Obama and Wright

[tim huntzinger]

But throwing Granny under the bus? pancakes? One thing to confide something to a family member another thing entirely to say 'Thus saith the Lord' and the saith is a blasphemy.

To suggest that this kind of blaspheny is dominant in the af-am community of faith is grotesque.

On the other hand, MLKJ had a particularly pointed view of Vietnam, basically calling it a racist anti-Christian war.

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

PMCaulk, whether or not a Democrat occupies the White House is literally a matter of life and death for people here at home and around the World.  

It was the Geraldine's vice presidential candidacy that soured me on symbolic votes.  A symbolic vote is a wasted vote.  I believe the stakes are so high that our candidate must be prepared to face the fight that he or she is about to enter.  

Someone who has the fire in the belly will have already crafted a strategy that deals with the real world.  Obama is flying by the seat of his pants in that regard.  He has not played this race any differently than other politicians before him, he has just been slow to learn and react.

I don't take any pleasure in seeing this painful playing out of the election cycle.  But it reminds me of Kerry and Swift Boat and how very angry I am with Kerry for not being prepared for the obvious.  Because of his incompetence lives have literally been destroyed while he has lived the life of a rich man.

I've heard Obama supporters make remarks like, "If he enters the fight he will be just like any other politician."  Well, hello.  What do you think he is?  The second coming?  

I'm not an Independent – fair weather friend.  I'm a Democrat at the start and I'll be a Democrat at the end.  And I will support our candidate with enthusiasm and have Obama signs in my yard if that is what it comes down to.

This speech is actually a pretty good example of how he plays the game.  He turned what would have been a real albatross for any other politician into an opportunity for a groundbreaking speech on race.  He's getting props across the board for this thing -- "historic speech" is what I'm seeing the most, butUS News and World Reports has a good summary of the conventional wisdom.  

Point being, instead of being a politician about the Wright issue -- equivocating, or waffling, or disavowing his preacher, or hurriedly changing the subject -- which is what Kerry would have done -- Obama chose to deal with it as a leader might, by talking about it in depth and from many different angles.  He attacked a crisis in his candidacy head on and more than salvaged it; according to most, he turned it into a transcendental moment.

Can you imagine Hillary doing something like this?  

PS re: Kerry . . . Kerry wasn't ever as we good as we needed him to be in 2004.  Not media savvy or media ready, not really a communicator so much as a pontificator.  And when we figured that out, i think we all had a secret of moment of "omigod, we can't win with this guy."  We did to him what we did to Al Gore in 2000, which was start demanding he be something he wasn't.  We wanted Kerry to be a pugilist; we wanted Gore to be more earth-toned and relaxed.  Neither of them were what we wanted.

[Conan71]

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

[FOTD]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

Remember kids, arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics...even if you win you're still a retard.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

For those that don't know -- Conan is a Republican hack.

Conan, we Democrats are working things out here but I want you to be assured we are going to whip the pants off of McCain and you too.

No one wants to give Baby Bush a third term.

You are well aware that McCain does not have the support of your core constituents.  Your old coalition of the greedy and the religious nuts has fallen apart.  Amen.

I can't wait for McCain's first temper tantrum.  It ain't going to be pretty.

[pmcalk]

Mike Huckabee defends Wright:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/huckabee-defends-rev-jer_n_92346.html

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

Remember kids, arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics...even if you win you're still a retard.

FOTD, My neighor's daughter competes in the special olympics and I am offended by your unkind remark.  You lecture life-long advocates for minorities and then pull a stunt like this.

[FOTD]

Wrong. Strong supporter of Special Olympics here. I make a point of a much higher bias comment and you try putting me on the defensive. That won't work.

Don't take things personally, it was not directed at your neighbors kid, and see the comment as one calling Conan out for being an imbecile.

Besides, I am one too....nothing wrong with putting one's self down along with the other one's here....we are all guilty of arguing on the internet. But the main thing is to recognize we care enough to be here....just like Ashley.

[FOTD]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=164437&title=baracks-wright-response

Jon Stewart last night.....


"NOT THIS TIME!"

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

For those that don't know -- Conan is a Republican hack.

Conan, we Democrats are working things out here but I want you to be assured we are going to whip the pants off of McCain and you too.

No one wants to give Baby Bush a third term.

You are well aware that McCain does not have the support of your core constituents.  Your old coalition of the greedy and the religious nuts has fallen apart.  Amen.

I can't wait for McCain's first temper tantrum.  It ain't going to be pretty.

Good luck with whipping the pants off McCain.  You guys are going to need to pull the reins in on the Clinton machine before your party self-imolates before the general election.

