Cherry Street Lofts (for real.... honest)

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Bud, you got an attitude problem.

" I was treated with extreme rudeness by the TMAPC and by INCOG staff. Not all of them behaved rudely, but those who did do not deserve my respect. I'm paying their salaries. I expect better treatment than I received. The last time I checked, I had title to my property, not INCOG."

That kind of snark crap usually elicits negative responses from government employees or anyone who carries the burden of dealing with the often arrogant public. I'm guessing you were treated with the same attitude you brought.

Wrong again, waterboy.  I was minding my own business.  INCOG staff initiated the process, not I.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Bud, you got an attitude problem.

" I was treated with extreme rudeness by the TMAPC and by INCOG staff. Not all of them behaved rudely, but those who did do not deserve my respect. I'm paying their salaries. I expect better treatment than I received. The last time I checked, I had title to my property, not INCOG."

That kind of snark crap usually elicits negative responses from government employees or anyone who carries the burden of dealing with the often arrogant public. I'm guessing you were treated with the same attitude you brought.

Wrong again, waterboy.  I was minding my own business.  INCOG staff initiated the process, not I.

You do seem to love that phrase. How about this one, "They started it Mommy. I didn't do nothin."

Steve, out.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Bud, you got an attitude problem.

" I was treated with extreme rudeness by the TMAPC and by INCOG staff. Not all of them behaved rudely, but those who did do not deserve my respect. I'm paying their salaries. I expect better treatment than I received. The last time I checked, I had title to my property, not INCOG."

That kind of snark crap usually elicits negative responses from government employees or anyone who carries the burden of dealing with the often arrogant public. I'm guessing you were treated with the same attitude you brought.

Wrong again, waterboy.  I was minding my own business.  INCOG staff initiated the process, not I.

You do seem to love that phrase. How about this one, "They started it Mommy. I didn't do nothin."

Steve, out.

Mommy wasn't involved.  I was there through the entire process.  I was happy with things as they were.  The INCOG people evidently were not.  They approached me with an attitute of arrogance to initiate something I didn't want.

Think about something you've worked very hard to obtain.  Think about a situation where you've done your homework to the best of your ability.  Think about how you'd feel if 91% of what you'd worked so hard to achieve was taken from you by someone arrogant enough to think they knew that it was best to take 91% of your stuff while allowing someone else 60 feet away to keep all of theirs.

In looking over the posts on this topic, I'd say that you and I are both concerned about the changes happening in the Cherry Street area.  I've responded to you because you suggested that I consider moving elsewhere.  I'm not sure how my moving away from Tulsa would help or hinder Cherry Street development, but for some reason you found the suggestion to be topical.

I'm not sure if you and I have ever met in person, but you seem to presume to know quite a bit about me -- at least in terms of what happened between me and INCOG.  I know what happened, because I was there.  Perhaps you were there also.  I don't know.  But whether you were there or not, what does your opinion of my attitude have to do with TheArtist's photographs of Cherry Street development?  Do you think it's germane?  (For real? ...  Honest?)

"But Mommy, waterboy started it...."  

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Bud, you got an attitude problem.

" I was treated with extreme rudeness by the TMAPC and by INCOG staff. Not all of them behaved rudely, but those who did do not deserve my respect. I'm paying their salaries. I expect better treatment than I received. The last time I checked, I had title to my property, not INCOG."

That kind of snark crap usually elicits negative responses from government employees or anyone who carries the burden of dealing with the often arrogant public. I'm guessing you were treated with the same attitude you brought.

Wrong again, waterboy.  I was minding my own business.  INCOG staff initiated the process, not I.

You do seem to love that phrase. How about this one, "They started it Mommy. I didn't do nothin."

Steve, out.

Mommy wasn't involved.  I was there through the entire process.  I was happy with things as they were.  The INCOG people evidently were not.  They approached me with an attitute of arrogance to initiate something I didn't want.

Think about something you've worked very hard to obtain.  Think about a situation where you've done your homework to the best of your ability.  Think about how you'd feel if 91% of what you'd worked so hard to achieve was taken from you by someone arrogant enough to think they knew that it was best to take 91% of your stuff while allowing someone else 60 feet away to keep all of theirs.

