Rep. Kern's Statements

[Wingnut]

quote: So, this isn't a result of the "gay agenda", but instead a lapse in judgement.

A laspe in judgement?
I wonder how many peoples hands it went thru to be approved to be seen.

quote: Ok, let me explain, the bible does says that. But the bible is wrong.  

Certainly, the Bible is wrong. It's only wrong when it says something that someone doesn't like or it doesn't fit their agenda.

quote: And the reason is surprisingly ironic considering the game you are playing.

Sorry, no games. I'm just trying to have one of those 'discussions to enhance understanding', but I just don't think those kind of things work if someone keeps calling someone else wrong.
It's all a point of view. When someone looks at the reality of a situation and won't even agree that it's factual, or even actually happened, there's no point in going any farther with it.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

Certainly, the Bible is wrong. It's only wrong when it says something that someone doesn't like or it doesn't fit their agenda.

Now THAT is a dangerous statement.  Isn't that true of 99.99% of people who believe in the Bible?  They believe in the portions they like, the interpret portions that don't quit fit, they change the meaning to fit the times, and they overtly ignore portions that no longer suit our society.

That's the problem with living Biblically, really you are just living with your interpretation of the Bible while asserting that your interpretation is THE right one.  Which, of course, judges everyone else's way of interpretation or choice of religion as wrong.  Which is itself against the Bible.

But I'm sure there is some passage or interpretation of the Bible that makes it OK to Judge so long as it is against someone who thinks differently.  Which brings us full circle...

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

quote: So, this isn't a result of the "gay agenda", but instead a lapse in judgement.

A laspe in judgement?
I wonder how many peoples hands it went thru to be approved to be seen.

None.

Obviously you haven't read the lawsuit. It was a substitute teacher that showed the video.

[HJKoelzer]

Ms Kern has sure raised a flood of concerns in the country.  There are a couple things I have wondered about.  Before the 80s homosexuals were "homosexual", or even "Queer" or "Lesbian".  They called themselves queer by the way.  Then they took on the term "Gay".  I have often wondered how a group of citizens can all at once call themselves a name that obviously means something entirely different then the word means.  I believe they used the word gay because it has a happy and good connotation; not a bad one.  The words homosexual and queer are viewed by most people as negative words and do not have a positive or good connotation; hence the name gay.  About the same time they took on the rainbow as a symbol of their "gayness".  I am sure there is not some "high council of gays" setting an agenda.  But I do believe there is a loosely based agenda that desires the homosexual lifestyle become mainstream and accepted as a "normal and accepted" way of doing business.  The fact that homosexuals want their ideals placed at the forefront of governmental policies indicates an agenda.  They fact that political action committees exist for the sole purpose of promoting homosexual ideals and policies that support homosexual lifestyles indicates an agenda.  There is a homosexual agenda.  Homosexuals even are asking that they be viewed as a minority element in the nation.  The homosexuals call it an alternative lifestyle.  The word lifestyle means a choice is made to live a certain way.  Homosexuals choose a lifestyle.  Blacks, Native Americans, Asians, and Latinos never chose anything.  Being labeled a "Minority" is a birthright.  

Yeah Kern made some wild statements but she did have a few things right.  There is an agenda and we (the non homosexuals) have the right to not have our children exposed to the "lifestyle" in school on television or anyplace for that matter.  Homosexuals at one time were actually embarrassed to be homosexual.  Now they flaunt it like a gun and actually take pride in saying "I am Homosexual".  Ops, they would never say homosexual.  I have to get more politically correct.  NOT

[cannon_fodder]

Remember the good old days when Christians were forced to hide the fact that they worshiped the only god/man since Achilles?  They had underground groups that went around trying to subvert people and invented pretty symbols like the fish to attract people.  They even pretended like they were the correct people of all the religions but kept to themselves and rarely proclaimed themselves in public.  They called it a "Christian lifestyle" or "living like Jesus."  Now they stand up and proclaim they are Christian like they are proud of it.
- - -

Welcome to the conversation HJ, but we went around this already.  If you want to call homosexuality a "choice" then you must admit that you choose to be sexuality attracted to women.  Therefor, you chose the heterosexual "lifestyle" (why is who you have sex with defining of your lifestyle anyway) and are trying to force your choice on others.

And I'm pretty sure that like Blacks, Latinos, and Asians the homosexuals aren't trying to convert people nor are they saying their particular state of being is any better than anyone else's.  It simply is, and they want people to recognize that.  BUT, like the Asians, the Blacks, and the Latinos some people refuse to understand that it is an irrelevant footnote.  Race, like sexual orientation, is not a defining characteristic of an individual.