In case you guys didn't know Hometown is a liberal flack from San Francisco who keeps dumping on Tulsa and Oklahoma in general.

[FOTD]

Way to go Hometown.....

You seem to have gotten a rise out of a local republijerk.[]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Wrong. Strong supporter of Special Olympics here. I make a point of a much higher bias comment and you try putting me on the defensive. That won't work.

Don't take things personally, it was not directed at your neighbors kid, and see the comment as one calling Conan out for being an imbecile.

Besides, I am one too....nothing wrong with putting one's self down along with the other one's here....we are all guilty of arguing on the internet. But the main thing is to recognize we care enough to be here....just like Ashley.

No offense taken you devil.  Imbecile as charged at times, but I think I've called Obama fairly on this one.  I must have hit a nerve or be too far off the mark since you resorted to quasi-name calling instead of a cerebral retort.

I still don't get the attraction to someone so glib as Obama.  I honestly had started to gain some appreciation for him until I saw the way he handled this.  It's pathetic.  

"I didn't know, er um, I never heard that.  Okay I did hear that and it was wrong, sorry, but here we are in the city of brotherly love..."

At some point you need to just accept you backed the wrong horse, you lost, and it's time to move on, FOTD.

In a way I feel sorry for Obama because he's had the misfortune to be opposed by Hillary.  The Clintons are incredibly spiteful people and they think Hillary deserves to be President.  They have a destiny to be the first husband and wife Presidents.

I think this is only the tip of the iceberg on Obama, and the Clintons are going to have a few more serious digs at him prior to the convention.  

Hillary won't be happy unless she leaves with the nomination and #1 on the ticket.  She will make Gore's temper-tantrum in '00 look like a grade school fit if she doesn't get the nomination.

FWIW- I'll vote for the best candidate, I'm not blinded by party affiliation.  I still have not made up my mind where my vote will go for President in November.

[FOTD]

You'll come around.....and vote for the be littler! He's one of us!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080319/pl_nm/usa_politics_dc_46

[we vs us]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

I'm not seeing the double standard you're reaching for.  He was pretty much attacked from every quarter for his association with Wright.  And he went ahead and explained it yesterday. What do you want him to do?  Something specific or just be more sorry?

If we're gonna argue about whether or not his speech was genuine, we'll have to call it here and go have a beer or something, because it was enough for me, though obviously not for you, and he either way he defends himself much better than I could.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by we vs us

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Ah, but this would never, ever fly if it were a white candidate who went to a church headed by an anti-Semite.  He'd have been drummed out of the campaign already- forced to step down.

I fail to see the difference in someone being a member of the Aryan Nation for the last 20 years and claiming suddenly to have not realized the message being thrown out by the leaders was one of hate and intolerance based on race.  Because as we all know, it's just an innocent brotherhood of people of a similar race, right? [B)]

I'm stunned that Obama has prominent Jewish backers.  This "spiritual advisor" of his shares similar views with the Revs. Jack$on and $harpton on Jews.

"I didn't know."  What a great mea culpa.

I'm not seeing the double standard you're reaching for.  He was pretty much attacked from every quarter for his association with Wright.  And he went ahead and explained it yesterday. What do you want him to do?  Something specific or just be more sorry?

If we're gonna argue about whether or not his speech was genuine, we'll have to call it here and go have a beer or something, because it was enough for me, though obviously not for you, and he either way he defends himself much better than I could.

I think it's genuine.  I think he regrets having to respond to crap like this and Rezko, but it's politics and it's a dirty, filthy, nasty business at times.  I guess there's two ways to look at it:

One- He really believes Wright hook, line, and sinker and that's why he's been going there long as he has.

Two- He's selective about which part of Reverand Wright's views he accepts.  I'll buy that.  I attend a progressive church where I don't agree with every view of the pastor (a very controversial figure in Christianity these days- or should I say Churchianity), but there's enough I do like about his Sunday message that I'm more than less a follower, though I can't say I agree with 100% of his philosophies.

That said, Obama did try to pull a blind man on this at first and think it would go away.  He should have known better.  

What's worse is this had been knocking around on Hannity, Savage, and Limbaugh's shows for close to six months, yet he had a deer-in-the-headlight first response to this.  Here's this eloquent speaker, the orator of all orators and he blithered and blundered through it till he'd had time to think and be advised.  We have one of those in office already and don't need another.

I got a better idea Wevus, let's just go have a beer and let the pundits argue on a television screen while we talk about wonderful spring weather in Tulsa and catch a beer buzz.  [8D]

Pick your place and time, I'll even buy, and if the missus has time she's welcome as well.