In looking over the posts on this topic, I'd say that you and I are both concerned about the changes happening in the Cherry Street area.  I've responded to you because you suggested that I consider moving elsewhere.  I'm not sure how my moving away from Tulsa would help or hinder Cherry Street development, but for some reason you found the suggestion to be topical.

I'm not sure if you and I have ever met in person, but you seem to presume to know quite a bit about me -- at least in terms of what happened between me and INCOG.  I know what happened, because I was there.  Perhaps you were there also.  I don't know.  But whether you were there or not, what does your opinion of my attitude have to do with TheArtist's photographs of Cherry Street development?  Do you think it's germane?  (For real? ...  Honest?)

"But Mommy, waterboy started it...."  

Talk about presumptive. You know nothing about me or my history with local bureaucracy. I at least have followed your travails through your posts here whereas you noted in another thread that i had time to post 2.4 times per day but apparently have learned nothing else about me. I have nothing to do with INCOG, TMAPC or anything else important, though I know a couple people in those organizations by name. They are not rude, discourteous or arrogant in nature from my observation.

You seem like a pretty well informed, studious analyst of development.  Oddly, we have had the same experience with local govt. only in different areas. I didn't lose 91% of everything I worked for....I lost 100% of my efforts that took me years to plan and all of my wealth and had to file personal bankruptcy because of the legal misconduct of representatives of our bureaucracy. Ultimately I had to face up to my own ineptness at understanding and dealing with powerful government leaders. I will do better next time.

I don't know the details of your project but I do empathize with you.  Threads evolve, just like Cherry Street. Good luck to you.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Talk about presumptive. You know nothing about me or my history with local bureaucracy. I at least have followed your travails through your posts here whereas you noted in another thread that i had time to post 2.4 times per day but apparently have learned nothing else about me. I have nothing to do with INCOG, TMAPC or anything else important, though I know a couple people in those organizations by name. They are not rude, discourteous or arrogant in nature from my observation.

You seem like a pretty well informed, studious analyst of development.  Oddly, we have had the same experience with local govt. only in different areas. I didn't lose 91% of everything I worked for....I lost 100% of my efforts that took me years to plan and all of my wealth and had to file personal bankruptcy because of the legal misconduct of representatives of our bureaucracy. Ultimately I had to face up to my own ineptness at understanding and dealing with powerful government leaders. I will do better next time.

I don't know the details of your project but I do empathize with you.  Threads evolve, just like Cherry Street. Good luck to you.

People evolve, also.  Good luck to you, too.

I'm sorry that I mentioned your post frequency on another thread and hit a raw nerve.  The forum needs people to post and discuss, or else there wouldn't be a forum.  I noticed a couple of your posts on this thread directed toward me.  One began with "Boo, consider moving" and another with "Screw you."  

Guess what?  I'll take your word that you lost everything as a result of misconduct by representatives of a government bureaucracy even though I don't know the specifics of your situation.

Something similar happened to me.  My property rights were reduced by 91%, not 100%.  I did not instigate the matter.  INCOG did.  I was extremely naive.  I'm learning, also.  One thing I decided to do was to try and help change Tulsa's zoning for the better.

I know some good and helpful people who work at INCOG.  I've known some good Planning Commissioners, also.  But the people who came after me in an effort to get my property re-zoned against my wishes are not good public servants, IMO.  They approached me with an arrogant attitude and treated me rudely.  They did not follow the guidelines of the Comprehensive Plan.

I'm not really very familiar with the arcane details of Tulsa's zoning code.  My guess is that most of those new developments which some of us find offensive, ugly, cheap-looking, or character-destroying meet all or most of the zoning requirements for their district.  Maybe not.  I could be wrong.  I'm not an expert on it.  I'm merely a single person in the vastness of sprawling Tulsa who is trying to make things better.

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


Most of them do not look to have the best exterior materials. Except for the first 2. However, thats an easy upgrade in time if needed and the property values go up to make it worth it. Hopefully if this area truly settles in and shows its able to attract the kind of people willing to pay for higher quality construction, more of the buildings in the future will be of a higher quality. ( but here again, we dont have any rules that tell property owners that they have to, or cant, use certain materials.) And yes, most new styles are popular for a time, then get ugly, then become retro, then either get preserved or torn down.  Some of these will last, some will not. And then something else will get put in their place. Some bungalos will last and survive, some will not (especially in this particular area lol).