Also as a point of order, by your definition you are wrong.  Blacks certainly chose to live a "black lifestyle."  If you want to talk about it in such degrading terms - so be it.  Large groups of blacks chose to wear baggy pants, to talk in a sub-English dialect, to shun education, and all the other stereo typical black "lifestyle" choices.

While we're at it, how many homosexuals do you know?  I know plenty around Tulsa and in my family (my god, I hope I don't catch gay when I get older!).  For most of them their sexuality is a sub-note of their life (there are some hyper sexual queens just as their are Quagmires in the world of breeders).  They are doctors, lawyers, salesmen, construction hands... they are fishermen, horse riders, gamers, and drinkers.  Granted of the gay men I know a disproportional number fit into the stereotype occupations (nurse, flight attendant, several in fashion) but that's probably why stereotypes exist (reference the black stereotypes above).  

But the point is, their sexuality has about as much to do with who they are as it does for you or I - it is an important part of who I am but it is not the main part of who I am.  Outside of my close friends discussions about sex don't really come up that much and have little impact on my relationships, work, or daily life (outside my marriage of course).  Why would it be any different if I was sexually attracted to men?

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Wingnut

quote: So, this isn't a result of the "gay agenda", but instead a lapse in judgement.

A laspe in judgement?
I wonder how many peoples hands it went thru to be approved to be seen.

quote: Ok, let me explain, the bible does says that. But the bible is wrong.  

Certainly, the Bible is wrong. It's only wrong when it says something that someone doesn't like or it doesn't fit their agenda.

quote: And the reason is surprisingly ironic considering the game you are playing.

Sorry, no games. I'm just trying to have one of those 'discussions to enhance understanding', but I just don't think those kind of things work if someone keeps calling someone else wrong.
It's all a point of view. When someone looks at the reality of a situation and won't even agree that it's factual, or even actually happened, there's no point in going any farther with it.

No, I'm saying the bible is wrong as it differs from the proceeding document.

A discussion doesn't work, when you don't read my posts. I'm not making this up stuff up I suggest you read the Talmud! That's the reality, I'm being factual. The Talmud says something different.

[Wingnut]

quote: Isn't that true of 99.99% of people who believe in the Bible? They believe in the portions they like, the interpret portions that don't quit fit, they change the meaning to fit the times, and they overtly ignore portions that no longer suit our society.

No! If you  have to change it to fit how you believe, then you don't believe in the Bible. Your using it to be a tool to support your own made up beliefs.

quote: Ok, let me explain, the bible does says that. But the bible is wrong.  

Thanks for making my point above.

quote: That's the problem with living Biblically, really you are just living with your interpretation of the Bible while asserting that your interpretation is THE right one. Which, of course, judges everyone else's way of interpretation or choice of religion as wrong. Which is itself against the Bible.

Thanks, self-appointed, High Priest CF, for showing us that there is no real way to believe in the Bible without being incorrect all the time, even when it is perfectly clear what it says.

[okiebybirth]

quote:Originally posted by HJKoelzer

Ms Kern has sure raised a flood of concerns in the country.  There are a couple things I have wondered about.  Before the 80s homosexuals were "homosexual", or even "Queer" or "Lesbian".  They called themselves queer by the way.  Then they took on the term "Gay".  I have often wondered how a group of citizens can all at once call themselves a name that obviously means something entirely different then the word means.  I believe they used the word gay because it has a happy and good connotation; not a bad one.  The words homosexual and queer are viewed by most people as negative words and do not have a positive or good connotation; hence the name gay.  About the same time they took on the rainbow as a symbol of their "gayness".  I am sure there is not some "high council of gays" setting an agenda.  But I do believe there is a loosely based agenda that desires the homosexual lifestyle become mainstream and accepted as a "normal and accepted" way of doing business.  The fact that homosexuals want their ideals placed at the forefront of governmental policies indicates an agenda.  They fact that political action committees exist for the sole purpose of promoting homosexual ideals and policies that support homosexual lifestyles indicates an agenda.  There is a homosexual agenda.  Homosexuals even are asking that they be viewed as a minority element in the nation.  The homosexuals call it an alternative lifestyle.  The word lifestyle means a choice is made to live a certain way.  Homosexuals choose a lifestyle.  Blacks, Native Americans, Asians, and Latinos never chose anything.  Being labeled a "Minority" is a birthright.  

Yeah Kern made some wild statements but she did have a few things right.  There is an agenda and we (the non homosexuals) have the right to not have our children exposed to the "lifestyle" in school on television or anyplace for that matter.  Homosexuals at one time were actually embarrassed to be homosexual.  Now they flaunt it like a gun and actually take pride in saying "I am Homosexual".  Ops, they would never say homosexual.  I have to get more politically correct.  NOT

The "lifestyle choice" I made as a gay man, was that I'd live openly as a gay man and not hide in the closet.  I would suppose being a closeted homosexual would be another lifestyle choice.

