Hillary has momentum

[pmcalk]

Conan, I have no doubt that democrats will throw dirt, too.  It is politics after all.

As for winning all elections, I am a fan of Bill Clintons, but in fact, Bill Clinton never won his presidency by a majority of Americans.

[rwarn17588]

<conan wrote:

Does anyone know of an election either Clinton has ever lost?

<end clip>

Bill Clinton lost his race for U.S. House of Representatives in 1974, and he also lost his re-election campaign for Arkansas governor in 1980.

So, yes, he/they have been beaten before.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Besides, RM, you know as well as I do that those delegates eventually will be seated at the convention. They'll probably split 'em 50/50 and be done with it, like the GOP did when one of the states broke the rules in a similar fashion.

The GOP simply had different consequences for states that allocated delegates before February. All of those states -- New Hampshire, Wyoming, South Carolina, Michigan, and Florida -- lost half of their national convention delegates. (Iowa hasn't actually allocated any delegates yet.) The states still followed their own rules for allocating the remaining delegates.

rwarn's right -- if you know the rules and you violate them anyway, you pay the consequences. The Oklahoma legislature looked at a January primary, but backed off because leaders of both parties didn't want to lose national convention delegates. We weren't the only state to make that kind of choice. The states that followed the rules ought to shut down any attempt to seat delegates from rule-breaking states.

[RecycleMichael]

The voters in Michigan didn't disobey the rules...a handle of party leaders did.

The national committee wanted to totally control the timing of primaries so they could direct the election and related income. The state committee also did what they thought would benefit them, also party insiders.

The voters had no say, no power to do anything more than to go to the polls with a hope that their actions mattered. If they lose that hope and tell them that their votes do not count, you will lose them in November.

This is a pissing contest between a handful of insiders trying to run elections...insiders that the actual electorate of Michigan never voted for.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Things rolling downhill always gain momentum. []

I gotta say it: she looks just like Amy Poehler doing a spot-on impersonation-of her, no less-on SNL.

[rwarn17588]

<RM wrote:

The voters in Michigan didn't disobey the rules...a handle of party leaders did.

<end clip>

Then fire the party leaders in Michigan. Duh.

[guido911]

Not so much off topic, but 1 in 5 Pennsylvania dems will vote for McCain if their dem candidate does not get the nomination:

http://pawatercooler.com/?p=3655

Not sure if it is Sore Loserman syndrome or that real animosity has resulted from the primary that will effect how people will vote in the general.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The voters in Michigan didn't disobey the rules...a handle of party leaders did.

The national committee wanted to totally control the timing of primaries so they could direct the election and related income. The state committee also did what they thought would benefit them, also party insiders.

The voters had no say, no power to do anything more than to go to the polls with a hope that their actions mattered. If they lose that hope and tell them that their votes do not count, you will lose them in November.

This is a pissing contest between a handful of insiders trying to run elections...insiders that the actual electorate of Michigan never voted for.

The independent voters in Oklahoma didn't disobey the rules either... their party leaders decided that Oklahoma would be a closed primary.

http://www.ok.gov/~elections/voterreg.html

quote:"Oklahoma has a closed primary system. Only voters who are registered members of a recognized political party may vote for the party's candidates in primary and runoff primary elections. Registered Independent voters may be eligible to vote in party's primaries and runoff primaries if authorized by the party."

When I went to my polling place to vote, I saw a twenty-something aged voter turned away.  That voter was a registered independent.

... if Oklahoma had an open primary, Obama would likely have funnelled more resources into this state.  if Oklahoma had an open primary, the state might have received more press coverage and resulted in a tighter race.

So, now the Clinton campaign is blowing smoke indicating that a re-do of the Michigan primary isn't going to be good enough for them.... they need a "closed" primary despite the FACT that the original Michigan contest was an "open" primary...

That, my friend, is changing the rules in the middle....... no wait... changing the rules at the very end in a close contest.

It also violates one of my central tenets... "stupidity should never be rewarded."

