Rep. Kern's Statements

[flintysooner]

I probably first referenced Mel White by name.

DSJeffries had included a link to a page on soulforce.org that discussed Biblical issues regarding homosexuality that is authored by Mel White.  

WingNut criticized the contents of the page in a subsequent post and one point of contention was questioning the credentials of the author.

I wanted to point out that Mel White did have a D.Min. from Fuller.

He has several other degrees as well and a very considerable amount of work in the evangelical community besides.

White co-founded SoulForce after he "came out."

I actually think the arguments raised about the Scriptural references are quite interesting.  The Genesis 19 account of the destruction of Sodom if read without bias can easily lead to other conclusions in my opinion especially if considering the Hebrew.

At any rate that's why I posted about Mel White's credentials.

[Wingnut]

quote: I wanted to point out that Mel White did have a D.Min. from Fuller.

Thank you for the information. I don't know that I have ever heard of Mel White.
My point was that most, if not all, of the Drs. I have heard speak usually state where they have been to school and earned their degrees from, or it in stated in their introduction. Of course, others here will say differently.
I felt it unusual that he was specifically vague as to his schooling saying 'a conservative Bible seminary'.
I also didn't feel that he gave me anything to go on, referencewise, other than what he was saying, especially in his discussion of Gen 19. If I'm to 'search the scriptures' about what I've been told, he gave me little to go on, other than what I would consider, personal opinion.

[flintysooner]

White is pretty well known to evangelicals my age I suspect.

He was heavily involved in evangelical work for many years.  He wrote speeches and was a ghostwriter for several big names and had some degree of public prominence.  He taught at Fuller for a decade.  He was married and had two children.

So when he came out in 1994 it was a huge surprise and shock.  He had tried various cures including a failed suicide attempt.  

It is so difficult for people who are gay and Christian.  One of the problems is that so many Believers don't know any gay people, or think they don't.  It is easier to demonize and objectify when you don't know real people. I've always wondered if that was perhaps part of what happened when Jesus saved the woman caught in adultery in John 3.  

I think it is a terrible tragedy for those on each side of the issue.  It is very, very sad to me to listen to the anti-gay comments.

The arguments about the Scriptural references seem quite cogent to me.  I was surprised when I actually did a little research.  I think White may very well be proven correct regarding some of his Scriptural arguments.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71


Take some religious classes and you're told that only those with gifts of the spirit were worthy to be an "official" founding father.

So what your saying, is an organization that believes they are right above all others, is founded to convince other people of that notion, and has a vested interest in proving their version - ignores historical writing (including the founders own memoirs), the founding documents themselves, as well as any and all understanding of law in the US (no Biblical references - NOT Christian Sharia) and teaches their own version of things?  Amazing. []

[HJKoelzer]

I suggest all the homosexuals on here go to this website.

http://www.narth.com/

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:Originally posted by Conan71


Take some religious classes and you're told that only those with gifts of the spirit were worthy to be an "official" founding father.

So what your saying, is an organization that believes they are right above all others, is founded to convince other people of that notion, and has a vested interest in proving their version - ignores historical writing (including the founders own memoirs), the founding documents themselves, as well as any and all understanding of law in the US (no Biblical references - NOT Christian Sharia) and teaches their own version of things?  Amazing. []

See, now I'm really confused, was it the Masons and Templars, tongue-talkers, Quakers, the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, or multi-theists which founded the country? [}:)]

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by HJKoelzer

I suggest all the homosexuals on here go to this website.

http://www.narth.com/

That's awesome.  I want to go and learn to be gay, is there a place that teaches me to be gay?  You see, I've never like men sexually and I'd like to learn.

quote:Myth #1
Homosexuality is normal and biologically determined.

The truth...
There is no scientific research indicating a biological or genetic cause for homosexuality. Biological factors may play a role in the predisposition to homosexuality. However, this is true of many other psychological conditions.

Research suggests that social and psychological factors are strongly influential. Examples include problems in early family relationships, sexual seduction, and sense of inadequacy with same-sex peers, with resulting disturbance in gender identity. Society can also influence a sexually questioning youth when it encourages gay self-labeling.

So one might be biologically predisposed to being gay, but not really gay.  Does that mean that you like other men when you are born, but you can be taught to like women?  Oh, I see.  It means you were born with the gay virus and if you are abused as a child or have a small penis then you might catch the gay.
- - -

I think this groups heart is in the right place, but personally I just can't see being taught to like men.  So I find it hard to believe someone can be taught to like a different sex.

[Conan71]

' No, we're not homosexuals, but we're willing to learn.'

[RecycleMichael]

I could be gay, but I am too lazy to march in all those parades.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by HJKoelzer

I suggest all the homosexuals on here go to this website.

http://www.narth.com/

Um, what if I suspect I'm gay, but don't have time or money for intensive treatment?  I'd be satisfied with less gay if I could take my treatment on the go.

Bottom line:  can you reduce my possible gayness by 60% or more?  If so, I'd like one of your brochures.

Disclaimer: I am no more than 20% gay.

[Wingnut]

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I saw this article on that NARTH website.....

  The New Finger-Length Study on Lesbians
By Neil Whitehead, Ph.D.A recent study found that lesbians are slightly more likely than are heterosexual women to have male-type finger length patterns. Although the correlation was only slight, and although the researchers could not explain why some heterosexual women also had the same finger pattern, the study was quickly hailed as further evidence that homosexually-oriented people are "born that way."


Neil Whitehead, author of the recent book, My Genes Made Me Do It! responds to the evidence

[cannon_fodder]

Wow.  What a study.  Ummm, so many angles, so many one liners.

I think I'll pass. []

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

' No, we're not homosexuals, but we're willing to learn.'

No "Fort Dix" jokes.

[patric]

The crazy lady has some competition:

ENID, Oklahoma -- An Oklahoma politician is catching a lot of heat but it has nothing to do with his campaign or platform. Instead, it's the way he runs his business.

"If you come in here with all the in your face and a limp wrist, no I don't really want you in here and my customers damn sure don't want you in here," James said.

James, who is also running for a spot on the Enid City Council, is keeping out what he calls "trash" and "people on welfare."

Earlier this week, he told the local paper anyone who wears a hat inside a building is gay, and will be asked to leave.

http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=9764682

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by patric

The crazy lady has some competition:

ENID, Oklahoma -- An Oklahoma politician is catching a lot of heat but it has nothing to do with his campaign or platform. Instead, it's the way he runs his business.

"If you come in here with all the in your face and a limp wrist, no I don't really want you in here and my customers damn sure don't want you in here," James said.

James, who is also running for a spot on the Enid City Council, is keeping out what he calls "trash" and "people on welfare."

Earlier this week, he told the local paper anyone who wears a hat inside a building is gay, and will be asked to leave.

http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=9764682

Well this guy will probably not be allowed in that moron politician's business:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jxU3fLHivgSqzF5NdHkOdsNYq6dQD96FIRGO0