One thing that interesting to consider is where this new development is actually happening, or where its NOT happening. All of these new places are on the North side of Cherry Street "except for the one nearer downtown".  I dont mind that strip between the highway and Cherry street being done like this. I can see most of the homes in that strip being turned into these new developments and creating a "contiguous" contained development of a mix of new and older apartment buildings. It works for me. However... I dont think I would like it so much if they started randomly putting in these developments on the South side of Cherry Street. Within the first block, perhaps, because there are already a number of apartment buildings scattered there already. But if they were mixed in further in the neighborhood.... I dont think it would work. Not only for the neighborhood, but also for the developers themselves. Part of the attraction of the North side is that you do have a contained area. A lot of these new buildings can be built in that contained area to create a unique neighborhood thats attractive to people who want to live, not just in a new, hip designed, building, but  around lots of other similar people in an environment thats new and "hip". There is a Community and lifestyle aspect that makes it desirable to have lots of these together in one spot.

Perhaps instead of moving to the South of Cherry Street we will begin to see more of the "modern yp" type developments go downtown. All we need is that critical mass of interest. If we were to get a baseball stadium there with a few more things. And I think there are a couple new contemporary loft homes going in along the east end. Then you may see the gravity of interest for this type of living shift towards downtown. But there has to be something else down in that area to make it attracive.

Interestingly enough, It seems that one way to preserve the character of some areas would be to create desirable areas in other locations in the city. Like along the river. If the Tulsa Landing development had gone in I bet you would have seen new development go in that neighborhood behind it. If the Pearl District would get funded you would likely see these new types of developments go in along the 6th street corridor. If the East End were to pick up then more condos and loft apartments would go in that area. There is only so much market for the "contemporary loft" type living in Tulsa and that market will only grow so much in the future regardless of what happens. If the only place thats currently desirable for that type of development is along Cherry Street, then thats where its going to go. So for those of you who complain about spending any money on getting new development areas started, then complain about the older attractive areas being torn up.... Put that thought into your equations.

My son was in town, so we drove through today.  The siding is already buckling and coming off of this one.



And with the misty rain, we noticed drainage problems already developing with this one.




These just look like tenements with garages.




I hate to be overly critical, but there is nothing lasting about this stuff!  Must be a young designer trying to make his mark!  

I admit, I liked some of these when they were just designs and sketches, but now that I see them built, they just look cheap.

Somebody turn this bus around before we scorch all of cherry street with this stuff!

The problem is the demographics.  I'm an architect (not the one on these projects), and clients always want new modern houses, but they don't want to pay for the next step in quality.  Tulsa is a very difficult market to make money in residential construction - the profit margins are absolutely tiny.  I honestly don't think that the materials on these projects are unsuitable - in fact, that siding that is buckling in the first photo appears to be Hardiplank, which is actually concrete board.  It will last much longer than real wood siding.  Now, as to why it's buckling is anyone's guess, but I'd guess improper installation before doubting the quality of the material.  And every project, from the $70,000 spec house in Coweta to the $2,000,000 custom in Jenks has quality issues when they are first completed.  

It's easy for everyone on this forum to sit in judgement, but if these projects had nicer materials and cost 20% more because of it, many would complain that the costs were out of reach for the average Tulsan.  I give kudos to the architect and developers for at least DOING something instead of sitting around complaining about how nothing ever happens in Tulsa.  It's not a perfect process and never will be.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

It's easy for everyone on this forum to sit in judgement, but if these projects had nicer materials and cost 20% more because of it, many would complain that the costs were out of reach for the average Tulsan.  I give kudos to the architect and developers for at least DOING something instead of sitting around complaining about how nothing ever happens in Tulsa.  It's not a perfect process and never will be.

Good points, tulsa1603.  One of my main concerns with some of these projects is that they don't face the street.  Even the end units which could have more "street-friendly" facades and fenestration don't.