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Not so much off topic, but 1 in 5 Pennsylvania dems will vote for McCain if their dem candidate does not get the nomination:

http://pawatercooler.com/?p=3655

Not sure if it is Sore Loserman syndrome or that real animosity has resulted from the primary that will effect how people will vote in the general.

the dems are cooked.

but the repubs aren't much better.

I think Bloomberg will slip in with a unity ticket after the conventions and ride a 3 month wave of popularity and take this thing.  Look at how people have been peaking and waning....about 3 months.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

<RM wrote:

The voters in Michigan didn't disobey the rules...a handle of party leaders did.

<end clip>

Then fire the party leaders in Michigan. Duh.

Not so simple. Did you vote for any of your party officials? Did you help elect your precinct chair? Your county Chair? Your congressional district Chair? Your state chair?

For almost every person you know, the answer is no. How do they fire them if they don't attend precinct/county/state party meetings?

Everyone shouldn't be expected to attend all those meetings, but I expect every American who are able to vote for President.

[RecycleMichael]

These two have been running for President for more than six months now (probably more like twelve or more). Hillary was ahead for the longest time and then Obama was ahead. Now Hillary has caught up and if you believe Gallup Poll, is back ahead.

Obama was only ahead for six weeks. It just seemed like a lot because it is so fresh in our memories. After Pennsylvania votes, Hillary will be ahead to stay on every national poll.

[pmcalk]

Goodness, RM, that sounds desparate--Clinton has been ahead longer, therefore she's more deserving?  The first election which Obama won was on January 3.  Within a month, Obama erased a double digit lead by Clinton and held that until one poll yesterday had him down by 5% (outside the 3% margin of error, but well within the 8% margin of refused/undecided).  They may have been campaigning for 6 months, but no one was really paying attention until January.

[USRufnex]

per usual... RM spinning for hillary... worthy of that snake-oil salesman, James Carville...

RM-- "These two have been running for President for more than six months now (probably more like twelve or more). Hillary was ahead for the longest time..."

Sorry, but HC had more name recognition than Obama and was presenting herself as the presumptive nominee... we have these things called primaries and caucuses, when people actually vote... so, when voters get to know Barack Obama, HC's twenty point leads mysteriously evaporate...

So no... it doesn't matter what you did in the preseason before any of the games "counted."

Hillary and Co. is trying to STEAL a nomination process that has largely been settled.  No matter what your spin goes with (even if she wins the popular vote), this is about 50 separate elections, not a nationwide primary (plus Guam, PR, etc).  Those are the rules.  They were the rules last year, and they are the rules this year.

HC is trying to weasel her way into the nomination "by any means necessary."  She will not win the delegate count.  She needed to win Texas and Ohio by 20% each to dent Obama's lead... she didn't.

http://hillaryclinton.wordpress.com/2008/03/

It took me 6 years of Bill to start feeling "Clinton fatigue".... it's only taken me the last 6 weeks of Hillary's "kitchen sink" strategy for me to never want to vote for a Clinton again....

Feb. 21.... Hillary Clinton tells America how "honored" she is to be on the same stage as Barack Obama at the end of their televised debate.

Feb. 23.... "Shame on you, Barack Obama, meet me in Ohio, and let's have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign."

"Enough with the speeches and the big rallies and then using tactics right out of Karl Rove's playbook"

Feb. 24.... "Now, I could stand up here and say, 'Let's just get everybody together. Let's get unified. The sky will open. The light will come down. Celestial choirs will be singing, and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect."

----- I want to vote for a principled statesman (or stateswoman)... not a condescending, two-faced, finger-in-the-wind poll driven, polarizing candidate like Hillary Clinton....

I don't want to choose between Hillary and her guaranteed Republican house and senate versus McCain, who will likely have a Dem house and senate...

[FOTD]

Yeh, keep it up RM! You're making this devil look good.....

[FOTD]

NM Gov. Bill Richardson endorsing Obama ...

There goes the moe......