I'm sorry if it offends you, well actually I'm not, but I will not hide and be ashamed for your benefit.

You reference the terms used to describe this group of people.  If you know anything about history, you'd know that African Americans were in earlier years called Negroes, and at other times in history called Black Americans.  These names changed throughout history to reflect how this group of people identified.  Again, you are upset that people identify as being "gay" instead of being "queer" or "homosexual".  And again, I really am not worried that you are upset because I'm sure you reference this group in other terms besides the ones mentioned above.

As far as a "gay agenda", What do you exactly think this agenda entails?  Homosexuals do choose a lifestyle in that they live openly instead of being closeted.  That's the only lifestyle choice they are making there.  And this so-called agenda is actually a demand for human dignity, something that shouldn't even require all of the time and effort that it entails.

Now living in this brave new world where homosexuals are open (which you interpret as "flaunting" but you don't look at it like heterosexuals "flaunt" their sexuality since it is the dominant "lifestyle choice" in this world), does bring a new recognizable minority that society sees while walking down the streets of America.  How does a society handle this new dimension?  A school system will try to address questions that these kids will have by not denying this reality.  You, as a parent, have every right to instill a hatred of homosexuals if you feel it will serve the best interests of your child in the future.

[azbadpuppy]

quote:Originally posted by HJKoelzer

Ms Kern has sure raised a flood of concerns in the country.  There are a couple things I have wondered about.  Before the 80s homosexuals were "homosexual", or even "Queer" or "Lesbian".  They called themselves queer by the way.  Then they took on the term "Gay".  I have often wondered how a group of citizens can all at once call themselves a name that obviously means something entirely different then the word means.  I believe they used the word gay because it has a happy and good connotation; not a bad one.  The words homosexual and queer are viewed by most people as negative words and do not have a positive or good connotation; hence the name gay.  About the same time they took on the rainbow as a symbol of their "gayness".  I am sure there is not some "high council of gays" setting an agenda.  But I do believe there is a loosely based agenda that desires the homosexual lifestyle become mainstream and accepted as a "normal and accepted" way of doing business.  The fact that homosexuals want their ideals placed at the forefront of governmental policies indicates an agenda.  They fact that political action committees exist for the sole purpose of promoting homosexual ideals and policies that support homosexual lifestyles indicates an agenda.  There is a homosexual agenda.  Homosexuals even are asking that they be viewed as a minority element in the nation.  The homosexuals call it an alternative lifestyle.  The word lifestyle means a choice is made to live a certain way.  Homosexuals choose a lifestyle.  Blacks, Native Americans, Asians, and Latinos never chose anything.  Being labeled a "Minority" is a birthright.  

Yeah Kern made some wild statements but she did have a few things right.  There is an agenda and we (the non homosexuals) have the right to not have our children exposed to the "lifestyle" in school on television or anyplace for that matter.  Homosexuals at one time were actually embarrassed to be homosexual.  Now they flaunt it like a gun and actually take pride in saying "I am Homosexual".  Ops, they would never say homosexual.  I have to get more politically correct.  NOT

You are so wrong on so many fronts. Where do you get your information from? Do you consider yourself an 'expert' on gayness?

The term 'gay' as used to describe homosexuals dates back to the 50's, not the 80's in the U.S., long before the rainbow flag came into being. The flag was first introduced in 1978 in San Francisco as a symbol for gay pride, but has long been displayed in many cultures around the world as a sign of diversity and inclusiveness.

I guess you haven't been paying attention, but the term gay is often used as derogatory slang, especially with the younger generation, with kids saying quite frequently, "That is so gay!" when they are referring to something they think of as bad. Wonder how that started....

Here we go with this so called agenda again. Why is it that because there are political action groups, like the Human Rights Campaign, that wish to promote tolerance, understanding and equality for everyone, this is somehow construed as 'evil' or 'wrong'? There are all kinds of political action groups out there, some of the most powerful being right wing, so-called pro-family groups promoting their own specific and exclusionary agendas. What about them? Whats your point on this?

Gay rights groups are certainly not trying to place themselves on the 'forefront of governmental policies'. They are trying to gain equal rights for all Americans, which are supposed to be granted by the constitution. The only people placing the 'gay issue' on the forefront of governmental policies are the evangelical 'christian' right wing extremists who believe that homo's are going to hell, are somehow sick and twisted, and should not be treated equally under the law.

Also, the only people I know that refer to anyone's 'lifestyle choice' as you put it, are people that think it is a choice, such as yourself. I personally think referring to anyone's sexual orientation as a 'lifestyle choice' is derogatory and offensive, not to mention completely uninformed.