And it is amazing how some people moan on this forum about how we don't have walkable neighborhoods, or mass transit, or hip restaurants, or whatever -- but don't actually propose any improvements themselves.  It seems as though they only want to argue and complain.  It's also interesting how some of us actually do propose change (as I have with zoning issues) and then get eviscerated in public meetings or have our suggestions called unrealistic B.S. on this forum.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

It's easy for everyone on this forum to sit in judgement, but if these projects had nicer materials and cost 20% more because of it, many would complain that the costs were out of reach for the average Tulsan.  I give kudos to the architect and developers for at least DOING something instead of sitting around complaining about how nothing ever happens in Tulsa.  It's not a perfect process and never will be.

Good points, tulsa1603.  One of my main concerns with some of these projects is that they don't face the street.  Even the end units which could have more "street-friendly" facades and fenestration don't.

And it is amazing how some people moan on this forum about how we don't have walkable neighborhoods, or mass transit, or hip restaurants, or whatever -- but don't actually propose any improvements themselves.  It seems as though they only want to argue and complain.  It's also interesting how some of us actually do propose change (as I have with zoning issues) and then get eviscerated in public meetings or have our suggestions called unrealistic B.S. on this forum.

I too would prefer street facing units or buildings. But again the price points may be easier to attain per property if you get Six, 2 or 3 story units on a lot built in this manner. The compromise position may be to say,,, lets make sure the sides facing the streets are pedestrian friendly. Some of the side facing units are just as street friendly as some of the old street facing apartments, some are horrible in that respect.

Often you have to "edge people along" get compromise changes that go in your directon, versus like some tried to go for an extreme moratorium etc. Plus its often not what you want, its how you put it and approach the problem. You have to take as many peoples opinions into consideration as possible. And just keep on plugging. I love the idea of Form Based Codes for instance. That alone in this area would mitigate a lot of peoples concerns with these developments (other than the style issue).

As for these "self imposed guidelines" you keep bringing up.... Might as well be no guidelines. I can add more self imposed guidelines on my property right now if I want. Who couldn't. There certainly doesnt need to be a law allowing it lol. Then the next person who owns my property can "self impose" their own and completely do away with the ideas I had. Again, "self imposed" might as well be NO guidelines, other than what already exists.

[joiei]

quote:Originally posted by booWorld
It seems as though they only want to argue and complain.  

BINGO

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Often you have to "edge people along" get compromise changes that go in your directon, versus like some tried to go for an extreme moratorium etc. Plus its often not what you want, its how you put it and approach the problem. You have to take as many peoples opinions into consideration as possible. And just keep on plugging. I love the idea of Form Based Codes for instance. That alone in this area would mitigate a lot of peoples concerns with these developments (other than the style issue).

As for these "self imposed guidelines" you keep bringing up.... Might as well be no guidelines. I can add more self imposed guidelines on my property right now if I want. Who couldn't. There certainly doesnt need to be a law allowing it lol. Then the next person who owns my property can "self impose" their own and completely do away with the ideas I had. Again, "self imposed" might as well be NO guidelines, other than what already exists.

I think you might misunderstand what I mean by self-imposed guidelines.  While I would much prefer form based codes, Neighborhood Conservation Districts (NCDs) could afford some protection to some neighborhoods which have no protection now.  The concept of NCD overlay districts has been brought up, discussed, and tabled for years in Tulsa.  The Tulsa World is obviously against NCDs.  

Here's something I think could work:

Take an area such as 38th Street just west of Lewis.  Most property owners along that street are upset about Enterline's lot splits and teardowns on their street.  I think they had restrictive covenants at one time which required certain setbacks and lot sizes, but I understand those covenants have either expired or are now nearly impossible to enforce.  The zoning designation has changed a time or two, which allowed the lots to be legally split.  Under the current draft NCD ordinance, there aren't enough parcels on that block of 38th Street to establish a NCD.  Perhaps the zoning district requires a minimum setback from the street of 30 feet, but let's assume all the existing houses (except for the Enterline development) are set back 50 feet from the street.  I don't know the actual numbers.  This is just an example.  Let's say all of the property owners along that block except for Enterline would like to set up NCD guidelines which in effect re-establish the restrictive covenants they had originally when their subdivision was built.  I would like the NCD draft ordinance to be revised so that those who wanted to impose restrictions on themselves could have a way of doing so.  My guess is that the owners of the Enterline properties might not want to be included.  If so, fine.  Then leave them out of it.  Those properties most likely wouldn't meet the NCD guidelines anyway, and at this point they are probably a lost cause.

