Local News Outdoes Itself... again

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
Not counting the fact, even if it is private, many of those people will be going to events downtown.

wow, now there is another big assumption.  I park in one of those private garages and I would -not- be staying downtown to go to these events.

I said "many" not "all."

I'm pretty sure wherever you go, few follow.

[PonderInc]

From the "Downtown Linkage Report and Master Plan" of 2005:
"Currently, the equivalent of 73 blocks--or roughly 1/3 of the available land in Downtown Tulsa--is used as commercial surface parking."

There is no shortage of parking in downtown.  There is a shortage of buildings in downtown Tulsa.  

There are acres of parking lots all over the area.  The easy solution for the arena will be to run shuttles every few minutes from various lots in and around downtown.  It would probably be faster to jump in a shuttle than if you parked in a nearby garage and had to wait for the bottleneck to clear out.  Maybe charge a buck for the shuttle vs. $10 for the parking nearby....problem solved.

Other entertainment districts might want to sponsor their own shuttles (from Brookside, Cherry Street, Blue Dome, Brady...) to encourage people to make an evening of the event.  Dining before, drinks after, park for free, get dropped off at the door. (Blue shuttles take you to the Blue Dome district, red shuttles take you to Cherry Street, tie-dyed shuttles take you to Brookside...)

This is NOT going to be a big deal.  It's just life in the big city.

(I remember reading about a huge mall being built in the San Francisco area that was intentionally built without a single parking lot.  They located it next to a rapid transit platform and a bus stop, and expected folks to take the train or the bus to get there.  Who wouldn't prefer jumping off a train within steps of your destination...rather than having to hoof it across a depressing half mile of asphalt parking?)

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc
(I remember reading about a huge mall being built in the San Francisco area that was intentionally built without a single parking lot.  They located it next to a rapid transit platform and a bus stop, and expected folks to take the train or the bus to get there.  Who wouldn't prefer jumping off a train within steps of your destination...rather than having to hoof it across a depressing half mile of asphalt parking?)

Carrying packages on those trains and busses would eventually piss me off.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all about as little surface parking as possible.  I've been on the metro with too many bags and not enough seats...it can frustrate you.

[joiei]

I think they are talking about this shopping center that was built in an existing building.  The original store was the Emporium located on  Market Street, I used to shop there.  They didn't tear down anything or level anything to make this.  They reused an existing building that was originally one store.  The Bart stop is right outside on the corner.  The busses all stop right outside on Market street.  This is nothing like building a Woodland Hills without parking.  This place is in downtown San Francisco.  Tulsa is no where as urban as San Francisco.  Please, before using examples, at least check them out.  Otherwise you are just spreading rumors and inuendo with no knowledge of the truth.  Bunch of frigging republicans.

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum

i don't believe there is any exaggeration. Those lots that are currently private will be open and charging 5 - 8 dollars to park on nights of events just like they do in every other city in the country. parking is definitely a non issue.

Just like they do over by the PAC during any event that takes place there,

[tulsa1603]

I had a fun day at work today.  Some co-workers were complaining about downtown parking, so I challenged them on it. On said he had heard there were "ONLY 9,000 spaces within 15 minutes of the arena", and sicne the arena holds 18,000 so how would that work?  I asked him how many events he went to by himself one car per person.  Then he complained about the 15 minute walk.  I asked him how many college football games, basketball games, or any other events he had been to where you had front door parking.  Then he said that 15 minutes walking downtown was "unsafe" - I asked him to show me crime statistics - of course he had none.

Time to keep challenging people on this stuff.

[booWorld]

^ Many of these complaints boil down to perceptions.  My guess is that most Tulsans (including myself) perceive the area near the arena as pedestrian-unfriendly.  Walking around that rather placeless place (which I do often) is not a pleasant experience.

"I walk this empty street - on the boulevard of broken dreams...."

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

^ Many of these complaints boil down to perceptions.  My guess is that most Tulsans (including myself) perceive the area near the arena as pedestrian-unfriendly.  Walking around that rather placeless place (which I do often) is not a pleasant experience.

"I walk this empty street - on the boulevard of broken dreams...."

Just as I perceive hiking to my car in the parking lot at Woodland Hills to be not a pleasant experience.  The last two times I was there I was hit up for spare change when walking to my car.

[booWorld]

It's been years since I've gone to Woodland Hills Mall.  I don't remember the parking lot there being a particularly pleasant place for pedestrians.

Neither is downtown Tulsa in the vicinity of the new arena.  It's a harsh urban environment.    

"I walk this empty street - on the boulevard of broken dreams...."

[TheArtist]

I just think the people in this city have a thing against walking period. The Mayor or other city leaders could mitigate by default the "not enough parking downtown" by encouraging people to walk and bike more.

Change attitudes by having public service announcements in tv the news, papers, etc. and have the focus be on Health. Say how walking is good for you, good for the health of the people in our city. State some statistics about how unhealthy we are. Then give examples on how you can improve your health by, taking the stairs, parking at the grocery store or mall further away from the stores, taka a walking break instead of a coffee break. Every extra few steps count towards you and your family having a better, healthier, happier life.  Hand out pamphlets in the schools to the kids. Have them take them home to the parents. Billboards, all kinds of other ideas. Mass Transit System called "The Tulsa Ground" "Everybody is using it []"  

By doing that you will as a side effect get rid of a lot of that grumbling about downtown parking. And you may also lead people to becoming more aware of their walking environment and how its important for development to be pedestrian friendly. Other cities and their residents have more of this attitude. Its up to us and our leaders to help make an attitude shift.

http://www.commuterpage.com/walk/about/

[sgrizzle]

I've been trying to walk more but you need hiking boots and spelunking gear to walk around downtown.

[booWorld]

^ That's part of the problem.  The super-blocks are overwhelming.  Most of the shade trees have been removed.  Many of the buildings have been removed.

Many of the older concrete sidewalks have been removed and replaced with rough concrete unit pavers.  It's not as comfortable to walk on the unit pavers as it is to walk on good concrete sidewalks.  We're actually making the downtown less walkable by forcing those cute faux brick patterns and glaring street lamps onto our streetscapes.

"I walk this empty street -- on the boulevard of broken dreams..."  

[custosnox]

Makes me think of a comment of a friend of mine several years ago.  We were on the subject of meeting women and, with him spending time in places like florida, he said it makes it hard because this is a "driving city".  Makes me wonder if we would become more sociable in an enviroment where we passed each other with only air between us, instead of steel and glass.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

Makes me think of a comment of a friend of mine several years ago.  We were on the subject of meeting women and, with him spending time in places like florida, he said it makes it hard because this is a "driving city".  Makes me wonder if we would become more sociable in an enviroment where we passed each other with only air between us, instead of steel and glass.

I'd have to overcome the "don't make eye contact" habit I developed in the Northeast.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

Makes me think of a comment of a friend of mine several years ago.  We were on the subject of meeting women and, with him spending time in places like florida, he said it makes it hard because this is a "driving city".  Makes me wonder if we would become more sociable in an enviroment where we passed each other with only air between us, instead of steel and glass.

We had a great place for socializing downtown at 5th & Main.  We ripped it all out and replaced it with a traffic circle and a small fountain.  The shade trees are gone.  The big participatory fountain is gone.  

"I walk this empty street -- on the boulevard of broken dreams...."