Thank you so much for speaking for all gay people. Let me be the first 'gay' to apologize to you for taking pride in being who I am, and for not being embarrassed anymore.  

[cannon_fodder]

Do you wear tassels on your clothing?

Do you forgive debts every 70 years?

Do you mix cloth?

Cut your lobes or shave your beard?

Eat Kosher?

Avoid women menstruating?

If you kill a slave, do you pay the master a fair price?

If not, then you do not do everything the Bible commands of you.  Of course, you can negate most of this by using portions of the book that might imply that you can ignore other portions of the book.  But then again, some passages indicate that we should adhere to all the commandments in the book:

"For this is the love of Elohim, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" (1John 5:3).

"Know ye not, brethren (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he lives? ...Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Romans 7:1, 12).

But really the new testament only adopts 9 of the 10 commandments and few, if any of the laws.  But wait, doesn't that mean the whole Sodom thing gets thrown out too?  Oh the heck with it... lets just say that some parts of the Bible negate other parts of the bible so we don't have to follow them, but it doesn't negate all the older parts of the bible... just the ones we don't like.

But then again:

Matthew 5:17-18  
17 [And Jesus said] "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."

So I guess you DO have to wear tassels to follow the bible, but you can threaten homosexuals with fire and brimstone still.

I hope you see that I am not trying to mock you.  But show that in fact very few people even try to literally follow the Bible.  Ignoring translation and censorship issues, it is open to interpretation and contradicts itself.  I won't bother with the list again.

Live inspired by the Bible if you'd like, but pretending you live as it commands is just an exercise in interpretation and selective following.  If you chose to ignore the condemnation of mixed fabrics in the old testament or to shun unclean women, surely you could show acceptance and understanding to homosexuals.

[NellieBly]

I've discovered the Gay Agenda -- it's to improve the housing market single handedly!!!
Gays and house prices
Here's one that'll confuse the Daily Mail - gays are good for house prices.
Shihe Fu estimates that a rise of one percentage point in the proportion of same-sex couples living in an area raises median house prices by 9 per cent even 10 years later, controlling for some obvious other things.
This suggests that gays improve neighbourhoods; they don't just choose to live in nicer places.
This could be because gays higher disposable incomes (they don't have kids) attracts better shops and restaurants. Or it could be that gays' better aesthetic appreciation enables them to spot attractive but under-priced areas, and to care more about urban regeneration.

How dare they come into our neighborhoods and make house prices increase!

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

I've discovered the Gay Agenda -- it's to improve the housing market single handedly!!!
Gays and house prices
Here's one that'll confuse the Daily Mail - gays are good for house prices.
Shihe Fu estimates that a rise of one percentage point in the proportion of same-sex couples living in an area raises median house prices by 9 per cent even 10 years later, controlling for some obvious other things.
This suggests that gays improve neighbourhoods; they don't just choose to live in nicer places.
This could be because gays higher disposable incomes (they don't have kids) attracts better shops and restaurants. Or it could be that gays' better aesthetic appreciation enables them to spot attractive but under-priced areas, and to care more about urban regeneration.

How dare they come into our neighborhoods and make house prices increase!

THey're taking over Brady Heights as we speak!!  [}:)]

[waterboy]

I remember the term "gay" was a fledgling term in the late sixties. Never heard it in the fifties but I was pretty young then. Primarily it seemed to grow because popular mainstream media could not use the words homosexual, lesbian, pregnant or menstruation in such public ways. Sometimes print media used the terms if there was a crime involved. Remind you of Taliban extremists? "Queer" or "friendly fellow" were much more prevalent in slang but still could not be used in media. It was this prohibition that led to creative uses by comedians of descriptive words to get the message across that someone was homosexual. It was also attractive for youth because of its usage by our grandparents (nosegay)as an arrangement of flowers or in their literature.

I had never heard the argument that if being gay is a lifestyle choice, then it follows that being heterosexual is also. Its logical and I like it but alas it seems flawed. Unless you believe that it is genetic, which most Kern-ers don't, it loses steam. They cling to the belief (unsubstantiated by science) that heterosexual is genetic and gays are overiding their genes with impulsive, sinful, selfish emotions. And don't confuse them with current science cause everyone knows those dang agnostic/atheistic scientists have an agenda!

Either way, gays simply are. Like you CF, I rarely find a gay who defines his life by his or her sexuality. Nor a minority who frames their life by their color. It seems more common among fundamentalists. Usually it seems we use our hobbies or our jobs as defining characteristics.

[guido911]

Okay, who has seen the "gay" terrorist photo?

[PonderInc]

Oh, now I see the connection!  It's a spelling error combined with misleading intelligence reports that led Kern to make her ignorant statement.

First of all, it's Saddam, not Sodom.  And neither one was reponsible for the 9/11 attacks...