The argument here is about property rights.  It's one thing for property owners to agree to impose restrictions on their own property.  I don't think there would be much opposition over that.  The opposition stems from those who fear or simply don't desire additional zoning restrictions overlaid on their property by others.  To move this draft ordinance forward quickly, I think it would be wise to change the initiation process to 100% agreement by the property owners themselves.  It would make the process so much easier and faster because it would eliminate all or most opposition about a proposed NCD's boundaries or its guidelines.  

I think there are some neighborhoods of a certain character or feel to them such Lortondale which would very rapily establish an NCD if the mechanism allowing them to do so were in place.  There might be a few hold-outs, and I'd just let them go.  My guess is that there would be a strong desire for participation from those who own property toward the middle of a proposed NCD, and less desire from those who own property near the proposed edge (depending on the abutting neighborhoods).

The proposed NCD ordinance is a reaction to teardowns, McMansions, and other incompatible infill.  Those issues aren't going away.  But neither is the issue about private property rights.

[booWorld]

quote:Screw you...And yes smartypants, homes have been in the near downtown area since 1907. You pointed that out to me in a previous post.

I think someone else might have pointed that out.  I mentioned a house which was built downtown in the 1880s and then moved to my neighborhood around 1909 (before it was developed as a neighborhood).  My neighborhood dates mostly from the late 1910s and the 1920s.  I think the Cherry Street area was developed around the same time, but I'm not sure.  Houses from 1907 near downtown might exist, but I don't know of many offhand, and I wouldn't be able to point them out.  I think carltonplace or Rico might have pointed to some examples of houses dating from 1907, but again I'm not certain.  I think they know more about historic houses than I do.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist


Most of them do not look to have the best exterior materials. Except for the first 2. However, thats an easy upgrade in time if needed and the property values go up to make it worth it. Hopefully if this area truly settles in and shows its able to attract the kind of people willing to pay for higher quality construction, more of the buildings in the future will be of a higher quality. ( but here again, we dont have any rules that tell property owners that they have to, or cant, use certain materials.) And yes, most new styles are popular for a time, then get ugly, then become retro, then either get preserved or torn down.  Some of these will last, some will not. And then something else will get put in their place. Some bungalos will last and survive, some will not (especially in this particular area lol).

One thing that interesting to consider is where this new development is actually happening, or where its NOT happening. All of these new places are on the North side of Cherry Street "except for the one nearer downtown".  I dont mind that strip between the highway and Cherry street being done like this. I can see most of the homes in that strip being turned into these new developments and creating a "contiguous" contained development of a mix of new and older apartment buildings. It works for me. However... I dont think I would like it so much if they started randomly putting in these developments on the South side of Cherry Street. Within the first block, perhaps, because there are already a number of apartment buildings scattered there already. But if they were mixed in further in the neighborhood.... I dont think it would work. Not only for the neighborhood, but also for the developers themselves. Part of the attraction of the North side is that you do have a contained area. A lot of these new buildings can be built in that contained area to create a unique neighborhood thats attractive to people who want to live, not just in a new, hip designed, building, but  around lots of other similar people in an environment thats new and "hip". There is a Community and lifestyle aspect that makes it desirable to have lots of these together in one spot.

Perhaps instead of moving to the South of Cherry Street we will begin to see more of the "modern yp" type developments go downtown. All we need is that critical mass of interest. If we were to get a baseball stadium there with a few more things. And I think there are a couple new contemporary loft homes going in along the east end. Then you may see the gravity of interest for this type of living shift towards downtown. But there has to be something else down in that area to make it attracive.

Interestingly enough, It seems that one way to preserve the character of some areas would be to create desirable areas in other locations in the city. Like along the river. If the Tulsa Landing development had gone in I bet you would have seen new development go in that neighborhood behind it. If the Pearl District would get funded you would likely see these new types of developments go in along the 6th street corridor. If the East End were to pick up then more condos and loft apartments would go in that area. There is only so much market for the "contemporary loft" type living in Tulsa and that market will only grow so much in the future regardless of what happens. If the only place thats currently desirable for that type of development is along Cherry Street, then thats where its going to go. So for those of you who complain about spending any money on getting new development areas started, then complain about the older attractive areas being torn up.... Put that thought into your equations.

