper use of the property for a moment and ask, what does this purchase suggest about Kaiser's river intentions?

Options:
1) It's an isolated purchase which takes advantage of an opportunity and makes sure that property will be available someday for either directed commercial use (mixed-use, river-oriented fun stuff) or civic (move Riverside and make some more parkland).

2) It's part of a plan coordinated by Kaiser to move toward private river development, on a smaller scale than the proposal voters shot down last year.

3) The River Plan never died, and has been quietly moving forward behind closed doors, waiting for adjustments to be made, new officials to be elected, streets to be fixed, and the mood of the county to improve.

What angle am I missing here?  This purchase signals that something is going on.  We just don't know what yet.

Floyd, I like your analysis.  The part which is most encouraging is that Ken Levit is saying this is somewhat of a long-term holding or plan.

I'd suspected Mr. Kaiser would have eventually contributed more money for the river even without the river tax.

I'm sure you're right.  What I'm trying to figure out is whether this purchase is an isolated incident--simply taking advantage of the opportunity to snag the Blair property while it's available, preserving it some as-yet-unplanned future use--or whether it's part of a more coordinated, behind the scenes effort to put together a new river plan for eventual presentation to the public.  Pure conjecture.

The reason I wonder, I admit, is that I kind of hope it's the latter--that Kaiser hasn't given up on the idea of a coordinated master plan to make the Arkansas a central attraction for Tulsa, and his foundation is quietly going about laying the groundwork for that.  But, given Mr. Levit's comments, I think it's the former--the property was again going to be for sale, and they snagged it for as-yet-undefined public purpose before a private entity could come in and develope it for other (possibly less desirable) use.

[Conan71]

KFF's actions have been pretty stealthy.  I think intentions would become more clear if they were to buy up the houses which line Riverside between 31st and I-44 (can't remember how far south, I realize there are not houses all the way to I-44, and there are apartments closer to 31st) to create a buffer for the east side.

Considering the status as a charitable trust, the eventual intentions of the Blair property would be public use.  I suppose they could purchase the concrete plant as well and turn around and deed it to the city, if they so wished.  That property hasn't been mentioned in awhile.

Artist- I don't recall ever weighing in on a hotel near the arena other than lampooning Heavenly Hospitality a few times.  [)]