My son was in town, so we drove through today.  The siding is already buckling and coming off of this one.



And with the misty rain, we noticed drainage problems already developing with this one.




These just look like tenements with garages.




I hate to be overly critical, but there is nothing lasting about this stuff!  Must be a young designer trying to make his mark!  

I admit, I liked some of these when they were just designs and sketches, but now that I see them built, they just look cheap.

Somebody turn this bus around before we scorch all of cherry street with this stuff!

The problem is the demographics.  I'm an architect (not the one on these projects), and clients always want new modern houses, but they don't want to pay for the next step in quality.  Tulsa is a very difficult market to make money in residential construction - the profit margins are absolutely tiny.  I honestly don't think that the materials on these projects are unsuitable - in fact, that siding that is buckling in the first photo appears to be Hardiplank, which is actually concrete board.  It will last much longer than real wood siding.  Now, as to why it's buckling is anyone's guess, but I'd guess improper installation before doubting the quality of the material.  And every project, from the $70,000 spec house in Coweta to the $2,000,000 custom in Jenks has quality issues when they are first completed.  

It's easy for everyone on this forum to sit in judgement, but if these projects had nicer materials and cost 20% more because of it, many would complain that the costs were out of reach for the average Tulsan.  I give kudos to the architect and developers for at least DOING something instead of sitting around complaining about how nothing ever happens in Tulsa.  It's not a perfect process and never will be.

I don't have a problem with small streets and people cutting new ones through. The common thread in all these houses that is causing the problem, is garages. If you could get rid of those, these houses would look ten times better. I think its great the first house has the garage to the rear, that way we can enjoy its facade rather than have to stair at its double garage door. It would also mean that these new streets could have more planting and look much nicer.

[Gaspar]

^ I agree. I think if the neighborhood brought in a professional landscape architect to draw up a street plan for the whole neighborhood, it would be much more appealing.  Some good organic design would break up the stark, sharp lines of some of the designs.

With all of the straight lines and abrupt edges, you would want to choose some large leaf trees, and contorted shapes.  I think the use of ornamental grass and wispy plantings is only going to magnify the hard structures (strictly from a designer's opinion).

Plants I would stay away from for this neighborhood:
Large Ornamental Grasses
Holly's
Boxwoods
Any Pine

Plants that would "cozy up" the hood:
Jap Maple
Mimosa
Plumb
Flowreing crab
Hydrangias
Hostas
Heuchera
Redbuds (forest panzy!)
Willow (corkscrew)
Sedums
English ivy (caution around EFIS and siding!)
Strawberry (as a bedding plant)
Golden Vicory Privit (as a free-form accent shrub)

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Gaspar

^ I agree. I think if the neighborhood brought in a professional landscape architect to draw up a street plan for the whole neighborhood, it would be much more appealing.  Some good organic design would break up the stark, sharp lines of some of the designs.

With all of the straight lines and abrupt edges, you would want to choose some large leaf trees, and contorted shapes.  I think the use of ornamental grass and wispy plantings is only going to magnify the hard structures (strictly from a designer's opinion).

Plants I would stay away from for this neighborhood:
Large Ornamental Grasses
Holly's
Boxwoods
Any Pine

Plants that would "cozy up" the hood:
Jap Maple
Mimosa
Plumb
Flowreing crab
Hydrangias
Hostas
Heuchera
Redbuds (forest panzy!)
Willow (corkscrew)
Sedums
English ivy (caution around EFIS and siding!)
Strawberry (as a bedding plant)
Golden Vicory Privit (as a free-form accent shrub)

Thanks for that Gaspar.

If anyone is interested in streets, here is a link for a government paper (not US gov) called Manual for Streets which sets out best practice, guidance and the requirements that all new streets should meet.

Manual for Streets

[izmophonik]

I think these structures are great.  I live 2 blocks south of the Full Moon.  Some of the houses they took over were in bad shape and with seemingly no attempt to revive them.  Good for metro lofts.  Cherry Street needs more walking traffic and this will help.  Now, if they could just get some street lights on cherry.